My opinion about Bangel/Spuffy

[Paulrina]

There's a lot of Bangel VS Spuffy debates last 20 years and I simply don't understand how Bangel shippers can trash Spuffy shippers(or opposite)

I mean, either you're okay with Buffy being with both of them (acknowledging that both relationships were damaging for her), either she should be with none of them.

They're both vampires, they both killed thousands of people, they both raped people, they both tortured people, they were both selfish, they both have been soulless then ensouled, they both hurt Buffy and her friends, they both loved her and cared for her, they both didn't fit in her human life, they both couldn't offer her real happiness and an actual future.

You can ship Bangel/Spuffy because You can but trying to justify that one relationship was actually better for Buffy than the other is just so hypocritical. So please could we stop the hypocrisy for once and acknowledge that yes we are biased and the ship we prefer (if we prefer a ship) is not better than the other? Both are flawed, painful and unhealthy for Buffy in the end. For all that they're both entertaining to watch, it's only television. And if you really can't stand one of this ships, then be consistent and condemn the other one too instead of criticizing it in bad faith.I don't mean that people should root for both ships. I just mean that if people root for a ship with a vampire, it's pretty hypocritical to condemn the other vampire ship. If a vampire ship is something acceptable in one's mind, both ships should be. And of course people can prefer whatever ship they want among them, it's just a matter of being consistent

And Please don't start with the Fuffy, Buffy has never had any romantic feelings for Faith whatsoever and even if it were the case, come on, would that be remotely healthy?

I am personally team cookie dough

 

[Ethan Reigns]

From what you are saying, we could define Critical Ship Theory. "Everyone is biased except those who agree with me." And as a sop to postmodernism, everyone who favours a given ship is equal and interchangeable. Good to see that you have seen through this.

I also believe that as far as ships go, Buffy has not met anyone that she would want who should be her partner for life. She finally got over friendzoning Xander in the comics only to find Xander made a more rational choice in Dawn. He would have been a good choice for Buffy all along.

 

[Paulrina]

I also believe that as far as ships go, Buffy has not met anyone that she would want who should be her partner for life.

I agree with you actually.She is a cookie dough

 

[burrunjor]

From what you are saying, we could define Critical Ship Theory. "Everyone is biased except those who agree with me." And as a sop to postmodernism, everyone who favours a given ship is equal and interchangeable. Good to see that you have seen through this.

I get what you mean, but at the same time I also think people are too quick to assume that someone might be biased for a ship because they prefer a certain character.

For instance people have accused me of just being biased for Bangel because apparently I don't like Spike. Nothing could be further from the truth. I actually prefer Spike to Angel as a character, have met James Marsters, shook his hand LOL.

I just think Bangel was a better story as it led to Angelus being unleashed, came when the show was at its creative peak (seasons 1-3) and involved all the other characters, like Giles and Jenny, Willow learning the magic, even Xander. They all got chances to shine in that story. Added to that it felt more natural as Angel was created to be a love interest, there were proper story reasons for why he was nice and loving and other vamps weren't etc.

Spuffy to me was just a retread of Angel, coming when the show was on the way out in S6 and 7 and came over as more fanficcy the way it either tossed aside or wrote out other characters and had to rewrite lore and other things to make it fit.

Again just my opinion, but as you can see it's not a case of "I'm just team Angel." I'd actually like to think I have overcome my biases for preferring Spike as a character in seeing that he just didn't quite fit that role.

 

[Bop]

With all due respect who are you to say what we can and can't do with our ships? I just don't like feeing like someone is putting a gun to my head saying you can't do this or that or you're a hypocrite. It's actually made me a little bitter towards Spike fans because more than once they've said I have to forgive him for what he did while soulless because I forgive Angel for what Angelus does. The thing is I don't have to, the Angel/Angelus story is far better executed so I do give them that allowance to see the difference between Angel and Angelus.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

There's a lot of Bangel VS Spuffy debates last 20 years and I simply don't understand how Bangel shippers can trash Spuffy shippers(or opposite)

I mean, either you're okay with Buffy being with both of them (acknowledging that both relationships were damaging for her), either she should be with none of them.

They're both vampires, they both killed thousands of people, they both raped people, they both tortured people, they were both selfish, they both have been soulless then ensouled, they both hurt Buffy and her friends, they both loved her and cared for her, they both didn't fit in her human life, they both couldn't offer her real happiness and an actual future.

There's been a lot of debate over the years on this board and it has gotten pretty heated.

Fans feel very strongly about their chosen ship.

It's not often I see a Buffy/Angel fan admit that Buffy loved Spike as well. There's a lot of bashing Spike to make Angel look better, constantly referencing Buffy's quote about loving Angel more than she will "ever love anything in this life," and claims that Buffy was "just being nice" when she told Spike she loved him. It's exhausting. Some fans will just never accept that Buffy loved/loves Spike, because it threatens their ship. Because somehow Buffy can't love more than one man.

I see a lot more acceptance of Buffy/Angel with Spike/Buffy shippers. For us, Bangel is past and Spuffy is endgame.

I completely disagree that Buffy's relationship with Spike was unhealthy in the end. I could go into why, but what's the point.

 

[thrasherpix]

I get what you mean, but at the same time I also think people are too quick to assume that someone might be biased for a ship because they prefer a certain character.

For instance people have accused me of just being biased for Bangel because apparently I don't like Spike.

It's blown my mind that after I resolved to cut back in my criticism of Spike & Spuffy due to those I was upsetting when I first arrived, but continued saying for years I love Sprusilla and Spike wasn't instantly in love with Buffy in s2, that Spike not being staked in season 5 tested my suspension of disbelief, one criticism of Angel gets me called a Spuffy by a member who visited frequently for years and should've known better.

Also, the belief the only reason I can't love season 7 is because of Spike when my criticism barely touches on him directly (even the one thing that does is where I give an alternative to what would work for me), but the incredibly sloppy writing that convinces me most of the staff and actors were burned out and just wanted it to be over. Saying Buffy made stupid decisions or that Angel would laugh over Spike being "drowned in a bucket" (after his vacation on the sea floor) isn't much of a condemnation of Spike himself.

I'm not Bangel or Spuffy, but I do see distinctions between them (I could also point out that Anya, at least through season 6, spilled more blood and wreaked more havoc than all the characters combined, with a soul and unrepetent, and yet she seems good enough for Giles and Xander). Had it been handled a little differently I could even get behind Spuffy, though I wouldn't be particularly excited about it. And they've all hurt each other and were reckless at best (not just Buffy/Spike/Angel) at one time or another.

 

[Plasma]

This is an...interesting...topic.

I definitely wouldn't say it's an all or nothing situation. I am a hardcore Spuffy, and I have been since the day in S5 that Spike snapped up in his bed from his "nightmare" 😉. Technically earlier, around Something Blue due to their great chemistry. I get absolutely giddy and get butterflies in my stomach when Buffy and Spike make with the spit-swappin'. I absolutely adore every moment they stand up for each other and protect each other. I don't defend what Spike did in Seeing Red, as most sane people wouldn't, but I also understand that he was still a demon and was able to redeem himself by becoming ensouled and providing Buffy with the man she deserved from jump.

With that being said, I neither love nor hate Bangel. I like DB & SMG, and I especially like some of their interactions in AtS. The moment when Angel just dresses Buffy down (figuratively this time) on her coming to him with her "perfect new life" in Sanctuary is one of my favorite moments of either show. It's a moment that conveys passion, frustration, and emotional hangups in a way that feels completely real. Do I love them as a couple? Not really, I think they're more interesting to watch as former lovers. Do I hate them? Absolutely not! The actors and characters are crackling with chemistry, even if it isn't chemistry that I particularly get into. Angel has his allure, and I can appreciate that.

I also don't think or acknowledge that either was damaging to her. They were relationships, with their ups and downs. The only difference is that Buffy dated demons, so the ups and downs were far more peak and valley periods than a normal relationship. This is a world where a high school literally sits on top of a gateway to Hell (or one of them at least) and has students die like every other week, so I can accept that everything in this reality is heightened. As such, so are the relationships between the characters. Saying that they are somehow equivalent because they're vampires is a bit hyperbolic and really oversimplifies both ships. These are complex characters who just so happen to be vampires, but it doesn't mean that is the one character trait they have.

Let me go out on a limb here and say that it isn't hypocritical to say that you like one ship over the other. It's a matter of personal preference, and I don't think that's hypocrisy at all. Even if someone's argument for liking one over the other is "Spike without a soul was bad, but Angelus is ok because it's a different situation", I don't consider that hypocrisy. I consider that someone having an opinion, and even if it's one that I don't like, it's one I can respect. It keeps the conversations interesting. Same goes for Fuffy, which I'm not crazy about, but I respect (and also like) because someone found something and latched onto it in a way that I didn't. While Spike is the one and only man for me, plenty of other people have plenty of other opinions, and I love that about everyone here 🙂 It would be boring to just read an echo chamber!

All that being said, I'm aware that this is Battle'Ship (and me own S.S. Spuffy be a mighty vessel, ye landlubbers!), but some of these kinds of posts just seem really inflammatory. I'm glad to see plenty of new opinions that I would have never considered! In that same vein, it feels really bad to read a post that says the way I feel is bad and I should feel bad. It would be kind of nice to read a written out and non-putting down opinion on why you feel that none of Buffy's ships are right for her instead of saying that the others are bad or poor. I like reading opinions and varying discussion, but I'm not all that keen on hit pieces against others' opinions. 🙁

 

[afanofbuffy]

I am team Spuffy.