New Layout for Main Page

[Ripper666]

To me, this feels a bit like giving a friend the "cold shoulder" when they've done something to piss you off... but they don't know what they did and since you're not talking to them you won't tell them. This is not a constructive way to deal with conflict. And I'm not saying that from a place of anger or frustration, I'm saying that from an observer's point of view.

I totally agree. Very well written. I feel exactly the same.

First of all its your opinion that what I'm saying is stupid. And second of all there is no need to be saying that. It's rude and hurtful. I dont like when people call my opinion stupid. That's not how you talk to people.

I don't think Hale Caesar didn't want to offend you or call you stupid when he critized you. As he7she allready said you're a very smart person. I guess his/her post above wanted to excuse himself and tried to explain how it came to the use of the word "stupid". You should give him/her a chance.

Karma doesn't have the same effect though. Being able to write how I feel on a forum post is the best way to my feelings across. Karma is good for agreeing, but some people want to explain themselves and expand on their ideas. Karma simply doesn't do that.

I see what you mean. Anyway this is for what we have the Karma-button. 🙂 I understand when you want to ad something which isn't allready mentioned, even if it's just a small sentence. Then I have nothing against a new post. But if you write exactly the same thing like two or three others before it gets boring to read. We will notice you and your opinion when you use the karma, trust me! 🙂

Just to compare it, Someone makes an art thread on here and puts up their pieces. Everyone starts telling them they don't like their art and it could be better - nope, that doesn't happen.

Nice comparison. But I think some of you didn't get a point, Darla included! We appreciate and admire Darlas art, her work and what she does for the forum. And yes maybe we should show this more often. But compared to a meal, we just said that the first menu was better then the second one, even if both had been a pleasure! We didn't said the second menu was bad. And so we all thank Darla for her work!

 

[Black Eye Guy]

But this isn't an art thread. This is a change in the board's appearance and user interface. Once again I hear "only express your opinion if it's positive." Which is ridiculous when speaking about a thread for user feedback of the user interface. Some of the feedback is going to be negative. MOST of it was and usually is "I'll have to get used to it."

Some people bitched, yes. But usually it was in a constructive way. But some people also expressed much love for it. Don't make the negative opinions be anything more than they are/were: opinions. I, personally, hated the changes. That is a negative opinion. But it is not a personal attack. It is not an ungrateful remark. It is simply my opinion of the changes. I'm sorry if that was offensive, me hating the changes... but it's how I feel. What do you want from me? You can't MAKE me like them. Not taking them away, not yelling at me... that is not going to MAKE me like the changes. However, letting this go through that magical trial period and letting people get used to them and then letting them use the clean skin if they hate it too much... THAT is going to be constructive.

I compared it to the art thread cuz I think it's the same principal.

Your telling me if you put hours of work into something and then people started saying they hated it or your preferred the older version you wouldn't mind that at all.

To be honest if you look over the start of the thread, everyone is more then happy to say It will take some getting used to, then you come along and the first thing you say is you hate it, everyone else can basically say they don't like it in a nicer way.

Now I know you'll just say it's your opinion and you can say your opinion if other don't like how harsh you can be thats their problem - really it isn't, if you wanna stay stuff harshly like you hate the hours of work someone put in to keeping the site fresh and new, how someone isn't supposed to take that personally, I don't see.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Let me just step in again to say that it is NOT ok to call someone else's point of view stupid. You can disagree all you like about this issue, but do not attack someone's opinion, please.
I hear people saying they want to voice their opinion. Zobothehobo insists that we only want to here positive opinions. This is not true at all; if you're taking it that way it's because you are interpreting it that way. Anytime there is a big change on the boards, Darla leaves these kinds of threads open for feedback. It's HOW people are giving their "feedback" that is a problem, and if you read through this whole thread and don't see any issue with how the "feedback" is being expressed by some (not all), then you should probably take a course in etiquette or something, because there is nothing nice about some of these posts.
As others have said, this is Darla's board. Yes, it's a free service, but it's one that SHE provides. If you don't like how things are run on this board, there are plenty of other Buffy-related boards out there to go to. And I say that not in a mean way, but as a reminder that it is not mandatory for anyone to keep posting somewhere they're unhappy. And no, that's not telling you that it's "my way or the highway" around here where the staff is concerned, either, so don't go implying that. I'm simply telling you that you don't have to be here, and you don't have to post. But if you are going to be here, you're going to have to deal with certain changes now and then because this is not your board. It's Darla's.
As has been said (and apparently ignored) several times now, the entire staff is open to your feedback and opinions, but if you keep reiterating the same thing over and over, that is not accomplishing anything. This thread is going in circles because people "want to be heard", but you're not saying anything you haven't already said, and you just keep getting more rude about things.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Nice comparison. But I think some of you didn't get a point, Darla included! We appreciate and admire Darlas art, her work and what she does for the forum. And yes maybe we should show this more often. But compared to a meal, we just said that the first menu was better then the second one, even if both had been a pleasure! We didn't said the second menu was bad. And so we all thank Darla for her work!

Well to be honest the reason I didn't get that point, is I didn't see anyone say thanks for doing the work to Darla, people said they would have to get used to it, a few others said they liked and others said they Hated it.

Most people did say they prefer the first one, but people were saying the second was bad.

I think one of the reasons it can be frustrating is, that there isn't enough thanks - while I don't think we all want to sit around patting each other on the back and everyone should be constantly saying thank you, from the other side of it, it does get a bit annoying when you don something and the reaction is always the same.

Like I made a joke to the other mods that when I saw the VBulletin logo my first thought was this was gonna be because of people complaining, not because of an issue - Like thats actually pretty bad, that at this stage I just know people will have bitched enough to have had to offended someone.

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

I really don't want to get into this argument, because I feel like we should be able to just come to a resolution... I personally am very thankful for all the hard work Darla has done for us. I do admit that I preferred the previous layout to the new one, but I really don't think the new layout was worth all this argumentation? Is it really that big of a deal? :/

The new layout wasn't even bad, it was just a change, a change we could all get used to even if you don't like it. I like it, yes I preferred it before, but I still like it.

 

[Ripper666]

Well to be honest the reason I didn't get that point, is I didn't see anyone say thanks for doing the work to Darla...

Mhmm. This isn't really where I wanted to get with you. You're right, we don't say enough thanks to Darla. We may get too much used on the things she does for the forum. And yes you're right that we don't have the right to hate the new design. Cause there is too much work behind.

But on the other hand we shouldn't approve everything with a amen. Don't missunderstand me, it's just that because there is so much work behind this forum we have to choose the right words. And yes "hate" is a no-go then. But we should have the possibilty to say our honest opinion. And "I liked the old one better" is a statement which you should be able to accept. Point.

Maybe a sentence from Darla would prepare us for deeper changes. Something like a: "Working on a new design rightnow..." and then we wouldn't be so surprised and the reactions would be more open. We all thank Darla for her work. Sentences like "I hate it..." are not acceptable. But in my eyes it is not acceptable to downgrade the hole forum because then others get punished even if they hadn't to do with all this stuff. Because remain silent is no solutin either. If Darla has the feeling that she and her work isn't honored enough or that someone offended her she can talk in general in a thread or PM with the things which made her sad. Then we could search a solution and Darla would notice that the member crew stands behind her and her project and that everybody here honors her work very much.

 

[SlayerFest]

Just to compare it, Someone makes an art thread on here and puts up their pieces. Everyone starts telling them they don't like their art and it could be better - nope, that doesn't happen.

I don't really see how it's any different, if a member was putting up pieces, everyone on here would be respectful and nice, but when it comes to Darla putting work into the site, much like any other time, it results in bitching and complaining.

It's not like this is the first time, any time she does anything to the site it results in people bitching.

I don't think the art thread example is a good comparison. If somone criticized my artwork and provided ways that I could improve it, I would appreciate that. But that's just me. Everyone I know has always been brutally honest about my writing, the films I make with my friends, and my graphic design work, so I'm used to that. My best friend once told me an essay I showed her sounded like it was written by someone who barely spoke English haha but I re-wrote it and I got an A! Jules example of the dinner that a person has slaved over being criticized is better. Again, that comes from personal experience. I was raised to suck it up and smile, even when the food someone has prepared tastes awful. It really depends though. If my dad makes food, he wants me to be brutal because he thinks he's a master chef or something and he wants to know how to improve what he makes, but my cousin would be pissed if I told her how gross her eggs are, yikes! So if Darla wanted us to be absolutely honest and she asked for tips to improve the layout, then maybe the response or the outcome would have been different.

I personally did like the layout. Thank you Darla. I appreciate all that you do. This really is just a case of miscommunication and people reacting to things based on their own experiences...no duh haha. I don't think anyone was trying to be intentionally disrespectful though.

 

[FaithsFollower]

Well to be honest the reason I didn't get that point, is I didn't see anyone say thanks for doing the work to Darla, people said they would have to get used to it, a few others said they liked and others said they Hated it.

You are absolutely right. We DON'T show enough appreciation for the things that you guys do/come up with.

I am well aware of that and I truly am sorry for not speaking up. I feel I said it best in the BB Newsletter Feedback thread:

I know I don't post in here, this is my first post, but be assured that I read the newsletter and even though I don't say it, I really do appreciate the work that you guys have put into it. 🙂

Great job!! 😀

I want you guys to know that my appreciation doesn't just apply to the newsletter.

 

[Faith]

Right, i'm closing this thread for the time being. The arguments are going round in circles, people are starting to talk over each other and not too each other and no good ever comes of that. Everyone needs to take a step back and then we can approach the real issues at hand.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Mhmm. This isn't really where I wanted to get with you. You're right, we don't say enough thanks to Darla. We may get too much used on the things she does for the forum. And yes you're right that we don't have the right to hate the new design. Cause there is too much work behind.

But on the other hand we shouldn't approve everything with a amen. Don't missunderstand me, it's just that because there is so much work behind this forum we have to choose the right words. And yes "hate" is a no-go then. But we should have the possibilty to say our honest opinion. And "I liked the old one better" is a statement which you should be able to accept. Point.

Maybe a sentence from Darla would prepare us for deeper changes. Something like a: "Working on a new design rightnow..." and then we wouldn't be so surprised and the reactions would be more open. We all thank Darla for her work. Sentences like "I hate it..." are not acceptable. But in my eyes it is not acceptable to downgrade the hole forum because then others get punished even if they hadn't to do with all this stuff. Because remain silent is no solutin either. If Darla has the feeling that she and her work isn't honored enough or that someone offended her she can talk in general in a thread or PM with the things which made her sad. Then we could search a solution and Darla would notice that the member crew stands behind her and her project and that everybody here honors her work very much.

I agree with you and I was trying to say that I don't think everyone should be saying thank you in the posts when something like this happens. And I don't think Darla would expect praise every time she does something.

I'm just trying to explain why Darla would have removed the skins, when you spend time doing something only to have people being negative about it, and for this to be a constant thing it gets terribly frustrating to keep doing stuff and for it to appear no one cares - and people do care, but I can tell you being a Mod, I do have a certain amount of 'Ugh whats the point' about stuff because it is constantly a negative when something is done.

The reason I compared it to the art thread before is cuz I see it in the same way, both are things people put a huge amount of work into and care about, and when people ask for feedback, in the art threads it's all positive - not that all the feedback is positive, but it's at least said in a positive way, but that same curtsey wouldn't apply to something like this.

Like if someone said in an art thread, I hate it, heres how you could change it, but I hate it, people would go mental at that person, whereas the person before may say, thats a good start, but heres what you can change - it all comes down to how it's said, and whats frustrating from our side is that when it's something like an art thread people are respectfulness, but when it comes to a boards change or something like it, it's a free for all on why we/or the changes suck.

EDIT:
Oops sorry was already posting before it was closed, if anyone wants to say anything to me karma or PM me, didn't mean to make it seam like I was getting the last word in, lol!