New Slayer?

[bradlee]

I dunno if this has been asked yet, but why wasn't there another slayer called after Buffy died in S5?

 

[Dancing man]

I dunno if this has been asked yet, but why wasn't there another slayer called after Buffy died in S5?

Ive asked myself this before, dunno if it mentions it in the show. You would think their would of been. Unless Buffy already counts as being dead from season1. If so then only Faith dieing would activate another slayer.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

Probably because the line already went through Buffy when Kendra was called and is now in Faith, with Buffy out of the picture.

 

[Kean]

As others have already mentioned when Buffy died in The Gift the Slayer line no longer ran through her. It had moved onto Kendra and then Faith.

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

I dunno if this has been asked yet

Only in every single forum, newgroup, blog, review, etc since it aired. There are about that many different opinions as to the answer, too. Mainly they seem to boil down to:

1. The "Slayer line" runs through Faith, not Buffy, because Buffy died in Season One long enough to call Kendra; the line then passed to Kendra, who died and called Faith, passing the line to her, therefore either
   [a]Nobody will ever be called when Buffy dies again, or
   Buffy's resurrection screwed things up so that either Buffy OR Faith will call another Slayer at their death, OR
   [c]Buffy's resurrection screwed things up so that no Slayer will be called unless both Buffy AND Faith are dead, or
   
   [*]There was another Slayer called, we just never got to see her because she wasn't important to Buffy's story, or
   
   [*]The writers just screwed up and forgot that there should have been another Slayer called, or
   
   [*]Joss and everyone else involved lost interest and stopped even trying to follow their own continuity (also known as the "Wah! Mommy! They didn't write their own story the way *I* wanted them to write it!" theorem, which has about a million variations...)
   

I'm sure I've probably forgotten about a thousand versions of each of the above, plus a few primaries. I'm more in favor of (1) and (1b), though, because one of the shooting scripts from Season Seven includes a line of dialogue where Buffy says that she thinks both she and Faith would have to die to call another Slayer. So, I tend to believe that's probably where they were headed with it.

 

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

to me though of all the "reasons" ony 1 makes sense. why on earth would her dying 50 times call 50 slayers? she died already and in the way of the world, that was all it took, was just the one time to call another. Slayer line does not go through her anymore, its done. its all on Faith (well up until they gave the potentials their powers). i think it does follow continuity perfectly.

sorry but... i get so aggravated with these other answers because they make no sense to me.

 

[nerd4hire]

I usually enter this fray in favor of 1b or 1c, but I'm going to hold off this time, because I'm hoping the answer to all this will be revealed in the upcoming Fray arc in Season 8.

I think you can throw out 2 through 4 though, because between season 5 and season 6 Joss specifically said another slayer couldn't be called at that point, because the line still ran through Faith. He also promised on 2 occasions to make sense of the discrepancy between multiple slayers in Chosen, and (more or less) a single slayer in Fray. He promised to do it sometime in the future.

You can find the quotes and links here with a board search on "slayer line".

 

[Groosalugg]

I believe it's option 1a.

People who've been fans longer than me claim that a couple of the writers once gave an interview, S6-ish, where this very question was asked, and their explanation was that the Slayer line no longer passes through Buffy, and that only Faith's death could call a new one.

Some people have complained that this is contradicted in "Potential" in S7, when Buffy tells the girls, "My death could make one of you the next Slayer." In the same episode, when Dawn thinks she's a potential, she also talks about how she could only become the Slayer if Buffy died. I don't think it's a contradiction, so much as just a case of the characters not knowing everything that their creators (the writers) do. It also fits in perfectly with the attitude they all always had about Faith, which was that Buffy was the "real" Slayer, and Faith was just an accident, a second-class wanna-be. 🙄

 

[nerd4hire]

The problem with that argument is there's a third mention of the line only passing on if Buffy dies. It's from Chosen, written by Joss Whedon. The First Evil is the speaker.

Then why aren't you asleep in your dead lover's arms? (looks over at Spike) 'Cause he can't help you. Nor Faith, nor your friends, certainly not your wanna-slay brigade. None of those girlies will ever know real power unless you're dead.

Also do you remember this from What's My Line 2

Giles: Uh, it seems somehow that, uh, another Slayer has been sent to
Sunnydale.

Willow: Is that even possible? I mean, two Slayers at the same time?

Giles: Not to my knowledge. Um, th-the new Slayer is only called after
the previous Slayer has died. Uh... (realizes) Oh, good Lord! You were
dead, Buffy.

Buffy: I was only gone for a minute.

Giles: Clearly it doesn't matter how long you were gone. You were
physically dead! Thus causing the activation of the, the next Slayer.
(nods toward Kendra)

The scoobs do know the line passed from Buffy to Kendra. Later Cordelia explains how the line passed from Kendra to Faith. The Scoobs know how the line works. So where did they get the idea it was now Buffy who passed it on? Neither Xander nor Willow contradicted Dawn when she suggested Buffy would have to die for her to get the power.

I was gonna try to stay out of this one, but I can't stop myself. 🙂

 

[Groosalugg]

As far as what the First Evil said, I'd say that maybe even it isn't omniscient enough to know the truth about the Slayer line. Possibly it's just taking it's cue from what it's heard Buffy and her friends/family say about it. And the fact that it was written by Joss, well, in that same episode he has Angel say that the First was the ancient power that tried to convince him to kill himself. Erm, no--it wanted him to kill Buffy, and he decided to thwart it's plan by killing himself. So Joss's memory of some of the past details of his own plots can be kinda tenuous at times (see also: Warren in S8). : erm :

And you're right that "What's My Line, Pt. 2" showed that the gang did know that the line passed to Kendra (and presumably to Faith when Kendra died), but that was five years before S7, and I'm suggesting that their memory might be a little... selective. Especially if that means even considering the idea that Faith is more of the "real" Slayer than Buffy. Sacrilege! Sacrilege, I tells ya! :angry:

 

[nerd4hire]

OK, I think I got it. So Joss Whedon doesn't really understand what he's saying when he has the First Evil state Buffy has to die for another slayer to be called. You however do understand, and the First Evil you say was also mistaken, and didn't have a clue what it was talking about.

Cool. I don't have access to Joss, or the First Evil, but I can talk to you, so I can now get the true, inside scoop on something I've always wondered about.

In Showtime Giles and Anya visit the all-knowing demon Beljoxa's Eye. They ask him why the First Evil would turn up at that particular time. Beljoxa's Eye tells them the First Evil want to "extinguish the lives of the chosen forever". Apparently the opportunity has only recently presented itself, and it happened as a result of "The mystical forces surrounding the chosen line (becoming) irrevocably altered, (becoming) unstable, vulnerable."

We don't see the explanation of exactly what it meant by that, but when Giles and Anya return from BE's dimension there's this.

GILES
Are you all right?

ANYA
(limping) Yeah, I just—I don't understand how Buffy's death mucked up the whole slayer mojo. You know, it's not like she hasn't died before.

GILES
It's not because she died. The Beljoxa's Eye was quite clear about that in its enigmatic way. It's because she lives. Again. Buffy's not responsible for that.

ANYA
Oh. Oh. Willow and me and Xander and Tara. We're the ones who brought Buffy back. We're—we're the reason The First is here, the reason those girls were murdered. No, it's our fault. The world would've been better off if Buffy had just stayed dead. (walks off)

Now silly me, thinking what the writers said matters leapt to the conclusion Willow's spell resurrecting Buffy created a disruption in the forces surrounding the slayer line and The First Evil was going to use that to extinguish the slayer line.

In other words at that point there was a slayer line to extinguish. I couldn't help noticing The First Evil wanted to kill Faith but keep Buffy alive, until it's plan could be enacted. I also noticed the episode following that one was the one where the Scoobs all of a sudden believe the line now passes through Buffy.

So what's really happening there? What did me and the writers miss? What's the correct interpretation?

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

I have a theory.
When Buffy died the first, she was gone. Well, at least for a minute or so, point is, she got back with natural means. Another slayer was called and so the slayer line went through her, until we got Faith. In the book of destiny, she was out of the picture, she had passed her powers on. Then, she died again. Everything was back to order, only the latest called slayer was still around. Then, the Scoobies did the spell. While the first time Buffy died she was resurrected my natural means, this time magic was involved. This magic somehow clashed with the destiny line magic and the world realized, 'hey, old dead Slayer is back'. So far so good. Now there's the harder question, who would have to die for a new slayer to be called? And this may be the point. Although the slayer line technically went through Faith, we could consider Buffy the last slayer being called, as her 'new' life, empowered by very strong magic, made her the 'new' slayer again.

Does that make any sense? It's a bit confusing but I hope you get my point.

 

[nerd4hire]

I think I get it SS. It sounds like one I heard before, that went because the body of Buffy had deteriorated after Buffy's second death, Willow had to magically create a whole new slayer with all the slayer magic intact. This time Willow wasn't reviving Buffy's dead body. She was recreating the original Buffy from scratch. Because deep magic comes with consequences in the Buffyverse this had the effect of corrupting the slayer line in some way we're still not sure of. But the line goes through at least Buffy now (maybe Faith), because as far as the magic is concerned this Buffy is the original Buffy.

Or maybe it's like this. The slayer comes with a marker telling the line when the slayer dies, and when to move on. After Buffy's first death the marker was gone. When Willow recreated Buffy, she magically recreated the marker.

 

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

i do have to say, SS and Nerd, that DOES make sense. I can deal with that.

 

[Groosalugg]

OK, I think I got it. So Joss Whedon doesn't really understand what he's saying when he has the First Evil state Buffy has to die for another slayer to be called. You however do understand, and the First Evil you say was also mistaken, and didn't have a clue what it was talking about.

Cool. I don't have access to Joss, or the First Evil, but I can talk to you, so I can now get the true, inside scoop on something I've always wondered about.

Jesus Christ, all I was trying to do was offer my own interpretation of the whole thing. It was an OPINION. Maybe I'm wrong. But if you think Joss is incapable of ever making a mistake, then go look up his answer in the S8 lettercol about Warren and how he could be alive if the First Evil was able to take his form in S7. Quote: "I forgot, okay?" If you don't agree with my opinion, fine, don't agree with it, but there isn't a more polite way you could've found to voice that disagreement? Nice job making the new guy feel welcome.

If you're representative of what the rest of the members here are like, then maybe I made a mistake even registering. Sorry I wasted your time, then. I'll just show myself out. 🙁

 

[RogueHunter]

Buffy resorted to selling Amway products after the Doublemeat thing fell through.

If anything will cause a mystical disruption, its that.

 

[nerd4hire]

Jesus Christ, all I was trying to do was offer my own interpretation of the whole thing. It was an OPINION. Maybe I'm wrong. But if you think Joss is incapable of ever making a mistake, then go look up his answer in the S8 lettercol about Warren and how he could be alive if the First Evil was able to take his form in S7. Quote: "I forgot, okay?" If you don't agree with my opinion, fine, don't agree with it, but there isn't a more polite way you could've found to voice that disagreement? Nice job making the new guy feel welcome.

If you're representative of what the rest of the members here are like, then maybe I made a mistake even registering. Sorry I wasted your time, then. I'll just show myself out. 🙁

OK, so I went back, and reread my post, and yeah, you're right. A little too snide. A little too heavy on the sarcastic side. Sorry about that.

I think I've visited this particular topic one or two times too often. The argument which goes there have been continuity errors in the past therefore everything is a continuity error, and must be reimagined kind of wears me down.

I'll be nice from now on though. I promise. For one thing it would be unwise not to be. It's entirely possible the upcoming Season 8 Fray arc will prove everything I say completely wrong. To be snotty, and wrong is the worst kind of wrong.

However, at the risk of being wrong, my point is simply this. The idea season 7 has something to do with the slayer line is supported consistently throughout. In fact the season ends with a complete redesign of how the slayer line works. The precise conclusions as to what exactly is going on are of course subject for debate, but if we choose to believe what the writers tell us the season can make sense. If we choose to distrust them on a consistent basis we wind up writing what I'll call a fanfic explanation for ourselves, and after having seen many such explanations I contend I've yet to see one that makes more sense than the explanation the writers gave us.

But we can test that theory if you like. A certain amount of fanwankery is still required, of course, but here's what the writers tell us...

The First Evil has returned to exploit a disruption in the slayer line. The disruption is a result of the resurrection spell Willow cast in Bargaining. The slayer line now passes through Buffy. The First Evil wants to end the slayer line and become corporeal, to pass into any human as he does into Caleb. The scythe passes demon energy through itself. The slayer is required to make the magic work. All these things are written into the text.

Now try this. Within that framework ask yourself all the unanswered questions of Season 7. I suggest with a little logic based fanwanking the answers are all there.

What is the disruption?
How is the First Evil planning to exploit it?
What does the First want?
Why does the First Evil need a souled vampire the slayer has affection for?
Why does the First Evil need Buffy alive, but it isn't fussy about Faith?

You see here's my frustration. Something makes sense. Why is there this need to reject it?

 

[perrytvs]

I believe Buffy's death in 5x22 was supposed to be heroic and smiled upon by those that are higher up..., she sacrificed herself to save humanity. But she is a powerful warrior who is needed on Earth, where Dawn wasn't even real a year earlier. I'd say 5x22 was a failure, and a forfeit of power. She ended the slayer line right there. That's why at the end of S7 they spread the power to all potential girls... the higher beings would only allow that to happen if they had a back up. Remember, the slayer is a tool of good against evil, but it has to be kept in line, there has to be order.
Now Buffy has control over most of these girls, but who is the weapon when she is gone, if the girls all turn against the world they protect or if they are all killed?

 

[InsaneMystic]

to me though of all the "reasons" ony 1 makes sense. why on earth would her dying 50 times call 50 slayers? she died already and in the way of the world, that was all it took, was just the one time to call another. Slayer line does not go through her anymore, its done. its all on Faith (well up until they gave the potentials their powers). i think it does follow continuity perfectly.

sorry but... i get so aggravated with these other answers because they make no sense to me.

Actually, 2) made perfect sense to me, were it not for the fact that I later on heard Joss state otherwise - and even he seems not to have fully stuck with it if you look at all the S7 quotes. I fully expected there to be from PG to TG to be "forever" two Slayers in every generation, and after TG "forever" three. And if any of those did the resurrection or drown-and-CPR thingy, they'd keep multiplying. So, yes, 50 reversed deaths means 50 slayers.

If the Slayer line just passes on from Buffy to Kendra, and does not also stay with Buffy, why does Buffy keep her Slayer powers after "Prophecy Girl" and/or "The Gift" and doesn't instead come back reverted to (probably "too old") Potential status? Do we have any evidence (other than Joss's word, that is :wink: yes I know he's the - sometimes forgetful - God of the Slayerverse and everything blah blah, but I mean evidence actually shown "on screen" either on TV or in the comics) contradicting my original assumption that:

Potential + Line Energy = Slayer <=> Slayer - Line Energy = Potential

If this formula is true, then every Slayer returning from death with her Slayer powers intact equals a "split" in the line, thus we'd have a yet unshown second Slayer called after TG, making Buffy past "Bargaining" the third one.

(As an aside, I've said in another thread that I also considered past "Chosen" every Potential "forever" automatically becoming a Slayer on puberty, so if all of my theories were correct, none of this is really important anymore, as there simply is no Slayer line anymore after "Chosen"...)


If there indeed is evidence that I'm overlooking, please tell me (especially in S8, I know nothing about the comics apart from the odd tidbit here and there that I stumble on here on this site); it definitely wasn't just a rethorical question.

 

[nerd4hire]

Well there is one bit of evidence concerning the slayer line in Season 8. I'm not sure what it supports though.

There's a warlock named Roden. He incants a spell to teleport Buffy to him.

He calls Buffy "the first of the last", what ever that means.