New Slayer?

[SC7 Fan]

reply to new slayer

I dunno if this has been asked yet, but why wasn't there another slayer called after Buffy died in S5?

the slayer line had already been passed to faith so therefore no slayer was called

 

[Buffanator]

S'easy if ya don't over-think it (IMHO).

Buffy died - Kendra was called.
Buffy was brought back.

Kendra died - Faith was called.

Buffy died again, which obviously 2nds don't count, because as long as Faith was alive, the line was straight.

Now if Faith died, another slayer WOULD have been called.

See? Easy. :crazy:

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

S'easy if ya don't over-think it (IMHO).

Buffy died - Kendra was called.
Buffy was brought back.

Kendra died - Faith was called.

Buffy died again, which obviously 2nds don't count, because as long as Faith was alive, the line was straight.

Now if Faith died, another slayer WOULD have been called.

See? Easy. :crazy:

See, I always believed that, until I read this topic. It works fine as a theory right up until Season 7, and I think the problem is that most people are a lot less familliar with that Season than they are with, say, 1 or 6. Also, Season 7 is often discounted as because by the end there is no line, merely the chosen. However, The First's plan does seem to hinge on the disruptance in the line that occured after The Gift - specifically there, not after Prophecy Girl.

Now, the standard response to this is the natural ressucitation vs. magical ressurection, which makes perfect sense on a superficial level. However, the only reason Buffy could be brought back was that she died in mystical circumstances, surely the PTB's area of expertise, no? I don't see how her being brought back would fracture the line in any way different to how it was already split, unless she was actually brought back different.

Perhaps the PTB took the chance to force the line back into place? More likely Willow's spell brought Buffy back as the Slayer, her original state. This would, at best, cause some confusion in the slayer line, and at worst, completely re-route it. Now, if Buffy was forcefully reinserted into the line (perhaps wresting the priority from Faith), that would be a change (that, crucially, has not already happened post Prophecy Girl) that The First could possibly exploit.

It's difficult to see what the true consequences to this would be, however, due to the nature of Chosen. Would a potential be called at the death of Buffy, Faith, or both. At the end of Season 6, I would have said Faith (although, interestingly enough, Buffy says that her death would result in a calling in Grave), but with regards to Season 7 it has to be Buffy. Or possibly both. What people forget is that the Line was fundimentally changed post The Gift, just as it was after Prophecy Girl. Because of that, I can't see the Buffy > Kendra > Faith > ??? progression still standing. That wouldn't be a change, and wouldn't be any different to pre The Gift.

But as to why another Slayer wasn't called at the end of Season 5, the Buffy > Kendra > Faith line still stood until Bargaining I & II.

Also, I realise that most of the ideas expressed above have already been expressed (mostly by nerd4hire), but this post was actually more me working through them for myself! It's easier to properly understand your own thinking if you have to lay it out for someone else!

 

[Superstar]

The Slayer line

A certain amount of fanwankery is still required, of course, but here's what the writers tell us...
The First Evil has returned to exploit a disruption in the slayer line. The disruption is a result of the resurrection spell Willow cast in Bargaining. The slayer line now passes through Buffy. The First Evil wants to end the slayer line and become corporeal, to pass into any human as he does into Caleb. The scythe passes demon energy through itself. The slayer is required to make the magic work. All these things are written into the text... Now try this. Within that framework ask yourself all the unanswered questions of Season 7

I posted most of this elsewhere, and unfortunately ran into someone without linear thinking - rather than argue the points ad infinitum, we agreed to disagree. Part of this disagreement is regarding the number of deaths for Buffy and the spell in "Bargaining"

Since you ask the questions below I'll answer them, but not in the order you ask them.

The first necessary part is establishing history of events:
Buffy's first death - mundane drowning and mundane resurrection.
--- Unprecedented event; a new slayer is called. All is ok with the universe ---
Buffy's second death - mystical death and mystical resurrection.
--- Magical price to pay; creation of a demon. All is ok with the universe ---
Buffy's third death - mundane gunshot and mystical resurrection.
--- All is not ok with the universe and things begin to fall apart ---

This is against the laws in several aspects.
1 - It is specifically forbidden as evidenced with Willow's attempt to revive Tara.
2 - It is specifically forbidden as evidenced by Angel's attempt to save Darla who has already been given life once before.
3 - It was not accomplished by going through the "proper channels" but by dark magic alone.

What is the disruption?

Death 3 - Lawful supernatural resurrection using the Urn of Osiris followed by an unlawful supernatural resurrection by Willow using Dark Magic. The slayer line regarding passing of power is now in flux as long as Buffy remains alive - the mojo is mucked-up, man! While mucked-up no new slayers can be called (or so The First believes; who may have more intimate knowledge of the process than anyone or anything else).

How is the First Evil planning to exploit it?

By killing all the potentials, then Faith and lastly Buffy so that the mojo has no place to moto when Buffy is eventually eliminated. The mojo would then be obfuscation free - but be all dressed up and have nowhere to party.

What does the First want?

The end of the slayer line.

Why does the First Evil need Buffy alive, but it isn't fussy about Faith?

See above. Potentials first. Remove the base of the pyramid and the structure falls, including the Watcher's Council. Then Faith as the last of the lawfully called slayer line and then! take out the reason The First had the opportunity in the first place to completely sever slayer involvement in any future plans.

Why does the First Evil need a souled vampire the slayer has affection for?

What an interesting question!
If I had to take a guess, it would be in the endgame for Buffy's demise.
Related conclusion at end of post.

You see here's my frustration. Something makes sense. Why is there this need to reject it?

Well, hopefully I've avoided fanwankery and just postulated on evidence as given on screen.

Evidence:

The Trial:
Jeeves: "This is"”very embarrassing."
Angel: "What is?"
Jeeves: "Not to mention unprecedented. She's"”she's been given new life once before"”by supernatural means, yes?"
Darla: "They brought me back."
Angel: "What are you saying?"
Jeeves: "I can't help you."
Angel: "We had a bargain. She's earned a second chance."
Jeeves: "She's living her second chance. But you played the game magnificently. Perhaps you should have told us that she was brought to life"”before this all started. I truly am sorry, sir. The fact of the matter is there is nothing I can do."

---Giving supernatural life after supernatural life = big no-no.---

Villains:
"Xander: You've got to stop doing this. This dying thing's funny once, maybe twice."

---Buffy's third death.---

Demon: You may not violate the laws of natural passing.
Willow: How? How is this natural?
Demon: It is a human death, by human means.
Willow: But I"”
Demon: You raised one killed by mystical forces. This is not the same. She is taken by natural order. It is done.

---Supernatural resurrection from supernatural death = ok; or else the Urn of Osiris never really had any true lawful function to begin with. Supernatural resurrection from "human" death (a bullet for example) = not ok. See Joyce's resurrection for details on just how wrong this is.---

Showtime:
Giles: If The First has been around for all time, then why hasn't it attempted something like this before? Why now?
Beljoxa's Eye: The opportunity has only recently presented itself.
Giles: Opportunity?
Beljoxa's Eye: The mystical forces surrounding the chosen line have become irrevocably altered, become unstable, vulnerable.
ANYA: Something The First did?
Beljoxa's Eye: The First Evil did not cause the disruption, only seized upon it to extinguish the lives of the chosen forever.
Giles: Then what has caused the disruption? What"”what is responsible for letting this happen?
Beljoxa's Eye: The slayer.

Chosen:
The First: None of those girlies will ever know real power unless you're dead.

The First: I will overrun this earth. And when my army outnumbers the humans on this earth, the scales will tip and I will be made flesh.

---The First's plan, and its cause. Slayers have this nasty habit of "keeping the balance" as the Watcher's know full well, and document; mostly.---

---The writer misdirection---
Anya: Yeah, I just"”I don't understand how Buffy's death mucked up the whole slayer mojo. You know, it's not like she hasn't died before.
Giles: It's not because she died. Beljoxa's Eye was quite clear about that in its enigmatic way. It's because she lives. Again. Buffy's not responsible for that.
Anya: Oh. Oh. Willow and me and Xander and Tara. We're the ones who brought Buffy back. We're"”we're the reason The First is here, the reason those girls were murdered. No, it's our fault. The world would've been better off if Buffy had just stayed dead.

---Possible ramifications for season 8---
The First: Oh, no"¦ ow! Mommy, this mortal wound is all"¦ itchy.

The First: You pulled a nice trick. You came pretty close to smacking
me down. What more do you want?

---Pretty close?---

Why does the First Evil need a souled vampire the slayer has affection for?

If the natural law has now been broken, can Buffy no longer die of a mortal wound? And/or, would she need to be turned into a vampire (best chance by someone close and trusted) and dusted to kill her once and for all?

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

Except that Buffy didn't die from a gunshot wound. Every machine in the ER malfunctioned when Willow walked in; she extracted the bullet and healed Buffy's wound in much the same way that she healed her facial cut later in the Magic Box. No death involved. *sound of another can of worms being kicked over...*

 

[Kemy]

There is also the fact that Buffy's first death was pre-ordained, written in a prophecy. That may have other implications.

Like some higher power knew the Slayer would die, saw Buffy lying drowned knowing she may well live and yet thought "meh, close enough" and called Kendra.

 

[Buffanator]

"Beljoxa's Eye: The mystical forces surrounding the chosen line have become irrevocably altered, become unstable, vulnerable."

Good googly moogly! - Never thought about it, really, but that that pretty much explains it all. For me, anyway. 😉

 

[Superstar]

Hmmm. For some reason Buffanator that karmic reply was jumbled in the posting process.
Not my fault.

Here it is un-jumbled:
"True. Thinking about anything in depth and/or exploring foreshadowing does tend to ruin writer surprises."

 

[Buffanator]

Hmmm. For some reason Buffanator that karmic reply was jumbled in the posting process.
Not my fault.

Here it is un-jumbled:
"True. Thinking about anything in depth and/or exploring foreshadowing does tend to ruin writer surprises."

Heh. Thanks for clearing that up, because my brain got jumbled trying to figure it out... (Bless my heart; doesn't take much!) 😀

 

[Mozzymandias]

Or maybe it's like this. The slayer comes with a marker telling the line when the slayer dies, and when to move on. After Buffy's first death the marker was gone. When Willow recreated Buffy, she magically recreated the marker.

This got me thinking with the marker thing.

If the magic Willow used did make Buffy the 'real' slayer so the line would be passed down when she died, suppose like you said the marker was recreated in its exact place.

Therefore if Buffy died the marker would move to Kendra, but wait Kendra is dead. Thus extinguishing the slayer line, since Faith isn't the one to pass down the line anymore because of Willow's spell to bring Buffy back The First would only need to kill her then.

It seemed to make sense clearly to me once you mentioned like a slayer marker.

Just a little explanation if you don't understand.

Buffy dies and Kendra is called and Buffy is brought back to life everything is ok since if Buffy dies Kendra is still the true slayer.

Kendra dies and the slayer line passes to Faith, everything is still ok as once again Faith is the true slayer.

Buffy dies and the magic recreates her as the true slayer.

If the slayer timeline is already set to who will be called next if Buffy dies Kendra should be called in the time line but being dead its not possible.

Is it just me or does that make sense to everyone?

 

[nerd4hire]

I had to read it a couple of times MozYa, but I think I get what you're saying. You're saying the marker is pre-set, pre-ordained, and can only connect one particular slayer with another particular slayer.

One could choose to see it that way, but there's no reason given in the text saying one must choose to see it that way. One could also see the marker thing as more a sperm and an egg kind of thing. DNA markers are in both sperm and egg. The connection between the 2 markers adapts to circumstances.

 

[Mozzymandias]

I completely agree, i was discussing this with a friend who knows some stuff about Buffy before when i went out to town with him.

We was discussing how the slayer line may be able to adapt, say if Buffy did pass on the line after the spell if she was killed in season 7 one of the potentials would be activated.

There's so many possibilities it's just great to discuss them all and learn other peoples views on the topic.