Question No Dawn

Don said:
She's a thief! Who knows how much money she might have cost the Magic Box in her quest to be "noticed."

Your sister died for you, ya dumb brat.
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And what about all the stuff everyone else does? Like Dark Willow? And Xander leaving Anya? And Anya re-becoming a vengeance demon? And Buffy all throughout season 6 (note- I'm not bashing her, I understand what depression is like and don't blame her one bit. My point is that if you hate Dawn for what she stole and ignore her issues, surely you must ignore Buffy's issues and hate her too?)? And Giles for ditching a young girl because she wasn't 'getting over' her depression and post-traumatic stress fast enough? Etc. You must hate them too... or else it's awfully hypocritical.

And what about the fact that she stole because she had some very big mental issues? It goes way beyond simple teenage-acting-out.
 
davids willow said:
maybe this no magic things going to take away the magic that made the key into Dawn i think maybe this happens the key becomes what it was in the first place anyone agree
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I'm not sure it's ever mentioned in the Buffyverse that the no magic thing means that spells will be reversed. Dawn might be cast out of the dimension because of the anti-magic event, which in turn might make her a big magic blob, or she's one of the magic things that can stay in this dimension, even tough she's magical.

I have to say, Twilight's anti-magic event seems flawed. Since so many things in the Buffyverse has magical qualities(the blood of a virgin, herbs, etc etc) can one trully cast out magic without casting out everything? Maybe Dawn would be one of the things that could stay?
 
Amanda108 said:
And what about all the stuff everyone else does? Like Dark Willow? And Xander leaving Anya? And Anya re-becoming a vengeance demon? And Buffy all throughout season 6 (note- I'm not bashing her, I understand what depression is like and don't blame her one bit. My point is that if you hate Dawn for what she stole and ignore her issues, surely you must ignore Buffy's issues and hate her too?)? And Giles for ditching a young girl because she wasn't 'getting over' her depression and post-traumatic stress fast enough? Etc. You must hate them too... or else it's awfully hypocritical.

And what about the fact that she stole because she had some very big mental issues? It goes way beyond simple teenage-acting-out.
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Simply put, nobody else you described is a whiny little brat that hasn't done anything except get in everybody's way.
 
Don said:
Simply put, nobody else you described is a whiny little brat that hasn't done anything except get in everybody's way.
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I think she was the major reason Buffy didn't try to off herself sooner than in Once More With Feeling. Buffy's love and sense of resonsibility made her stay in this world.

I have several other examples of how Dawn's doing other stuff than getting in people's way, but I have a feeling you won't listen to them.

......

Now that I think about it, Dawn was in the way of Buffy commiting suicide. My bad.
 
Don said:
Simply put, nobody else you described is a whiny little brat that hasn't done anything except get in everybody's way.
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Because brattiness (justified brattiness even) is so much worse than trying to end the world (Willow), taking advantage of someone who loves you (Buffy), or refusing to support someone who needs you (Giles)?

And in season 7 she's quite helpful and she was willing to be helpful in season 6, but they wouldn't let her- so saying she "hasn't done anything" is just flat out inaccurate.

Anyway, even if you hate Dawn (which you seem to) that doesn't make her pointless.
 
Willow tried to end the world only after Giles dosed her with the pure white magic. But Giles' plan backfired. She tried to end the world out of compassion for humanity. She didn't want them to suffer anymore.

Giles refused to help Buffy when she needed him because he was afraid she relied on him too much. He was trying to do her a favor.

I imagine what we're referring to, here, with Buffy taking advantage of somebody who loves her, are her actions towards Spike before season 7. If we're referring to sex, she wasnt taking advantage of him--she was just getting laid, and if we're to believe Joss Whedon, then she was in love with Spike at that point, and so was not taking advantage of him. And if we're referring to the information he'd gather for her, about demons and the like, that she knew he'd get because she wanted it, I say that was a necessary evil in getting the job done in Sunnydale.

Dawn is just a whiny little brat all the time. While Willow tried to end the world once out of compassion, Giles immediately withdrew his decision to abandon Buffy in OMwF, and Buffy, arguably, wasn't taking advantage of Spike sexually at all, Dawn is just a whiny little brat, and she's consistent about it.

Her time has come.
 
Don said:
While Willow tried to end the world once out of compassion, Giles immediately withdrew his decision to abandon Buffy in OMwF, and Buffy, arguably, wasn't taking advantage of Spike sexually at all, Dawn is just a whiny little brat, and she's consistent about it.
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Okay: Willow did tons of other terrible stuff besides trying to end the world; I'm not sure what you mean by Giles withdrawing his decision, he decided to leave completely in OMWF, unless you mean his choosing to help with the Dawn-rescue; and I'm going to stay away from the Spuffy topic since it's a sensitive issue and I don't want to go OT.

Anyway, I agree that all those people had good reason for their actions, though I disagree with your assessment passing off those actions as light problems - they may have had reasons or good intentions, but that doesn't mean they aren't responsible for what they do. My point is that Dawn has good reason for her actions too, yet while you feel compassion for the other characters you ignore her problems. Or do you really believe she doesn't have any reasons for her precarious mental state (in seasons 5 and 6) and major abandonment issues (always, and which directly lead to things like kleptomania and whininess)?

I have a feeling we're never going to make each other see the other's POV here, though. :argue: 😉
 
Yeah, agree to disagree. I don't mind how many people like her. As long as she's dead, I'm satisfied.:grim:
 
S
Skytteflickan88
But Buffy and Xander and the others would be sad :´(
Don said:
I imagine what we're referring to, here, with Buffy taking advantage of somebody who loves her, are her actions towards Spike before season 7. If we're referring to sex, she wasnt taking advantage of him--she was just getting laid, and if we're to believe Joss Whedon, then she was in love with Spike at that point, and so was not taking advantage of him.
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When did Joss say that? Or was it implied?

Dawn is just a whiny little brat all the time. While Willow tried to end the world once out of compassion, Giles immediately withdrew his decision to abandon Buffy in OMwF, and Buffy, arguably, wasn't taking advantage of Spike sexually at all, Dawn is just a whiny little brat, and she's consistent about it.

Her time has come.
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Not to split hairs, it really got nothing to do with Dawn, but Giles did leave the episode after.

And not that I'm on Spike's side or anything, but Buffy really did take advantage of Spike. She had no intention whatsoever to make their relationship (or whatever one wants to call it) pemanent, she was using him, because she needed him. Of course, he used her right back.
 
Don said:
Buffy was in love with Spike the moment their hands clasped. -- Joss Whedon (San Diego Convention) http://www.darkhorse.com/Help/Boards/viewtopic.php?t=12374
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Oh, when I read the quote somewhere else I think it was "love" not "in love". Could be either way I suppose, since people can quote wrong(but I'm leaning to "in love").

We have no idea when Buffy feel in love tough, it could have happened anytime. And even if Buffy was in love with Spike in season 6, she was still using him, since she had no intention for them to actually date. For her it was sex, for him it was love.
 
MinwaraYana
MinwaraYana
Love your sig. Of course, you know I would love it. ;) Tell me when the magazine is done.
You know, this whole conversation has led me to realize that if Dawn doesn't die tomorrow, or this season at all, I'm going to be kind of disappointed. I mean, it'd be good motivation for Buffy to do... I don't know, do whatever she wants to do this season I guess. I'm a little uncertain of where season 8 is headed, and whether or not I just wish things would've stopped at 7, as great as it is to be able to look forward to Buffy again. I guess that if Dawn died, though, I'd be ok with whatever season 8 manages to screw up.

Or Kennedy. She sucks too.

So, Dawn or Kennedy. I'd be pleased if either of them died.

But Dawn more.


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh what if Tara showed up and killed Kennedy?

Yeah, man. YEAH.
 
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