"No fair going into the ring..."

Gum Gnome33

"Well, yeah..."
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Jan 10, 2011
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Sineya
"Unless he tags you."

I've always been so intrigued by this micro-scene between Spike and Dru in Passion, and I haven't seen it discussed here. Giles is attacking Angelus and the two of them are looking on--Dru wants to fight, too. It's one of those "blink and you miss it" moments but to me it speaks volumes.

Why would an old master vamp care at all whether it was "fair" for Drusilla to go in and "help" Angelus kill Giles? Buffy isn't in the scene yet, so it isn't a matter of safety. And he uses the word "fair" as if there is some sort of ethical code among vampires regarding fighting, (which we can pretty much assume there isn't). So what's going on?

-Is it because Spike already has feelings for Buffy? Certainly it isn't much longer until Dru confronts him about his feelings in front of that drippy antler-demon. So is that the motivation behind this? On some level, Spike doesn't want Giles to die because he doesn't want Buffy to lose him? Probably he has no idea that he feels this way, but if Dru could sense it just a few months later it would make sense that he feels it, here.

-Is it simply because Spike loves the idea of a good fight and doesn't see any value in an easy kill? And in this case, "no fair" really means "no fun?" I'm tempted to think this isn't the case because "fair" was used for a reason. I really think we are supposed to pay attention to the fact that a vampire is using the word "fair."

Anyway, I'm wondering if the point of this interaction is to tell us something about how Spike feels about Buffy, (which of course we will only understand in retrospect--certainly not at the time), how he feels about fighting/killing in general, or his overall humanity --is it simply another example of how much of it he has retained, as he goes around declaring that something is unfair, or that he loves Drusilla?

Any thoughts?
 
I don't think Spike believed Giles to be that much of a threat so thought Angel could handle it. There was no fun in joining in so left Angel to do the job.
 
I thought the same as [MENTION=262]FaithsFollower[/MENTION]. I had just assumed that he would rather Angelus die if possible, and certainly Angelus' death would be preferable to Dru's.
 
I agree with the last two posts. Spike hated Angelus; Angelus was always taunting Spike; and Spike was hoping that Giles would kill Angelus. After which, Spike and Dru would kill Giles. And, even if Giles couldn't kill Angelus (which to Spike probably seemed more likely) he was enjoying the sight of Angelus getting creamed with a flaming baseball bat, at least for a while.
 
Valjavertjinn
Valjavertjinn
[No message]
I agree that Spike was just enjoying seeing Angelus get his butt kicked around a bit. He didn't care either way about Giles, and I really don't think that he has any feelings for Buffy at this point. Other than wanting her dead.
 
At that time, Spike was still far too intimidated by Angelus to risk directly attacking him (hence the unthinkable alliance with the Slayer later) but he would almost certainly not interfere if anyone else took him on, and he wouldn't allow anyone else to help, either.
 
Wow it's funny--it never occurred to me that his reasoning was that Giles would kill Angelus. It makes sense, in theory, but why would Spike think that Giles stood any chance against Angelus? Also, why would he be worried about Dru's safety against Giles? She's a master vampire and she's got another one backing her up against...Giles. I think it might be just as simple as this:

At that time, Spike was still far too intimidated by Angelus to risk directly attacking him (hence the unthinkable alliance with the Slayer later) but he would almost certainly not interfere if anyone else took him on

And this:

he was enjoying the sight of Angelus getting creamed with a flaming baseball bat, at least for a while.

Makes sense. I still think something more was going on there. But then again I always do. 🙂

I really don't think that he has any feelings for Buffy at this point. Other than wanting her dead.

It does seem unlikely, but if you consider that just a couple months later Drusilla knew that he had feelings, it doesn't seem like a far reach to say that he had them at this point--just wasn't aware of them.
 
-Is it because Spike already has feelings for Buffy? Certainly it isn't much longer until Dru confronts him about his feelings in front of that drippy antler-demon. So is that the motivation behind this? On some level, Spike doesn't want Giles to die because he doesn't want Buffy to lose him? Probably he has no idea that he feels this way, but if Dru could sense it just a few months later it would make sense that he feels it, here.

At this point in S2, the writers weren't planning on having Spike fall in love with Buffy. So it was just Spike enjoying the sight of Angelus getting his ass kicked by BA Giles with a flaming baseball bat. He wouldn't want to help Angelus anyway.
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
[No message]
At this point in S2, the writers weren't planning on having Spike fall in love with Buffy. So it was just Spike enjoying the sight of Angelus getting his ass kicked by BA Giles with a flaming baseball bat. He wouldn't want to help Angelus anyway.

I mostly agree, but the issue I have is that now we know that the feelings were likely there so it's hard to re-watch the scene without acknowledging that. But yeah, it's that whole "what the writers knew at the time" vs actual canon. (I do think Joss knew but I know that doesn't mean that the writers did.)
It drives me crazy when writers add new information and don't expect us to consider that that was happening when we watch older episodes!
 
I think part of it was he was hoping Giles would kill Angelus. And part of it was he wanted to protect Dru. He didn't want even the risk of her getting hurt. Even when he's in love with Dru, he's still Spike in love. A big giant sweetie pie.
 
I believe that was after he had the truce/made ally of Buffy

He couldn't let Giles die. (Or Buffy would go after Dru.. I forget)
 
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