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Blondie Bear

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I'm watching this episode right now, and I'm a bit confused about Dawn's behavior. I understand her being upset about Buffy's accusations, but why in the world does she start acting like she's really out to hurt Joyce? Especially when Buffy isn't around? It almost makes sense when she tells Buffy, "You really think I care you're the Slayer?" She wants Buffy to take her seriously, and if Buffy thinks she's a threat, she'll take her seriously. But Joyce has no idea what's going on. So what's with the whole tea thing? You know, where Dawn's acting like the super-sweet child with an underlying menace? There doesn't seem to be any reason for it other than the writers trying to fake us out.

Am I wrong? Is there a good reason for it? Any ideas?
 
That faked me out too. I thought she was the bad guy. I was actually cheering when Buffy was manhandling (sp?) her. "YES! Kill the evil teenager beast!" LOL
 
I always think the exact same thing about that scene too!

It really makes you think that there is more to Dawn that just a teenage girl, it's almost like a double bluff because she was something else, but just not 'evil' or out to harm Joyce or anyone. I think they just wanted us to think Dawn was going to be some bad, evil thing as at that point we didn't know what she truly was.

Or maybe not & we're just reading more into it... 'lol'
 
That was my thought exactly. I know I'm going to get jumped for this, but it seemed out of Dawn's character to act like that. There was no in-show reason for it, only a meta-show reason, and that's often a sign of bad writing. If Dawn had an actual reason that we had been shown--if, for example, she was trying to become Mommy's favorite in order to undermine Buffy's influence with Joyce for some reason--it would make a lot more sense. But later in the episode (after we find out that Dawn's an innocent), she's right back to being normal Dawn, sulking and all. So it seems that the writers only made her all sneaky and menacing to fake us out, which is NOT a great writing technique.
 
Blondie Bear said:
If Dawn had an actual reason that we had been shown--if, for example, she was trying to become Mommy's favorite in order to undermine Buffy's influence with Joyce for some reason--it would make a lot more sense.
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Actually if you go back and watch it a few times with that very thought in mind, it makes perfect sense. She was always fighting for her mothers attention because Buffy as the Slayer got all of her mothers concern. You can see it in later episodes, especially when Joyce gets sick and Buffy made her breakfast, Dawn takes the credit for it.
 
scobro said:
Actually if you go back and watch it a few times with that very thought in mind, it makes perfect sense. She was always fighting for her mothers attention because Buffy as the Slayer got all of her mothers concern. You can see it in later episodes, especially when Joyce gets sick and Buffy made her breakfast, Dawn takes the credit for it.
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That's this episode, actually. And she may be attempting to do just that, but then she doesn't follow up on it. If she had, it would have given us a visible reason for her actions in this episode. Otherwise, it just looks like manipulation of our thoughts on the part of the writers.

Also, it doesn't explain the underlying menace. It explains the sucking up, making tea, acting all sweet, but it doesn't explain why she has that smirk, like she's about to poison Joyce or something.
 
Blondie Bear said:
Also, it doesn't explain the underlying menace. It explains the sucking up, making tea, acting all sweet, but it doesn't explain why she has that smirk, like she's about to poison Joyce or something.
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The underlying menace is only there because you opt to view it that way. The smirk over the tea was that she did something for her mother and Buffy didn't. She was smirking because she was being the supportive daughter instead of Buffy. Watch it again with no illusions and she is not behaving any differently. She is still being the normal, nosey, self-centered brat sister that she always was.

There was no "menace" until AFTER the spell was cast. It was just easier to let your doubts run wild after the spell was cast.
 
This tea thing HAPPENED after the spell was cast. Hence the menace. It happened after Dawn said "Do you really think I care you're the Slayer?" and "Mom will be home soon" and all the other vaguely threatening things she said. The point I'm trying to make is that there shouldn't have been any menace EVER. It doesn't make logical, character, or plot sense for it to be there.
 
Blondie Bear said:
This tea thing HAPPENED after the spell was cast. Hence the menace. It happened after Dawn said "Do you really think I care you're the Slayer?" and "Mom will be home soon" and all the other vaguely threatening things she said. The point I'm trying to make is that there shouldn't have been any menace EVER. It doesn't make logical, character, or plot sense for it to be there.
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I know it happened after.. my point is there was only menace because you allowed yourself to see it. In the first episode with Dawn she is caterwauling about everyone thinks Buffy is special just because she is the Slyer etc. So that "Do you really think I care you're the Slayer?" fits. Buffy was leaving Dawn alone, as there was no babysitter, which she was told not to do so "Mom will be home soon" line fits.

It makes perfect sense. It is easy to read too much into it. Same with Fred's parents in the episode of Angel. Everyone assumed THEY were evil as well.
 
If two other very smart, insightful members hadn't also seen the menace in Dawn's words and actions, I might be inclined to think it was just me. But obviously it's not just me, and I'm not reading more into it than is there.

As for Fred's parents, I never thought they were evil. I figured Fred had gone through a lot and there was something up, but I didn't think her parents were the cause of it.
 
Have also reacted to that, especially the tea thing.

Always has kinda ignored it as a cheap way to fool us to think that Dawn was evil.
Don't think I bought it the first time either, it felt a bit too obvious.

I agree with Blondie Bear. It doesn't feel like the best writing ever on the show...

/SK
 
Blondie Bear said:
If two other very smart, insightful members hadn't also seen the menace in Dawn's words and actions, I might be inclined to think it was just me. But obviously it's not just me, and I'm not reading more into it than is there.
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But you have to admit with the points I made that she was not acting out of character, she was very much IN character, and you still fell for it. Ergo, the writing was not bad but very good.
 
I say the writing is bad because the writers stepped out of the logic and continuity of what was ACTUALLY HAPPENING to make us think something ELSE was happening. If they had just slightly tweaked our perception of what was actually happening to make us think something else was happening, that would have been good writing. But they didn't. They ignored the fact that Dawn was an innocent, if annoying, little girl to make us think--for a few minutes--that she was the thing that was threatening Joyce, when in fact Dawn had no intention or reason to hurt Joyce--and hence no reason to ACT LIKE she was going to by making threatening remarks at Buffy and acting weird around Joyce.
 
Blondie Bear said:
I say the writing is bad because the writers stepped out of the logic and continuity of what was ACTUALLY HAPPENING to make us think something ELSE was happening.
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Red herrings have existed since Shakespeare. Logic and continuity were not stepped out of, the only thing that happened differently was the spell.

If the spell had never happened, and it was never revealed that Dawn was "different" then your opinion of everything else would not be as it is now.

The viewer (I will not say you as it was not just a 'you' case) chose to see what they wanted to see. Albeit which was thru the eyes of Buffy.
 
Um . . . I think we as the viewer KNEW that Dawn was different and that HOW would be revealed eventually, whether or not we knew before Buffy did.
 
Okay, you know what? You watch it your way and I'll watch it mine, cause I started this thread to discuss possible reasons why Dawn would have been acting the way she was acting, not to get into a "You're stupid cause you don't agree with my interpretation" fight.
 
I'll tell you the part that bugged me, perhaps more than the smirk and the tea was when Joyce asks where Buffy is and Dawn blows it off as she's out and not to worry.

It seemed so weird with how she, Buffy and Joyce had ALL been acting where Dawn couldn't be left "alone" and had to be with someone all the time and it seemed like 1.) Joyce would have been MAD to come home and find Dawn all alone when she was just stepping out for a little bit and was sick and 2.) Dawn, if not a menacing evil child, would have been trying to get her in TROUBLE!

Even if she wanted to be "all grown up" and able to stay alone. Heck, when I was at that age, if MY SISTER had just left and left me all alone, I'd have been playing it ALL UP for Mom and Dad just to get her in MORE trouble, if I could.

It was the "Oh don't worry about Buffy, we're all alone and I have such big teeth to eat you with, my dear" thing that really threw me.

I agree, it was a cheap trick.
HOWEVER, for seeing it the first time, one I forgave QUICKLY once I realized that also in the episode they explain that the "adding the younger sister that we've never heard of before" was NOT the even bigger cheap trick that I had thought it was going to be.
 
B
Blondie Bear
Last time I checked, I had some tendencies toward obsessive-compulsivity and schizoid behavior, but not enough to be considered a disorder . . . so no, I'm NOT some crazy person.
Blondie Bear said:
Okay, you know what? You watch it your way and I'll watch it mine, cause I started this thread to discuss possible reasons why Dawn would have been acting the way she was acting, not to get into a "You're stupid cause you don't agree with my interpretation" fight.
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I never said you were stupid. I explained those reasons why she was acting 'differently' as well. The only thing I disagree with you on is that the writing was bad.
 
The only reason it seems menacing is because you are viewing it like that. scobro is right. Dawn is completely within character for the whole episode. If that entire section had been placed outwith the context of "Dawn is evil, look how evil Dawn is", no-one would have a problem. There is no point in discussing reasons why she was acting evil. She wasn't. Every incidence of her appearing threatening can be easily reconciled with her want to be noticed, her fighting with Buffy for Joyce's love (not that Joyce wasn't loving them both equally, of course), and her wanting to appear grown up. It's not exactly subtle writing, but it isn't bad writing.
 
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