No Santa For The Whedonverse

[white avenger]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that there has never actually been any sort of Christmas story in any of Joss' series? The closest that he comes is "Amends," in Season 3, and I'm not really sure that it really qualifies. Granted, he's a very outspoken Atheist, but still, even Scrooge eventually saw the true meaning of Christmas, without a single mention of the Christian significance of the holiday. Why do you think that Joss saw fit to not have even a single Christmas episode anywhere?

 

[Blaze]

Well..we do know Santa Claus exists! Courtesy of Anya who knows the guy.

But as for why we never got a true Christmas episode, I think at least part of it is related to religion. Joss is an atheist, and we don't know the religion of any of the characters (correct me if I'm wrong) aside from Willow who is jewish. The show was also never big on holidays, we got to see a few halloweens, which makes sense because vampires! We got to see one thanksgiving, a few birthdays, and one kind of Christmas. It fallows well with the rest of the series when it comes to holidays.

 

[thetopher]

I don't know- if Leperachans are now real (see the latest comic) then everything's out the window. I see Easter Bunny (some sort of fertility/spring-time demon), Father Christmas and his little elves and everybody else.

As for Anya's description of Father Christmas- that could very well be a reference to the Krampus. Like ol' Nic he's originally a pagan figure (that got dropped by Christianity) who punishes (or kills) naughty children just like Father Christmas rewards good ones- I think Anya got her folk tales mixed up, the ditz. 😉

Also I would point out that 'Amends' isn't just about 'ol' broody pants', Willow is with Oz, Faith goes to Buffy's house and has a nice time with Joyce, its about being together with the people you care about.
I think that's a pretty nice Christmas message without bringing any sort of religion into it. 🙂

 

[Fuffy Baith]

I'm going to say that it's because there is no story to tell on Christmas. If it's an episode we are going to watch then something has to happen. Whether it's monsters or just drama, there would have to be something that occurs at that time in order for us to see it. We don't see every Halloween every year presumably because nothing interesting happened those years. Also it would get repetitive. Would we rather see the Scoobies have a terrible holiday or just assume that they had a nice Christmas where they don't have to worry about monsters and demons and the apocalypse. It could be that Joss is atheist, it could be that the studio didn't want to get involved in the religious aspects of it, but I'd say it's about story telling.

 

[Taake]

I think it's more related to the fact that Christmas specials are often kind of cheesy and have some special Christmasy message in them (i.e. they don't necessarily follow the arc of the show and can be hard to fit into that). So I'm not sure it has to do with Joss' atheism. Granted as an atheist myself I'm biased and don't see a conflict with celebrating Christmas/ creating Christmas episodes.

I just don't feel that Buffy is all that suited for Christmas specials. With the exception of Halloween we don't really see any holidays on the show. Well there was one Thanksgiving... but otherwise no memorial days of any kinds, no Easter, no 4th of July, no New Years... Christmas is not the only holiday getting stiffed in the Whedonverse.

 

[Tome]

Well, there's also the fact that the show rarely aired right around Christmas except in S3 (Amends). That's also why there was never an episode on the 4th of July (which I think would have been a good idea). Usually the timeline on the show tried to follow the real world timeline. Also, I think that the story taking place in California lessened the chance for Christmas stories since - at least for me - snow is a big part of the magic of the holidays. 😉

 

[JCoatsworth]

I don't think it has anything to do with Whedon's personal beliefs. I'm an atheist and I love Christmas. To me, it's about spending time with my family, my friends and eating awesome food. I even know Muslims who kind of celebrate Christmas.
I think they just never really came up with a good Christmas themed story. Maybe it just didn't fit. I really doubt this has anything to do with Joss being an atheist or agnostic. The characters don't reflect all of his personal opinions and beliefs, and they shouldn't. He's also not the only writer on the show. Buffy's family is supposed to be a kind of ordinary American family, so it's very reasonable to think that they do celebrate Christmas every year.

 

[white avenger]

Buffy's family is supposed to be a kind of ordinary American family, so it's very reasonable to think that they do celebrate Christmas every year.

I just thought that the part of "Amends" about Faith coming to the Summers' home for Christmas could have been expanded, could even have been the major theme of the episode. Nothing about the Angel guilt trip and attempted suicide by sunlight thing was really all that necessary at that time. It could have taken place anytime.

 

[thetopher]

I always thought the flashback at the start of 'The Body' was the Scoobies all celebrating Christmas at Buffy's house. There are references to nog, lots of food, and Santa Claus- so that shows that they all did get together and celebrate during that holiday- everybody was there, even with Joyce and Giles acting as sorto parental figures (debating whether to open more wine and such)
It's just that 'Amends' is where something remarkable and supernatural happens.

And I agree that 'Amends' ins't just about Angel and the First guilt-tripping him, I actually like the Oz/Willow stuff and Buffy/Faith stuff a little bit more.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

If Whedon is atheist as suggested that's a pretty good reason to not represent Christmas in his work even in commercial form.
Let's say an English class is assigned an essay requiring the students to describe the origin of a holiday of their choosing. A Jewish student is probably not going to chose to write about Christmas unless they want to explore their beliefs and likewise a Catholic student won't choose to write about Hanukkah.
To represent/practice a holiday in any way is an allegiance of it's origin even if you choose to ignore it and Whedon probably didn't want his beliefs questioned or solicited by portraying something that he's supposed to be against in his work.

Since I'm a Cangel fan would you question me for not ever writing a Bangel fanfiction?

Well..we do know Santa Claus exists! Courtesy of Anya who knows the guy.

Actually she specifically uses the name 'Father Christmas' who in origin is a different figure from Santa Claus. Father Christmas originated in English Pagan lore as a 'yule tide visitor' dressed in green who was the embodiment of the winter solstice and was firstly known as Father Winter or Father Frost. He is believed to be one of multiple forms taken by the god, Odin and it was thought that by welcoming him into one's home on December 6th and offering him food and drink a less harsh winter would be granted as reward.

The Ghost of Christmas Past character in Dickens' 'A Christmas Carol' as illustrated by John Leech was designed around this Father Christmas figure.

It wasn't until the 1870's that America begun to associate the name with the Santa Clause figure. Coca-Cola was actually a large part of this, I believe it was them who'd changed his outfit from green to red.

http://www.timetravel-britain.com/articles/christmas/santa.shtml
http://www.christmasarchives.com/england.html

Though considering if memory serves that Anya had a negative notion of the figure she spoke of it's more likely she was referring incorrectly to Krampus. Krampus is Santa's dark counterpart. While Santa rewarded the well behaved children with gifts Krampus was said to be the yule-tide visitor of the naughty children who would leave them coal, beat them and in some versions take them to hell shackled and stuffed in a sack.

http://thefairytaletraveler.com/2013/12/21/the-dark-side-of-christmas-the-legend-of-krampus/
http://www.halloweenartists.com/krampus_event.htm
http://www.krampus.com/who-is-krampus.php

 

[dillonk47polik]

The only true Christmas-sy type episode may have been "Amends", but does anyone remember the christmas commercial? At least we got that right? 😉