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No Spuffy In Season 5: My Theory

Discussion in 'Season 5' started by white avenger, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    Okay, we all know how Season 5 of "Angel" starts out. Angel and his crew take over W&H, a mysterious package arrives, and out pops Spike, whose first wish upon returning to the world of the undead is to find Buffy. Problem is, he's incorporeal and bound to the LA area. A few weeks pass, he becomes solid again, but he decides to stay and "help" Angel, rather than go in search of the woman he loves. Why? No real reason is given. That presents a great opportunity for the creation of another White Avenger Conspiracy Theory. So, here goes.

    The most obvious first question that pops into my mind is, why didn't somebody notify Buffy that Spike had returned? We all know why Angel wouldn't have done it. His old "greater good" catchall would work perfectly here, specifically, the greater good would be served if the guy who Buffy just told him was "in her heart" wasn't a competitor for Slayer cookies.

    But, what about everyone else? Surely, someone would have tried to contact the Sunnydale team to let them know that one of their own was not really dead, and might find the assistance of the witch who retrieved Angel's soul for him less that a year before. Well, I think that someone actually did try, and I think that I know who, and why he was unsuccessful in his efforts.

    Almost certainly, Wes would have had a way to contact Giles, and that's what I think happened just as soon as Wes could have managed it. So, why didn't Giles tell Buffy? Obviously, Giles, the surrogate father who "wanted so much more" for Buffy, who went so far as to kill Spike against Buffy's wishes, and probably feels pretty much the same way about Angel snuggling back up with with Buffy, either. Giles, who probably still stung from having the door slammed in his face by his pseudo daughter. That Giles. You just KNOW he's gonna rush out to give Buffy the good news, right? More likely, he would have told Wes to let him handle everything when the time was right, and not to worry about it anymore.

    Why didn't Spike go hunting for Buffy as soon as he became corporeal? "Something big's comin' mate. You know it. I know it." Spike honestly felt that he was needed in LA, and where better for Buffy's Champion to be, but where the action was? So, why didn't he at least call her to tell her that he was back? Probably because there's no area code for "somewhere in Europe," and you just KNOW Giles would be more than happy to give him her number and address, right? More likely, he would have set up a phony Buffy in some big city (Rome, maybe) complete with a hot, fresh boyfriend (the Immortal, maybe) and get Andrew to join in on the conspiracy.

    That leaves us with the question of how did Buffy find out that Spike was back, and why did sne not try and contact him then? The most obvious answer would be that she only found out when Angel and his crew fought the W&H army in "Not Fade Away," and that was the cause of her and Giles having their big split up.

    So, there's my theory. Feel free to comment, whether you agree or disagree. I would be interested in what others think of my latest Conspiracy Theory.
     
    flow likes this.
  2. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    My theory is a lot simpler. It does not really contradict anything you say here. I think Spike is afraid Buffy will reject her. He tried his best to be the man she wanted, and she found him lacking. He killed himself to prove he was sincere, but now he is mysteriously brought back to life. That is the explanation Spike himself gives, and it makes sense to me.

    I don't think Spike would wanna meet Buffy again without some plan to win back her affections. Like, rolling in on a spaceship manned by bugs to save the day from the evil of Angel. Something life that.
     
    Kana, Priceless, GoSpuffy and 2 others like this.
  3. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    My thoughts exactly. His sacrifice is lessened by his mysterious resurrection.
     
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  4. flow

    flow Will you just hold me ?

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    That made me laugh ot loud ! Thanks !

    I don`t know about Wes. I like him a lot. But he has never been that close to Buffy and he never even knew Spike before he materialized right before his eyes. I don`t think he is close to Giles either because when they later in the season try to contact Giles to save Fred it is Angel who is talking to him on the phone not Wes.

    Wesley might just not have thought it necessary to tell Buffy about Spike being back. He would have guessed if were an important piece of information Spike or Angel would have told her themselves.

    Awwwwwwww.....good question.

    The real answer is, that SMG wasn`t a member of the AtS cast. There was no way they could get her even for one episode. He couldn`t find her because the actress was not available.

    My "Buffyverse Answer" would be something like this:

    At the very end of Chosen he tells her she doesn`t love hi. i believe he does that because he wants to free her of the burden of another love that fails and another lover who abandons her (even if the lover Abandons her this time not by turning evil but by sacrificing himself to save the world).

    When he comes back 19 days later he is not corporeal. He cannot even pick up a phone reciever. He cannot leave Wolfram & Hart. He would be a burden to her and he is afraid she might feel obliged to come for his ghostly self only because he has saved the world. Thus he is biding his time until he is corporeal again, which is, if I recall it rightly about three month later. By then he has had too much time to think about it. All his insecuritey, and those years of unrequited love come crashing back on him. And maybe he just starts to believe his own words. He starts to believe what he never meant, when he said it to her. He starts to believe that she doesn`t love him.

    Plus, he doesn`t even know who he is except that he is the man who loves her. But that is not enough for a healthy relationship. He needs to find out who he is and what he wants to do with his unlife apart for being in love with Buffy. And he finds that on AtS. He is fighting the good fight, it is something he is brilliant at and he finds respect and even friendship through it. I am sorry I cannot really explain this in english but it is necessary for him at this point to find the purpose of his existence, which has to be more than just to love another person.

    I am not reading the comics but I don`t believe she shared a flat with Andrew in Rome during TGiQ and gave Angel and Spike this crappy "She loves you both but you have to move on" message through him. I believe she never found out Spike was back until the end of AtS.

    That leaves me with a question for the comic readers: When do they first meet again and how ?

    flow
     
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  5. Spuffy freak

    Spuffy freak Potential

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    I think this is their first meeting in the comic and the first time this topic is addressed (slightly). She said I m sorry for not being in touch so it might be that it's not their first meeting or I might have missed something as I am still not really far in the comics but still I found this scene very disappointing but in the next issue Buffy keeps imagining hot stuff with Spike when he is not even flirting with her so it pretty much made it up to me :p About the Giles theory it might be true really because Buffy was cold towards him in season 8
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Stoney

    Stoney Spiked!

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    An interesting theory. I can certainly see Giles deciding to not pass on the information to Buffy and it playing its part in continuing to keep distance between them. I'm not sure about Wes contacting Giles though, just because he wouldn't be very willing to being quizzed/judged by the older watcher. But I think if no one contacted the gang to let them know it would have just been because they didn't want to get involved and figured either Angel or Spike himself would get in touch eventually. Buffy probably heard on the grapevine or eventually from Andrew post AtS.

    As I said on the other Spuffy thread which prompted you posting your theory, I put the fact neither sought out the other at first down to both of their insecurities and uncertainties and that is mostly why they stayed away from each other for so long. Of course in truth, it was largely because the network insisted on Spike staying in AtS and Buffy wasn't a cast member. :p

    But it works well enough that they would both be uncertain about seeing each other again. Spike made the grand gesture of sacrificing himself for the greater good and does fear that it diminishes it if he just rolls up again. I do think he didn't believe Buffy really loved him and showing up again would open the possibility for awkwardness and rejection. So there is fear of that, on top of not being certain what he should do now. Spike spends a lot of AtS 5 considering the path he can walk now. He isn't sure what his worth is and how to be heroic. It is very like Angel was in AtS 1 in many ways and why the way Lindsey plays him works logically and why he is turning to Angel for an example. He basically is wanting guidance. In BtVS he returned to Buffy and joined her fight willingly, but now he doesn't feel he can just return and slot in again. He doesn't want to lessen what he had achieved with her before and he wants a sense of purpose to go back with I think.

    It takes time for Spike to gain some confidence in himself as a hero, to walk the path a little and feel more confidence in coming back. In AtS he largely fell once again to the comfort zone of a dramatic gesture and followed the (imo foolish) plan for a moment of glory ending again. He started to work after that on finding his own path somewhat and he started to gain experience and meet people, help people under his own steam. When he eventually had a reason to roll up again, a genuine reason and purpose to go to Buffy with a way that he could help rather than just tag himself in, he did. Yes it came with swagger and drama and defensiveness because those are his default fallbacks to try and protect himself emotionally.

    As far as Buffy was concerned he had rejected her ILY and she may well have wondered herself if it was the heat of the moment. I think Joss' direction for SMG in Chosen was that Buffy means it when she tells him. Personally I think she did mean it, but perhaps not in the sense that she would have wanted to pursue a romantic relationship at that point and so this adds to her uncertainty over seeing him again. But anyway, it doesn't change the fact that he denied it and then he chose to not return to her when he came back to life. From her point of view I can see why she didn't rush off to find him when she found out and was then incredibly snippy and defensive when he finally arrives in the fallout of one of her biggest mistakes.

    But once they were back around each other they started to get a sense again of each other's feelings and it was somewhat stop/start and a little bit bumpy but it has eventually developed into a functioning and healthy relationship. :)

    I think Andrew's comment was his dramatisation of it all, you know how he likes to weave a tale. As for Buffy being in Rome, the comics explained away the whole Buffy/Rome/Immortal fiasco by saying that there were doubles of Buffy in different locations to hide her whereabouts and the 'Buffy' in Rome with the Immortal wasn't really her.

    Spike arrives in his bug manned spaceship in the aftermath of the world destroying disaster Buffy and Angel caused by having universe creating sex in space. Typical Sunday really. :D

    It's a little hard to sum up but essentially Angel was fooled into believing he was acting for the greater good, was sometimes actually being possessed by 'Twilight', and Buffy was emotionally beaten down during the season so that she was made vulnerable to also being influenced into this sex/universe prophecy with Angel. When Spike recognises Angel on the news he finds information out about the prophecy and comes to help rescue them and pull the situation back under control. Buffy comes onto the ship and is very snippy and dismissive with him, clearly defensive about the situation that he has walked in on, and he is pretty snippy back about what a delight it is for him considering what he is walking in on the results of. The reunion is certainly less than positive and is dominated by the need to deal with the current situation.

    Spike ends up going off in the bug ship after a demon in the end and then the web comic that Jane Espenson wrote to fall between the end of S8 and the start of S9 shows his later return. It is far more of a Spuffy 'ah' moment as there is still uncertainty and defences are still pretty sky high, but Buffy does appear at the end when he has returned and asks him if he is staying, if he is 'home' now (or some such). Cue a season of tiptoeing around each other and probing a little at their own and the other's feelings before Spike briefly leaves yet again and then gains some personal perspective on not hanging everything on one person. It is a good point of development as he had already realised that he didn't want to keep wandering and wanted to belong, so when Dawn being in danger pulls him back because she matters to him too, he starts to actually build a life around/with the scoobies and stops living on the edges. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  7. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    He probably wouldn't. But as a former Watcher and colleague (though probably not friend) Wes would have assumed that the news of Spike being back would be important to Giles, if for no other reason than that Spike had obviously been a valuable member of Buffy's team. He probably wouldn't have known about all of the details of the last year in Sunnydale, so he would have had no reason not to expect Giles to pass the information on to Buffy.
     
  8. Spuffy freak

    Spuffy freak Potential

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    I read somewhere that she was supposed to make a cameo on the last episode of Angel but she could not make it because of her working on the grudge. Does anyone have any idea what have they written for her? Like was she going to actually choose one guy or was going to give that lame speech that Andrew gave about her loving them both but they need to move on?
     
  9. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy BFF of Sour Patch Kid

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    Sineya
    I think she would have played the role Connor did and helped Angel in the battle vs Hamilton. But I'm sure they would have rewritten the last day stories for Angel and Spike if Sarah was there. As far as choosing someone goes, there is no way Joss would want closure like that. He ended both series by trying to leave it open for future stories.