No thread for Riley?

[Silum]

Link please?

Captain Cardboard, or How I Learned To Stop Seething And Love - Buffy-Boards

Well worth the read imo.

 

[Wanabee-slayer]

I find Riley as an individual incredibly bland but when I look at his relationship with Buffy I always get a little smile on my face. I think as a couple they worked well together but I must admit I wasn't overly sad when he left the show!

 

[Professor Walsh]

Captain Cardboard, or How I Learned To Stop Seething And Love - Buffy-Boards

Well worth the read imo.

Even if the article is neat, I still lean towards "As You Were" just being a badly written episode. There are good dialogue bits in it (love the "our wedding is not our marriage"-talk between Xander and Anya) and good ideas, but it just doesn't work. My take on it? I think it's a case of the team forgetting to kill their darlings. I think they wanted the idea to work so much that they got a bit blind to the plot holes. But then I have a weak spot for Riley (and I liked the missus, too), so it's not as if though I am unbiased.

 

[Silum]

Sorry for going offtopic mods, the threads in the 'cemetery' is all

I have always viewed TV and Film as an interpreted medium. Where we fill the holes and decide for ourselves where things make sense and how to actually make sense of plot holes. (In fact, its why I positively ignore when people use 'Joss quotes' to try and make their point when I can see for myself). The truth is, this is one episode where things dont make sense, where tons of people notice it too, and where the writers understand that Riley is not a well liked character. This leads me to believe that it could have been possible for the writers to have inserted this underlying interpretation...but I don't need that to be the case. At the end of the day, it fills the plot holes perfectly and makes sense.

It's not some small issue either, heck I was just reading another random thread on this episode and Revolver asks the question too! ...

I'd say the bigger issue in that episode is how the hell Spike manages to become this "Doctor" who can sell these demons to foreign governments. The dude is basically shunned by the demon community for helping Buffy and killing other vampires, he never leaves Sunnydale throughout this time, and is shown throughout season four to be absolutely desperate for cash and blood but we're supposed to believe he can get access to these breeding demons and has high profile contacts to sell them to? Right.

Riley left as a jerk (imo, see previous post), and returned under very strange circumstances. Not sure I should really trust him.

 

[Flannen]

I didn't like Riley when I was younger, but I do now. At the start of season 4 he's a bit of a wimpy guy but he grew on me.

As I get older, the more I think about, the more frustrated I get with the writing inconsistency of the whole relationship. I think they kind of starting backtracking in season five.

The trouble came in his ability to have strength in himself in the end. I get that a lot of this is blamed on Buffy (especially by Xander) but imo that isn't remotely true. Buffy was dealing with the sickness of her mother, in fact, that is the only time we really see her neglect Rileys feelings. It wasn't ever about actually neglecting Riley either, it was more her focus on her mother...If Riley truly "wanted to be there" for her as he stated, he should have made that exceptional effort to do so. Thats what you do when things are going crappy for your other half. He understood the situation but became needy of Buffys intimacy exactly at the point she was unable to give it.

This is something I saw a bit in the other thread about Riley and as much as I see this point, I still disagree with it on some level. You're right that is what you do for your other half, but it is so tough when they don't let you in. It's not that Riley didn't want to be there for Buffy, she didn't let him, she didn't want him to be. She was always pushing him away and you can't blame the guy for wanting something from her, some kind of attention/intimacy. A relationship is about leaning on your other half and going to them for comfort and support which is something that Buffy didn't do.

I don't condone his interactions with the female vampires, at all, but I don't blame him for leaving. The 'ultimatum' scene is possibly one of the times I find Buffy the most annoying, as a character, which I very rarely do.

I don't see him as a bland character either, I thought he was quite interesting, and I loved him when he returned in season six, he was an example to Buffy of how she needed to mature and I was happy that he had grown to be a better person.

Also, I don't think Riley was so much 'jealous' of Buffy being stronger than him, I think it was just unnatural to him in some ways. He was a traditional guy who felt his role was to protect his woman and I think he reacted against the feeling of not being in control and having to adapt to subverted general roles. Again, I don't support this view, but I think it's a discredit to say he was simply 'jealous', especially as he was also dealing with his own waning strength, and realising that the past four or however many years had been nothing but a lie.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

[Spike]is shown throughout season four to be absolutely desperate for cash

But that is exactly why it made sense to me.. he would get a boatload of cash. He has no morals or ethics, so it is not hard to imagine that if the opportunity presented itself, he would not jump at the chance to make some easy cash.

its hardly easy cash though is it!

Why not? He was just supposed to hold them (on ice, if I recall) until the buyer arrived. How hard could that be? He wasnt doing any heavy lifting.

 

[Professor Walsh]

Scobro agrees: I think it was supposed to be a 'shock' 'gasp' reveal that Spike was behind it; his body language even early on would suggest he was.

That's one of the darlings, I think. To me it seems that they really wanted to give a hefty reminder that Spike is not a good guy, and to show us that Rileys life had worked out nicely, and then combined these two without really noticing (or wanting to notice) the plot holes.

 

[caitaintdead]

So far the greatest thing about this thread was having my attention bought to that article about why Spike from framed! Cheers!

 

[Silum]

Why not? He was just supposed to hold them (on ice, if I recall) until the buyer arrived. How hard could that be? He wasnt doing any heavy lifting.

Easy money for Spike would come pretty easily, heck he mentioned on many occasions he can easily get money for Buffy when she worked in the DM Palace. The same way every other vamp never seemed to struggle for cash.. hold up a bank, punch an atm, scare a rich kid, whatever. With the 'demons he was holding for a buyer' (wasn't that a last min excuse he made up anyway? just a holding them for a 'friend')...he was a big time demon dealer, so much so he was called 'The Doctor'.... how?

I don't mind if you don't see it as 'Spike wasn't the doctor all along' but do you see the plot hole there? The demon shunned by all other demons suddenly becomes a masterful businessman with international contacts dealing in a world he can't even access?

 

[Skanky Vamp]

but do you see the plot hole there?

Not saying there wasn't a plot hole; the writers are not infallible. Though I do believe that crap that Joss spews about the cheeseman having no purpose is absurdity, but in this case I just dont see it as being a big issue. Throughout the series there have been plotholes, 'easy' writing and contradictions, I just think this is another example of that, but for some reason people seem to be going all Oliver Stone on it and are looking for a conspiracy when the answer is fairly obvious.

---------- Post added at 07:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------

Easy money for Spike would come pretty easily, heck he mentioned on many occasions he can easily get money for Buffy when she worked in the DM Palace.

Right, but that would be small potatoes compared to the money he would make.

 

[Silum]

Throughout the series there have been plotholes, 'easy' writing and contradictions, I just think this is another example of that,

I don't see these plotholes throughout the series, especially from Doug Petrie.

 

[Noir]

I liked Riley at the begining; before he start dating Buffy.
He was the rebound-guy. Always doing whatever B. ordens him to do.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I don't see these plotholes throughout the series, especially from Doug Petrie.

Scattered throughout is what I meant; didnt mean it to sound as though it was a continuous thing.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I always loved Riley, and still do. When his character was introduced, I thought he was a cutie, and I loved his interaction with Buffy. 🙂 I HATED the whole Initiative storyline, but I thought it gave him some interesting backstory.
I hated the direction the writers took Riley. And honestly, it my opinions are kinda rooted in my theory that you don't get to stay on the show if you're not up Joss Whedon's ass like a lot of the actors seem to be from the behind-the-scenes pics out there on the Net. Anyway... Buffy and Riley worked REALLY well together, and then all of a sudden he was whiny, clingy, and bordering on annoying in some episodes. He wasn't like that when we first met him and I don't know why they decided to change him up so much.

 

[Angelic Slayer]

I wasn't a huge fan of Riley when I first saw him, but the more I see episodes with him in it the more I like his character. I mean don't get me wrong I'm not a Buffy/Riley Fan, I think he was a rebound boyfriend who just wasn't with the right girl, but he seems like a genuinely nice guy who wants to do what he believes to be the right thing. He just wanted a different kind of relationship than Buffy did, and went about dealing with it the wrong way. He was still a caring, attentive, cute, charming and down-to-earth guy who was willing to give Buffy her space when she needed it. It's too bad that he never had a chance to come back to the show for any great length of time, I think he and Sam would have been a great addition to the team 🙂