Not a question about Good vs. Evil?

[Xin Rong]

If we are talking about good and evil in the buffyverse i remember reading one of my bros posts on here and he sad that the buffyverse sorta implies there is no such thing as good because there was a first evil but no first good, you could argue about the PTB where the equivilant to the first evil but then whose the equivilant to the senior partnerd. he concluded that good is the absence of evil- i don't really get it, well i do buts its mind bogglin- i think he thinks 2 much.
my view is that there is such a thing as good and evil just that evils more in your face so you notice it more- if you know what i mean- e.g. if someone does a good thing like gives money to charity little attention is given whereas if you stole from a charity everyone would have a fit and everyone would give it a lot of negative attention

 

[Wesley's Sylyna]

Some people just don't care about others. They only care about themselves.
They just want what they can't have and they do anything they can to get it.
Even kill, without remorse.

 

[Spike My Darlin]

There is no doubt in my mind that evil exists.

Most people have the capacity within themselves to be either good or evil.

But in some people's case there is no capacity for good in them at all, i.e. Osama, Hitler, any and all religious fundamentalists and some non-religious fundamentalists.

 

[eponinethen]

(I realized TODAY that embarassing mistake I made in the poll.. Ah, how annoying. I wasn't supposed to be a question, the question was supposed to be mine.. Damn. Maybe that's why no-one chose that option...)

 

[Jill_Valentine]

If I may necropost...

But in some people's case there is no capacity for good in them at all, i.e. Osama, Hitler, any and all religious fundamentalists and some non-religious fundamentalists.

But there's a problem with branding Bin Laden "Evil", the same reason I object to the rabid demonisation of Hitler. Those men absolutely believed that what they were doing was right. They didn't wake up one morning and think "Gosh, I think I'll do some evil". Hitler was a war veteran in a crippled country. Bin Laden hails from a country Amnesty International considers one of the worst human rights abusers on Earth.

Desperate people reach for a scapegoat, some problem that they can fix to make their world better. Hitler picked Jews and foreigners, and a financially collapsing Germany was desperate to believe that if they simply wiped enough of them out, things would be okay. Bin Laden sees America as a monstrous foreign tyrant, seeking to obliterate the values he holds dear. I don't consider religious fundamentalists evil - more often than not, the guy waving the rifle is being manipulated by somebody higher up the food chain, somebody who's pointed at one group or another and told him that they're the cause of his problems. In turn, the opposing side views him as evil. Both sides have "evil" defined to them, and both want to believe that the solution to their woes is so simple.

I agree with the idea that evil exists. It does, and it's committed every day. But I don't believe in purely evil people, anymore than I believe in somebody incapable of cruelty.

 

[Frenchy Faith]

Ok I can see how my question is hard to answer since everyone has their own definition of "evil". But that is also why I asked this..

I am actually one of them who would say that Nazism isn't evil. And do not for a second believe that I am a nazi, cause that's not what this is about at all...
But, who's to say what's right and good? I'm not saying I don't have opinions about it (cause I do), and when it comes to Nazism the good/bad-question is quite easy to answer, but there are of course other things that are harder to judge.. My point is, as long as it is people who decide what's evil, and as long as some people believe it to be good, how can you for sure say it's evil? Like, some people used to believe (or still believe) that an evil person was influenced by the devil, and then they did evil things. Just like (most of the) demons in Buffyverse are evil and do things because it's evil, because they want to do the "wrong" thing. I think there is a huge difference between doing things, to do evil, and doing things, not knowing what is morally "right".

So... if I got it... not sure but... evil does exist only for believers who can find in the Bible, Koran or other erligious texts, a definition by their God of what is evil?

Where does the word come from by the way? I mean, where & when was it first used... the term I mean... not sure it's answerable but I wondered.

I'm with eponine on this one. I don't think evil exist... people aren't born evil (though a friend of mine used to argue strongly with me on this one telling that you could feel that some people were evil, or wicked, even when these person have not done anything wrong... that's how she explained her dislike for someone... never got it though, the other person is rather nice... at least it seems to me).
Whether they can become evil... don't think so either... they can be UTEERLY & VERY selfish, which can lead them to certain behavior... they can be unsensitive... they can be thoughtless... or reject the rules & laws that society imposes to them (for instance don't steal)... they can be a lot of thing that will lead them to a behavior considered as "evil" by other... but again, like epo said, no one can define really what is evil since it's a personnal conception... well, I think at least but I can't say much cause i'm a :baby2:
: pbounce: :winky:

 

[eponinethen]

Hm, I'm not really saying evil only exist for those people. Many people believe in evil, and I understand why they do, and I don't at all believe they have to be religious. But their idea of "evil" comes from somewhere. And that is what I find interesting. Because people don't have the same opinions about what evil is. And for me that says a lot about how hard/impossible it is to call something evil.

Where does the word come from by the way? I mean, where & when was it first used... the term I mean... not sure it's answerable but I wondered.

That is interesting. Probably quite impossible to answer but still... I wonder what the like "original definition" of evil was, heh...

Hm and yeah I agree with you on the rest but yeah, you were agreeing with me so.. lol..

 

[LadyLavinia]

Let me put it this way. I believe that all people are capable of light and dark deeds "“ regardless of their intent.

 

[pyromaniac]

Let me put it this way. I believe that all people are capable of light and dark deeds "“ regardless of their intent.

I totally agree.

I don't believe people can be just classified 'good' or 'evil'. It's just not that simple, the human mind is far too complex for that. People just 'are', we go through life doing as we please and trying to stay alive, I mean whether we want to except it or not we are animals and you don't class an animal as 'evil' so why a human? I think good/evil stem from religion. I'm starting to babble now lol so I'll shut up.

 

[Frenchy Faith]

A bit off topic but I found that in an article about global warming & I found it insteresting :

"When terrorists threaten is, it shows that we must count for something, that we are important enough to kill. They confirm the grand narrative of our lives, in which we strive through thickets of good and evil towards an ultimate purpose. But there is no glory in the threat of climate change. And this leads us to a further reason for turning our eyes away."

 

[polexia]

i don't know, but i don't think poeple is evil. people do cruel and crazy things, but it doesn't make them evil.. i don't consider a rapist evil, but i do consider a rapist as a sick person... if you can do that to another person, you have some probs!killers... well anyone can murder someone, it just depend on the situation.. there is alot more to this though, but i'm not gonna go further into it...

as for kamikazies(sp?) poeple who kill themselfs and take others with them, their not evil, they just do what they think is needed, they do what they feel they have to for theyr people, and their country... a war is not faught between soldiers, sure we'd like wars to be, but the truth is, they arn't! people , civilans die all the time in war, and not only at the hands of suicidebombers but also at the hands of soldiers, always have always will be... sad but true.. I don't agree with suicide bombers and their actions, but i do understand to a certaint degree... some feel that they've got their backs agianst the wall and have no other way, and like epo said.. jihad... it's a life of it's own... can't be an easy destions though, can you imaginm the dispear? to give your life for something you believe in? that's why they are, often, matyrs amongs ther own... while mosters for the people who are on the outside of their org or/and life.... i will not consider it evil...

Now, a prob i have is to look at soldiers who abuse their postion. Abuse others...torture.. i can't rap my head around it....

 

[MorbidMuch418]

I do believe real evil exists. Most of the people out there just refuse to believe it or acknowledge it. Most people I have met believe in God but not the devil. Which is kind of stupid because if there is a God then, he/she has to have a counterpart. It's a simple law of physics. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. You can't have a devine good without an equal bad.

 

[polexia]

i have been thinking some more about this question to day, and what i want to add to what i said yesterday is, i belive crime, is a social construction, and for alot of people criminal acts(all acts we have desided by law is a crime) as an EVIL act... there for i believe that EVIL is not something that exists in people, or in the acts they commit, but is something that is created by society(WHEN society defines it(sp?)).... this applyes for GOOD as well as EVIL... and if you think about it, GOD and the DEVIL are constructed in the same way..... (i prob can go deeper into this, but i'm not gonna 😉)

 

[eponinethen]

Yeah I agree with you polexia. People and society create what we see as evil. It is different in different societies, and to different people (which is also why we can at all get into discussions like this one or the death penalty one, eh). And to me, as long as evil is something different to every person, there can't be any "real" evil. I can consider someone or something to be evil.. Just like I can consider someone or something to be God, but I can not say "this is evil" or "this is God" like that is the truth. It's my truth, and possibly someone else's as well, but not The truth.
(I'm not saying that God and evil are always opposites, but to me it works sort of the same way, when it comes to this.)

 

[Asmiley]

The following is basically my opinion as I see it...

I do believe in evil. I believe there is evil in everyone. no matter how little it is; it's there. We may not see it or the person themselves may not know or believe it but It's still there. Without evil you can't have good. it's a balance of Natures thing. One can control whether they chose to focus on being good or on being evil and that's how we see people being good or being evil. But to counter that This also means that even if someone is evil then there is good in them too. But I think there is a certain amount of good and evil in everyone and dpending on the amount of goodness or evil there is can sway one's descisions.

On point though There is the fact that evil can be held in different aspects as many different things and can vary from cultural belief to religious beliefs and so on. So I agree to some extent with what eponinethen and Polexia said. Such as Criminals aren't nescesarily evil but sick minded and that Ture Evil is hard to realize due to different beleifs. What I believe is my opinion entirely, based on experience, and things I've been taught as an individual. I'm of the opinion that "everyone is entitled to thier own opinion even if I don't agree with it."