Obama: He's Bush, but blacker.

[wehappyfew]

why is he continuing the missile attacks? retard.

like someone said though...there's probably more to it than news articles.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

JCC has a point. There's no reason why he needs to support either Democrat or Republian. There are other political parties. There's Green, Libertarian, Constitution, to name a few.

 

[Cohen]

Also, independent...

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Saw a great programme on the TV this morning. About 1:30 am .
It showed the speeches made by Obama, then it showed speeches made by Bush...strange thing is Obama altered the words about, but the speech was the same.

 

[Uncle Rory]

Wow, less than a week in power and he's already getting ripped to shreds. Give the guy a break for god's sake. The rhetoric from an Obama speach is going to be similar to that of a Reagan, Bush, Kennedy or head of the local PTA speach. So what?

Those fools on the video clip are just doing what they do, comedy - and with no thought if their opinions do any damage.

I only see one reocurring issues on any web site anywhere - Race. It sickens me.

Historically the Republicans start wars. (no offense to anyone who voted Bush - actually, go read a history be and be as offended as you like - that's the truth as everyone on the planet sees it except US republicans.

How about we make a pact to give the guy a chance before we CANCEL HIM. What are we, Fox network??

Uncle Rory

 

[Skanky Vamp]

WE Whigs are coming back as the Weaves...no more worrying about a breeze.

Don't joke about the weaves.. when I had an unfortunate drunken accident with barber shears and had half my head in a drunken pattern of spot and splotches I had thought long and hard about partaking in some weave.. but I grimaced, decided I was too much of a man, and shaved the rest of it off.. since then I have learn never to touch scissors, Jello™ brand gelatin, food colouring or barber shears whilst inebriated. But weaves are a good thing.. I would welcome the Weave Party.. their slogan: Leave it to Weaver

 

[JCC]

Wow, less than a week in power and he's already getting ripped to shreds.

Well, he has already killed 22 Pakistani citizens and has covered his ears and gone "LA LA LA" about the Gaza crisis.

 

[Uncle Rory]

Well, he has already killed 22 Pakistani citizens and has covered his ears and gone "LA LA LA" about the Gaza crisis.

What an absolutely ridiculous perspective. So he inherits a war that no one wanted and because he can't stop it in the first week of office he is a mass-murderer? Interesting.

By the same set of values I can then assume that anyone who at this moment owns anything (clothing, appliances, etc.) or consumes anything that was produced in the third world is therefore guilty of Slavery because those same products, made in harsh conditions or in sweat shops would constitute "Slave Labour Conditions?"

The truth as seen by the terrorist organizations and various nations that oppose the US is that "The Citizens Who Vote For These Leaders" (G. W. Bush) for example, are the guilty parties. Again, following this logic they would be completely correct? And therefore we all deserve to be blown to smithereens?

Know what? I could go on all day but the apparent bias against the Americans is just too trendy for some people to ignore and avoid. The world has become a very boring place since 9/11 because no one looks at anything objectively anymore. It's just blah, blah, blah the Americans this, the Americans that. Meanwhile, all these First World armchair political analysts and self proclaimed Gurus of all that is righteous would never give up their SUV's, their Free Trade advantage or their right to feel superior to the rest.

And let's not forget, as bad as Bush was, how many countries supported him? Didn't the British rush right in to back him up? And who voted for those leaders? And what privelidges do the citizens of those countries enjoy because of it?

Don't we just love to hate the Americans all the while enjoying the fruits of their deeds. How bloody hypocritical.
Like a guy that beats on Gays because of his own tendencies I think anyone who gets on Obama before he even starts the job is maybe hiding a deep seated fear of Blacks.

Maybe the person that mentioned that Political debate isn't appropriate for a Buffy the Vampire Slayer forum was right cause only 1 or 2 people have bothered to state anything even remotely intelligent in the spirit of good debate. Just like Bush shoved his war down our throats, the American haters just keep trying to shove how bad they are down our throats too.

Look it up! Read a law book! A President carrying out the duties of his office cannot be legally held responsible for Mass Murder in a time of war unless Executive Orders violate the Geneva Convention.

All this and I didn't even address the foolish comment about the Gaza Conflict. What bloody Gaza Conflict? It's been going on since the end of the 2nd World War and Obama is suppossed to fix it in his first week in office? Unbelievable.

Proverb.
It's better to remain mute and have everyone think you a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Oops, upon editing this post I just noticed you are 14 yrs. old. That explains it.

Uncle Rory

 

[JCC]

What an absolutely ridiculous perspective. So he inherits a war that no one wanted and because he can't stop it in the first week of office he is a mass-murderer? Interesting.

It was not a war. It was a missile strike in Pakistani territory that was entirely unprovoked, and I doubt that it consoles the victims' families much to say "What? You're pissed because he didn't go cold turkey?" anyway.

By the same set of values I can then assume that anyone who at this moment owns anything (clothing, appliances, etc.) or consumes anything that was produced in the third world is therefore guilty of Slavery because those same products, made in harsh conditions or in sweat shops would constitute "Slave Labour Conditions?"

They're guilty of endorsing slavery. They're not guilty of slavery, that can only be done by the person who gives the authorisation for the action, such as Obama vis-a-vis Pakistan.

The truth as seen by the terrorist organizations and various nations that oppose the US is that "The Citizens Who Vote For These Leaders" (G. W. Bush) for example, are the guilty parties. Again, following this logic they would be completely correct? And therefore we all deserve to be blown to smithereens?

Pakistan is not a terrorist nation, and the targets were not a terrorist organisation, they were SUSPECTED terrorists. If another country fired missiles at the U.S. and killed a few of your friends and family on the basis of flimsy speculation, you would expect the United States to take that as a declaration of war. When it's someone you don't care about, it's a necessary risk to take, which I think is rather horrible.

Know what? I could go on all day but the apparent bias against the Americans is just too trendy for some people to ignore and avoid. The world has become a very boring place since 9/11 because no one looks at anything objectively anymore.

Yeah, the lives of civilians have just become part of the War on Terror. Bugging phone lines is protection and detention without reasonable arrest isn't an infringement of civil liberties, it's security. I wish everyone had your clarity of perspective.

It's just blah, blah, blah the Americans this, the Americans that. Meanwhile, all these First World armchair political analysts and self proclaimed Gurus of all that is righteous would never give up their SUV's, their Free Trade advantage or their right to feel superior to the rest.

Speak for yourself.

And let's not forget, as bad as Bush was, how many countries supported him? Didn't the British rush right in to back him up?

I'm not supportive of British leadership.

And who voted for those leaders?

Citizens that aren't me.

And what privelidges do the citizens of those countries enjoy because of it?

"Suffering isn't bad if the already rich Westerners are richer as a result!"

Don't we just love to hate the Americans all the while enjoying the fruits of their deeds. How bloody hypocritical.
Like a guy that beats on Gays because of his own tendencies I think anyone who gets on Obama before he even starts the job is maybe hiding a deep seated fear of Blacks.

Or of politicians that murder?

Maybe the person that mentioned that Political debate isn't appropriate for a Buffy the Vampire Slayer forum was right cause only 1 or 2 people have bothered to state anything even remotely intelligent in the spirit of good debate. Just like Bush shoved his war down our throats, the American haters just keep trying to shove how bad they are down our throats too.

I'm not shoving anything down your throat.

Look it up! Read a law book! A President carrying out the duties of his office cannot be legally held responsible for Mass Murder in a time of war unless Executive Orders violate the Geneva Convention.

Morality isn't dictated by the law.

All this and I didn't even address the foolish comment about the Gaza Conflict. What bloody Gaza Conflict? It's been going on since the end of the 2nd World War and Obama is suppossed to fix it in his first week in office? Unbelievable.

I didn't say 'fix' it. He hasn't even addressed it. For the past few weeks, Israel has made an obvious increase in its attacks on Gaza, and thousands of civilians have died. The least that you can expect from a world leader is "We're not giving you any more weapons, Israel, since you're using them to invade other countries illegally?" Though, the US has never had a problem with that, so I can see why Obama hasn't addressed it.

Proverb.
It's better to remain mute and have everyone think you a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Uncle Rory

Precisely, stop talking.

 

[Relic]

Well, the gaza situation is complex, Iran is funding strikes against Isreal that continually cause retaliation. If we did not supply Israel they would disappear... and a lot of people would die.

Israell is currently leanding strength to their ability to use force as a deturence by using it, and not just being a paper tiger. Obama not speaking up on this is actually a smart move by my estimates. let isreal show it's strength, maybe the next cease fire will last longer if hammas and hezbolah are afraid to attack again. They (Israel) knows what it takes to survive in that climate better than I or even Obama, Bush, or Clinton.

It is not like Israel/gaza is a proxy war against Iran by the US. We share the same ideals but why is Isreal fighting? They are continually attacked and wish to survive. This 'unreasonable force' stuff I hear bantered about is a bit absurd when talking about wars, cease fires just give the enemy more time to rebuild and gear up and end up costing even more lives on both sides. I think the region needs a clear victor as sad as that sounds.

As far Pakistan goes i do not know the details enough to even afford a halfway informed opinion...that said...maybe more people than I can say the same.

 

[JCC]

Well, the gaza situation is complex, Iran is funding strikes against Isreal that continually cause retaliation. If we did not supply Israel they would disappear... and a lot of people would die.

The United States, the United Kingdom and other countries are funding the slow invasion of Palestine by Israel and have been since the state's inception, which was a mistake in itself.

Israell is currently leanding strength to their ability to use force as a deturence by using it, and not just being a paper tiger.

It's hardly a deterrent when you strike first. There had been peace on the Gaza Strip for months until Israel assassinated a high-ranking Hamas official and Hamas, being the democratically-elected government of the Gaza Strip, retaliated.

Obama not speaking up on this is actually a smart move by my estimates. let isreal show it's strength, maybe the next cease fire will last longer if hammas and hezbolah are afraid to attack.

Israel should never show its strength, destroying U.S. schools, disallowing aid to a country that isn't theirs in the first place, that isn't the sign of a country defending itself, it's a large-scale massacre, with the few fireworks thrown by Hamas used as a justification, when Hamas' attacks were goaded by Israel in the first place.

It is not like Israel/gaza is a proxy war against Iran by the US. We share the same ideals but why is Isreal fighting? They are continually attacked

Palestine is continually attacked. Stop watching Fox.

and this 'unreasonable force' stuff I hear bantered about is a bit absurd when talking about wars, cease fires just give the enemy more time to rebuild and gear up and end up costing even more lives on both sides. I think the region needs a clear victor as sad as that sounds.

Hamas is a few Palestinian nationalists trying to defend their people from a terrorist state, they can't gear up, they've got nothing to gear up with.

 

[Relic]

They both are continually attacked, stop watching CNN.

Supply tunnels have been documented as have mortar strikes...in EACH instance it is not Israel that asks for the cease fire, but the one that grants it. In the majority of each cease fire instance expiring it is not due to Israel attack, but a resupplied enemy who wishes to destroy the nation state resuming hostility.... thats why the UN/Global community does not invade/ sanction/ wage war against Israel as an invading force...there is more to it than you realize; I don't have fox blinders on.... though you seem to play yourself as the victim advicate toward a chosen side.

Israel does have funded enemies and you saying otherwise will not make that fact go away. Iran funding and public proclamation that it wants to wipe israe off the map. Hezbolha is there black ops army afterall and we had that little 'war' not long ago...Iraq too was a funder of nationalist/terrorist groups when Saddam ran the show wanting more suicide bombers. People like Bin Laden exist on both sides, and their are victims on both sides.

that does not make one side bereft of equal responsibility, there is no aggressor as they both fight. There seems to be a winner each time though that is content to fight over and over again...a loser too.

So how would you fix that if you were Obama?

 

[JCC]

Hezbollah are entirely unrelated to Hamas. On the subject of a ceasefire, Hamas have said that they will happily accept a ceasefire, so long as Israel stops being an aggressor and gives back the land that it took from Palestine in 1967, which are both pretty reasonable terms.

 

[Relic]

I realize that hamas and hezbolah are not the same group, else why not call them the same name. it's simply not true that they are entirely unrealted though, there I think your ill informed.

Aside from them sharing common goals, nation state head quarters for some of the elite, and well...I'll save the big relation...they both have coordinated attacks against Israel at stagered times to keep them on the ropes- so to speak, and on occasion even strikes at the same time from different directions to try and two front Israel war efforts.

The true relation though, is that hamas, like hezbolah, is funded in part at least in part by Iran, which expects certain things for its petro dollar. (they also have a HQ in Syria like hezbolah for their big thinkers)

here is a fun link about the noble hamas:http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas-funds.htm

This is the point where you (or most people I debate this with) call it propaganda, we call each other blind and we walk away at an understanding impass.

At the very least no one is hating on anyone yet. I'm proud to say no one is even yelling at or insulting me. Thats why I love this board.

I still ask you if you believe that Obama has done nothing to stop the bloodshed over there, what is the something you as a US president would do? if it is stop trading with them and providing them weaponry, there would be no deturence for israel enemies. in effect you've just gauranteed a one sided war in the opposite direction.

I'd wager Israel would not be offered a single cease fire if they (israel) were loosing, despite the fact they have granted more than a few to their weekend enemy in the past. It would end the conflict all right, but not in the way either of us really want.

 

[Faith]

At the very least no one is hating on anyone yet. I'm proud to say no one is even yelling at or insulting me. Thats why I love this board.

On that note, lets just keep it that way please. Understandably this is a heated issue and people are not always going to agree. Constructive arguments are one thing but we will not tolerate any personal flaming on the boards.

 

[Relic]

So far so good, right?

 

[Uncle Rory]

To just reiterate a point. 9/11 happened. Bush used it to curtail freedoms and stop free speach. The righteous Democratic and liberal minded people felt their rights were being denied and came out swinging. And how did they combat this injustice? By doing the exact same thing. By curtailing free speach themselves. And internationally the same thing is happening. Anyone who remotely supports the Americans is considered NUTS. I must be nuts because I have travelled extensively in the States and LOVE the American People, (not their leaders or their policies) and would take 1000 Obamas over 1 Osama any day. (Could do without Bush though).
To see these issues one dimensionally and just go - USA wrong, wrong wrong is so stupid. I appreciate the values of the above posters who ask the question - What would you do? Obviously, a complex question that will never be settled here. But blanket statements of blame HELP NO ONE. (except for the guy making them of course - feeling superior always feels so good)

Uncle Rory

 

[JCC]

To just reiterate a point. 9/11 happened. Bush used it to curtail freedoms and stop free speach. The righteous Democratic and liberal minded people felt their rights were being denied and came out swinging. And how did they combat this injustice? By doing the exact same thing. By curtailing free speach themselves. And internationally the same thing is happening. Anyone who remotely supports the Americans is considered NUTS. I must be nuts because I have travelled extensively in the States and LOVE the American People, (not their leaders or their policies) and would take 1000 Obamas over 1 Osama any day. (Could do without Bush though).
To see these issues one dimensionally and just go - USA wrong, wrong wrong is so stupid. I appreciate the values of the above posters who ask the question - What would you do? Obviously, a complex question that will never be settled here. But blanket statements of blame HELP NO ONE. (except for the guy making them of course - feeling superior always feels so good)

Uncle Rory

I have absolutely no problem with the American people. I think that authority is inherently malicious, and that the US administration goes above and beyond the call of duty in doing malicious things.

 

[Technopagan]

I have a feeling. It doesn't mattterrrrrrr. What can't we face if we're together.

U-S-A ALL THE WAY

 

[ckg927]

They both are continually attacked, stop watching CNN.

Supply tunnels have been documented as have mortar strikes...in EACH instance it is not Israel that asks for the cease fire, but the one that grants it. In the majority of each cease fire instance expiring it is not due to Israel attack, but a resupplied enemy who wishes to destroy the nation state resuming hostility.... thats why the UN/Global community does not invade/ sanction/ wage war against Israel as an invading force...there is more to it than you realize; I don't have fox blinders on.... though you seem to play yourself as the victim advicate toward a chosen side.

Israel does have funded enemies and you saying otherwise will not make that fact go away. Iran funding and public proclamation that it wants to wipe israe off the map. Hezbolha is there black ops army afterall and we had that little 'war' not long ago...Iraq too was a funder of nationalist/terrorist groups when Saddam ran the show wanting more suicide bombers. People like Bin Laden exist on both sides, and their are victims on both sides.

that does not make one side bereft of equal responsibility, there is no aggressor as they both fight. There seems to be a winner each time though that is content to fight over and over again...a loser too.

So how would you fix that if you were Obama?

Simple.

Stop funding Israel. They're not a third world country, folks. They're big boys, and can take care of themselves. By funding Israel, the U.S. has some blood on its hands in re the whole mess in Gaza.

Let me ask you this: Does a third-world country have NUKES? Probably not.