Off the vegetarian thread---Globalization, trade practices, and the Caribbean

[randiann]

Well I don't know what to tell you. I don't know much about the banana industry in Jamaica either, but the governments politics are there because the majority of the people support it.

Okay, this resulted out of the vegetarian/vegan thread because I really don't want to start another debate about that. It was asked that we don't debate in there, and so I won't. But this brought up an interesting point to me; how many of us know (or care) about where our food comes from? How many of us pay attention to the trade practices our more developed contries embark on with less developed countries? How many of us are aware that major food producers, like Dole, prey on less developed countries, push small agricultural farmers in those countries out of the market, and buy up all their land? Sure, "save the rainforest" and "respect all life" and "don't kill animals" all sound like nice ideas, but do you really pay attention to where that produce is coming from, and who it's hurting to get onto your table? Because unless you are buying local, and doing tons of research onto the companies you are buying from before you purchase your food, you are contributing to the decimation of other countries by supporting these major food corporations.

In case anyone wants to know, this is what our developed countries and our government is doing to other countries. And it's not just the US.

Caribbean Banana and Sugar industries and globalization

Globalization and Jamaica

or watch this:
Life and Debt

Other links

Globalization has affected our food supply in so many ways. And it's not always positive. Many developing countries all over the world are affected negatively because of the practices our governments and entities such as the IMF and the World Bank have enacted. We are effectively bankrupting other countries. To say that I don't care about what goes on in other countries because I don't like their governments, and the people who live there are the ones supporting those governments is an extremely callous and judgemental statement. Not every country is a democracy. Furthermore, not every democracy is actually representative of the people who live under it. To assume so is naive at best. People all across the world are being exploited by foreign governments and these gigantic corporations. Think about this next time you bite into that yummy banana or eat a nice sugary dessart.

 

[Justme]

Excellent post. Of course it's not just food but clothes and electrical goods and toys... and well more or less everything.

When I was at college I refused to sign a petition against "dancing bears". Yes the practice terrible but the country where it was happening (I actually can't remember now where it was) was a fairly crappy place to live. I abhorred the fact that these bunch of students were condemning these people for this practice without a second thought to how exactly they were going to make a living without it.

Anyway, yes globalisation has a lot to answer for. Buying ethically for me (as somebody on a moderate income with two children) is a nightmare. I try my best but it's not good enough.

It's actually one of the reasons I have so much respect for vegans. They stick by what they think is right, despite the difficulty it must cause them.

 

[Username]

That quote that you picked it out which is mine, has nothing to with how or what we buy effect other countries, when I wrote that statement I was only reffering to how homosexualls are being treated in Jamaica.

 

[Mumrik]

I know I'm something of a "special case" in that I know where most of my food and its ingredients come from. As in, I know the cows that I usually get my milk from by name and how they are treated. I grew up in the country, I still live in the country. I get my potatoes and eggs from my great-uncle, who owns a farm. I know these chickens have fantastic living conditions. My father is a butcher (and, more recently, a hunter, though he's also been that for eight years), so I know for a fact how it is produced, where the meat I eat comes from, what the animals get to eat, I always have, and I'm aware that most people don't and that I'm lucky in that regard.

I'm very concious of that, especially when staying somewhere else, who may not be. I try to tell them why it's better to buy bio/eco products but if they don't want to/can't because it's too expensive, it's not like I refuse to eat something that isn't. I just notice the difference, because, to me, bio really tastes better. And, in the case of eggs, I was shocked when I first saw my non-bio egg yolk, which was a very pale yellow instead of the deep orange I'm used to.

I'm the same with products that can't be grown here, if I have the money, which sadly isn't always the case.

 

[zobothehobo]

I do not pay attention to where my food comes from. I used to... but when the farmer's market got too expensive and we had to buy stuff at the grocery store, it got way too depressing. I'd like to say I'm different. I pay attention... but I don't. I do care about it though. I'd love to be able to support my local farmers again (and not support stuff like this), but they can't lower their prices or they'd loose their farms and I can't pay more (especially now that dad's lost his job) or we'll loose the house.

 

[randiann]

That quote that you picked it out which is mine, has nothing to with how or what we buy effect other countries, when I wrote that statement I was only reffering to how homosexualls are being treated in Jamaica.

I believe the context it was being used in is that people from Jamaica don't concern you because their government condones homosexuality according to you. To be honest, I have no idea about how Jamaica's government treats homosexuals, so I'll have to take your word on it. The quote was picked because several people stated they were unaware of what is happening in Jamaica and across the world due to globalization, and because you stated that the people support a governmental policy you don't agree with, and therefore you don't care about them. It was not a personal attack by any means, but rather picked for two reasons:

1: You stated that you did not know about the issue that I had first brought up.

2: You made a comment that the people supported a certain governmental policy, which is not always the case.

I hope this clarifies.


And Justme and Zobo, I'm right there with you. It's not only difficult to know what you are buying in the first place, it's darn near impossible. Especially on a fixed income. I'll be the first to admit that I should be more concientious (SP? I can't spell for beans today) about what I am buying. But at the moment, I can't afford to. I can either buy really cheap and have enough food for my family or buy local and organic items (which are not cheap) and not have enough food. It's a problem. But there are a few things we can do:

Join a cause. Whether it is to raise more awareness or send aid to other places, volunteerism and activism is a great thing to be involved in

Start a veggie garden. You can grow herbs in a window box or a full grown garden in the backyard. Remember though, the bigger the garden, the more the maintenance. Things like tomatoes, zuchinni, squash, peppers, beans, cucumbers, pumpkins, and melons are all fairly easy to grow. Remember that some (like pumpkins, cucumbers, and melons) take up a LOT more room than others.

Buy local. I'm lucky enough to live in a place where you can drive just a few minutes out of the city and see fruit and veggie stands on the side of the road or out of the back of their pickups. There's also farmer's markets too. Know your local companies, and support your local economy.

 

[Username]

I believe the context it was being used in is that people from Jamaica don't concern you because their government condones homosexuality according to you. To be honest, I have no idea about how Jamaica's government treats homosexuals, so I'll have to take your word on it. The quote was picked because several people stated they were unaware of what is happening in Jamaica and across the world due to globalization, and because you stated that the people support a governmental policy you don't agree with, and therefore you don't care about them. It was not a personal attack by any means, but rather picked for two reasons:

1: You stated that you did not know about the issue that I had first brought up.

2: You made a comment that the people supported a certain governmental policy, which is not always the case.

I hope this clarifies.

It doesn't, why did have to use my quote at all? you couldn't of started this thread without it? Since according to you, you knew in what context my quote was and what I meant, it shouldn't of been brought up because what I wrote has nothing to do with what this thread is about!

And to use that quote, and then add this in your post ["To say that I don't care about what goes on in other countries because I don't like their governments, and the people who live there are the ones supporting those governments is an extremely callous and judgemental statement."
How is that not a personal attack?

 

[randiann]

What you had posted was the following:

Also Jamaica? a country, a people who imprison men for having gay sex, I personally couldn't care less about them"¦"¦My argument is actually not that all living things are equal, I just think eating animals is wrong"¦"¦.Well I don't know what to tell you. I don't know much about the banana industry in Jamaica either, but the governments politics are there because the majority of the people support it.
And look I don't value anyones life over another, animal or people but when people make inhuman decisions I have hard time feeling sympathy for them.

This came off as very callous and judgemental. I could have just as easily used Zobo's comment

I'll be honest, I know pretty much nothing about Jamaica's banana industry so I have no idea in what way the US has decimated them with trade,

as well, but yours had another issue which I wanted to address, which was that people support all of their government's policies, which is not always the case. Notice I didn't use your name, I didn't call you any names, or attack you in any way. What you had posted was not solely about how the Jamaican government condones homosexuality, but that you didn't know much about the Jamaican banana industry, which is exactly what this thread is about. Justme also stated that

I wish there were another thread about this. I have more to say.

ergo I opened another thread in which we could speak about these topics. Again, I hope this clarifies. I was in no way attacking you, or calling you out, just making a comment on a specific quote and I didn't want to debate anymore in the veg thread since I have a hard time not criticizing certain aspects that tend to go along with that lifestyle and have nothing to actually do with dietary restrictions, but rather with people being pushy with others when it comes to their beliefs.


Oh, and for the record, I didn't compare Veganism to Christianity as lifestyle choices in the other thread, since that would be offensive. I stated that vegetarians/vegans often get a bad rap, much like Christians, because the actions of a few people who associate themselves with those groups make reflections on the whole. It's how stereotypes start and are propogated. And I am very anti-stereotyping.

 

[zobothehobo]

So I know this thread is specifically about globalization and trade practices, but I feel the need to rant about vegetarianism (notice, every time I rant it's not about vegetarians, it's vegetarianism.) Does anyone mind if I do that here?

 

[FetalPig]

i'd say a new thread for that would be less confusing

 

[Username]

What you had posted was the following:

This came off as very callous and judgemental. I could have just as easily used Zobo's comment as well, but yours had another issue which I wanted to address, which was that people support all of their government's policies, which is not always the case. Notice I didn't use your name, I didn't call you any names, or attack you in any way. What you had posted was not solely about how the Jamaican government condones homosexuality, but that you didn't know much about the Jamaican banana industry, which is exactly what this thread is about. Justme also stated that ergo I opened another thread in which we could speak about these topics. Again, I hope this clarifies. I was in no way attacking you, or calling you out, just making a comment on a specific quote and I didn't want to debate anymore in the veg thread since I have a hard time not criticizing certain aspects that tend to go along with that lifestyle and have nothing to actually do with dietary restrictions, but rather with people being pushy with others when it comes to their beliefs.


Oh, and for the record, I didn't compare Veganism to Christianity as lifestyle choices in the other thread, since that would be offensive. I stated that vegetarians/vegans often get a bad rap, much like Christians, because the actions of a few people who associate themselves with those groups make reflections on the whole. It's how stereotypes start and are propogated. And I am very anti-stereotyping.

What i posted has no relevance in this thread. All I wrote concerning the banana industry in Jamaica was that I didn't know anything about it, if you wanted to use that then fine, but there was no reason to bring up the fact that I care less about the people who live in Jamaica because of how they treat gays, because that is not what this thread that you started is about. It's about knowing the produce you buy doesn't harm people in other countries right, or how much that is important to you right?

 

[zobothehobo]

randiann agrees: I don't mind if you do, but just be warned that subject opens up a whole other can of worms on this board.

I created a new thread. I know it opens a whole other can of worms but quite frankly, the stuff I said needs to be said. And NO ONE ever says it and when they do, people call them an ass. It's like Zoey on HIMYM. She's all hell bent on saving this old building that's falling apart and quite frankly looks like crap and she's taking everything Ted says out of context and making him look like an awful person for tearing it down and building a new building. I wouldn't be surprised to find out Zoey's a vegetarian too.

 

[Spikefan31]

I know where my mini tomatoes come from (a tomato plant in a pot on my back veranda) 😀 But other than that, I'm kinda ashamed to say I don't know where my food comes from. My English teacher told us we should all go to an abattoir to know where out meats comes from, and he told us he reckons about 50% of us would turn vegetarian overnight.

 

[zobothehobo]

Justme agrees: Where is this thread? I can't find it =(

It was merged with the initial thread.