Official Discussion of 7.22 "Chosen" (UPN-US) #2

I'm mad at Joss for ending this amazing season finale like this. So many plot holes!

irst off, I hate Buffy jumping from man to man. One act, she kisses Angel. The next, she sleeps with Spike. Angel is very, very out of character and him coming over at this time makes no sense at all. I also hate whiny Spike

The First is not a threat, imo. It cannot touch, just taunt. And man, all it does is taunt in that basement scene. I realized that The First is such a sucky villain. The First's plans were never explained and The First can't die, so how is destroying Sunnydale gonna help? It's still there, ready to strike.

Next plot hole: Ubervamps. I cannot get passed it. She almost DIES fighting one, but now she's slicing them up, ten at a time. And not only Buffy, but the Potentials. I understand that they become slayers, but newly born slayers. Meaning Buffy pre-Season 1 killing a bunch of Ubervamps. What?! No, way wrong.

Next plot hole: The hellmouth. Shown in previous episodes, Ubervamps are not the only thing in the hellmouth. In Prophecy Girl, you see the worm thing. In The Zeppo, no Ubervamp is shown. There is more than just Ubervamps. Way more.

Next plot hole: Buffy gets stabbed. She falls down. One minute later, she's jumping off a building and landing on a bus. After she gets up in The First's non-existent face, she shows no sign of ever being stabbed. And, if I remember correctly, the wound is all gone.

More plot holes. Too many to mention.

Anya's death is not mentioned, only for 15 seconds when Andrew tells Xander. While it is a nice moment, that good and important of a character deserved a much better send off.

There's more, but I won't mention it now. I was really disappointed, and I'm disappointed by the Heroes finale right now, so I thought I'd post a depressing review :lmao:
 
benboy606 said:
I'm mad at Joss for ending this amazing season finale like this. So many plot holes!

irst off, I hate Buffy jumping from man to man. One act, she kisses Angel. The next, she sleeps with Spike. Angel is very, very out of character and him coming over at this time makes no sense at all. I also hate whiny Spike

The First is not a threat, imo. It cannot touch, just taunt. And man, all it does is taunt in that basement scene. I realized that The First is such a sucky villain. The First's plans were never explained and The First can't die, so how is destroying Sunnydale gonna help? It's still there, ready to strike.

Next plot hole: Ubervamps. I cannot get passed it. She almost DIES fighting one, but now she's slicing them up, ten at a time. And not only Buffy, but the Potentials. I understand that they become slayers, but newly born slayers. Meaning Buffy pre-Season 1 killing a bunch of Ubervamps. What?! No, way wrong.

Next plot hole: The hellmouth. Shown in previous episodes, Ubervamps are not the only thing in the hellmouth. In Prophecy Girl, you see the worm thing. In The Zeppo, no Ubervamp is shown. There is more than just Ubervamps. Way more.

Next plot hole: Buffy gets stabbed. She falls down. One minute later, she's jumping off a building and landing on a bus. After she gets up in The First's non-existent face, she shows no sign of ever being stabbed. And, if I remember correctly, the wound is all gone.

More plot holes. Too many to mention.

Anya's death is not mentioned, only for 15 seconds when Andrew tells Xander. While it is a nice moment, that good and important of a character deserved a much better send off.

There's more, but I won't mention it now. I was really disappointed, and I'm disappointed by the Heroes finale right now, so I thought I'd post a depressing review :lmao:
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Not to mention Ubervamps all around Anya/Andrew then they cut back and she gets killed by a watcha call it blind guy thing ... :/
 
It's sad really 🙁 we new him for a couple episodes and anya for a couple seasons !! Arg lol they torment us!!

Edit:

Oh, i just have to add, I love spike hitting the picture he drew of Angel lolololol on the punching bag!
 
Just re-watched it. It definitely has it's problems - but Chosen is such an improvement on the majority of the season. Plenty of little moments to love - Spike's picture of Angel, Andrew telling Xander about Anya, and that great scene between the Core Four in the corridor. Naturally, I don't enjoy the deaths of Anya or Amanda (the sole Potential I got hugely fond of on this re-watch), but isn't it really just a given by now Whedon kills off likeable characters?

Maybe not the best end we could have got, but I still consider it a great one nonetheless. 🙂
 
I never thought about the whole "other demons in the hellmouth" thing. See, i forgot about it, which i guess is what the writers were hoping for!
 
benboy606 said:
Next plot hole: Buffy gets stabbed. She falls down. One minute later, she's jumping off a building and landing on a bus. After she gets up in The First's non-existent face, she shows no sign of ever being stabbed. And, if I remember correctly, the wound is all gone.
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You don't. When she jumps down from the bus, the blood on her clothes is still clearly visible.
 
The stab wound was one of the problems that bugged me. I had a few nitpicks about the finale as well. But for now, I'll stick with the stab. With a stomach wound like that, especially having been, not only stabbed, but run through, Buffy would not have survived. I know Slayers have a certain "healing ability" and tougher bodies, but it makes no logical sense that she is in so much pain and then struggles to her feet to fight like no other. I was expecting her to collapse after the UberVamps were being defeated and that someone might have carried her out (even wondering during the episode if she would die at the end!) but certainly not expecting her to seem like she made a full recovery. Same with Faith. She was literally overrun with UberVamps and I was expecting her to meet her death (which honestly would have been sad!!) but she pops up like Buffy.

So after saying that...I might as well post what I wrote to a friend who I met through Buffy. *WARNING* Spoilers ahead!!

First of all...too rushed.

Second of all...too incomplete.

Third of all...only Anya died? No mean to be disrespectful to her memory...but seriously...I thought so many more died!

I thought this would be the death toll before I watched:

Buffy
Giles
Anya
Spike
Willow
Faith
A few of the Potentials

Then during the finale who I thought would die:
Buffy
Faith
Robin Wood
Kennedy
Anya

What we lost:
Anya
Spike
Like 2 Potentials

Best part: Buffy saying goodbye to Spike (*sniff* That part kinda got to me. "I love you." "No you don't. But thanks for saying it.")

Funniest part: Willow collapsing to the floor after making everyone Slayers, chuckles then says, "That was nifty."

Funniest part II: When Buffy walked in the door and Dawn was standing there after Xander tried to follow Buffy's order of taking her to safety. Dawn kicks Buffy lightly in the shin.
Buffy: "Ow!"
Dawn: "Dumb-ass!"
Buffy: "If you get killed, I'm telling!"

Funniest part III: "So, what do you guys want to do tomorrow??" pre-apocolypse talk!

Dumbest part: Making everyone or every girl Slayer...WTF. I mean, more power to women...but everyone? Kinda defeats the purpose of Buffy! I don't know. I didn't really like that idea. Looking back now it was a good plot story, but not my cup of tea.

Oddest part: Buffy being run through and still getting up like it was nothing, same with Robin...Faith being run under by all those UberVamps and again, fighting her way out (though she's badass I have to say!)

Favorite character of the finale: Toss-up: Faith and Willow. Never thought I'd EVER like Faith. But she won me over when she came back. What can I say? Fickle! 🙂 I think the reason was that she fought by Buffy's side and actually showed compassion and even love for Buffy during the battle and after. And Willow...you can't beat the humor there or the fantastic acting of Alyson Hannigan.

Least favorite: Anya and Andrew. Anya really bugged me once she was left at the altar. Just didn't develop well after that. Andrew REALLY bugged me until he was asking Xandar, "Why didn't I die?" And then realized that Anya had died saving him. GOD he bugged me. But that ending bit was good characterization.

Wish I could have seen more of: Dawn and Willow. Dawn was so huge in the 5th season then kinda dropped off. Sad. Potential future Watcher, though which really is cool. She found her nitch in that aspect.

What I wish could have happened: A Buffy/Dawn goodbye, at LEAST a hug somewhere in that episode. We didn't get ANYTHING. That sucks because after the episode "Forever" in season 5 (the episode following Joyce's death) it is made very clear how much those sisters need and love each other. We didn't see that in the entire 7th season. Even though Dawn said, "Everything you might say will be a goodbye", I think Buffy really should have hugged her or said "I love you" or something instead of just letting her walk away cause that really is what Buffy would do...defy her sister's request just to "bug her". You know, typical sister stuff!!

Disappointed with: ANGEL!!! NO screentime. I am a Buffy/Angel fan, so excuse my bias here! And here I was under the impression that he'd have a lot of screentime!! Thank goodness for three things: (1) the Angel/Buffy kiss (2) Angel saving Buffy's life (3) Angel saying he "ain't getting any older"...(IMO) pretty much telling Buffy he'd wait for her. Thank GOD. But bad screentime, bad writing on that part

Impressed with: Kennedy, Faith. I know some don't like Kennedy, but she did impress me with her confidence in The Last Batte. As I said before, Faith came through for me and that REALLY made me happy. She's so no-sh*t about everything but this episode really showed me that she had indeed reformed.

Bugged me: That damn preacher Caleb. Kept coming back. Granted, he did some pretty heavy ass-kicking, but he annoyed me. Must ahve been the accent... 🙂

AND THE ENDING! What the crap is up with that ending??? Yes VERY open-ended (makes for a LOT of fan fiction ideas that's for sure!!!) but still. I like to have a little closure. It was like, ok, so Sunnydale is off the map, literally. But now what? I was really honestly expecting Buffy to collapse from her stab wound, say something insightful to Faith or Dawn or whatever and kinda die....but that was me trying to spice up the otherwise bland last 3 minutes. 🙂 But then again, Buffy's expression after Dawn's inquiry was a fantastic way to finish. Thank goodness for the closing shot being SMG!

Season 7 finale: "Chosen" Good title, first of all...Just really kinda melodramatic. Good action and such, but poor writing and I think the writers/Joss W. were afraid to have anything sad happen to anchor the finale. Sure Spike's sacrafice was sad. But it would have been more sad and better (in my opinion) to have a lead die. Granted I am one who does that in her stories...but if Buffy/Willow/Xandar/Giles/even Dawn had died, then it would have been sad enough to be memorable. Like the Alias series finale...whcih I won't mention in case you watch it!! If ou won't, let me know and I'll tell you!! 🙂

As Peter Pan would say: GIRLS TALK TO MUCH! I'm sorry for my endless blabbing! I couldn't stop! I just love talking about Buffy!
 
i've had a million discussions with myself and the tv after watching the finale so i'll keep it brief.

yeah it was great, i could never say anything but. however, i was disappointed. the whole season seemed to move slowly but still remained interesting, till the end when it seemed rushed. i thought the relationship between buffy and dawn wasn't thought out, surely buffy realised their was a strong chance of either her or dawn not making it so whatever dawn said, she would've pinned her down and hugged her and told her how much she loved her. or maybe thats me.

also, the deaths or lack thereof. i thought buffy was going to die especially after being stabbed like that. seriously, how did she get back up and fight her ass off?! i then at least thought we'd lose xander, willow or giles since they have been with us since day one. but no, anya and spike. and anya's just seemed to be put to one side. somewhat disappointing. at the time it was aired my then boyfriend said it was like they wanted to keep all the 'good' characters in case they made more episodes.

i also thought they'd make more use of angel. it was kind of expected he'd come back but it was soooo disapointing and totally pointless! i feel like they tried to make him sarcastic and funny but it didn't work in my book... either bring him back to fight or get lost!

i loved the ending with spike and buffy (cos i want to believe buffy did love him) and it made me cry like a baby!!

i hated how dawn had the last line... i never liked her character at all so maybe thats one reason but i think one of the scoobies should have ended it.

lastly, it didn't feel final. i know sunnydale was all but destroyed but it seemed too 'easy'. as far as i'm concerned the first evil being the biggest big bad should have taken a lot more... going back to deaths, i think more people should've died and the final battle should've been longer and more intense...

BUT i did enjoy it :lmao:
 
GrimsWatcher said:
I don't now if anyone has mentioned this (or if I already did at some point), but I really liked the way Caleb died. First Buffy slashed from left to right on his chest, then she went vertical on him and sliced him top to bottom. It was the shape of a cross......
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I never really noticed that. Nice!
 
Chosen

Ok, I just finished watching chosen, and I gotta say I really think it is one of the best television show finals I have ever seen. Pretty much every show final leaves me really pissed off and with so many questions and greivences. This one did that but left me more satisfied than most. My only wish is that it was longer, like a 2 hour thing, and more time spent on other characters, it really did become the Buffy/Spike/Willow show, which doesn't bother me that much since I love them!.
If this is already a current thread please let me know, I looked through a bit and didn't see one but I did not look through em all, way to time consuming. What I mostly wanna know is, that bit where Buffy comes down to the basement and her and Spike just stand there and it fades to black....what do you think happened there?. Joss said on the commentary that its open to inturpretation but my first thought was that they slept together, what do you think?
 
nerd4hire
nerd4hire
Checked everywhere, but in plain sight, right? I know that one. The Chosen thread is staked at the top of the forum. ;)
When I first watched this ep, I remember being really satisfied too, though very, very, very sad about Anya's death. I think it's the brilliance of the idea of empowering all the Potentials that made me go totally like "wow, that's just the perfect idea.". Besides, what's not to love about Buffy's empowering speech ? The "So make your choice... Are you ready to be strong ?" part stayed with me for so long...

Indeed, a two-parter would have been way better. Some explanation about Joyce's prophecy, even a few words to say "well that was just the First"... And more Xander, more Dawn, more Giles, more Faith, more FourCore. =)
 
The thing I didn't like about this ending, is the part where all the potentials become slayers. It's like... Buffy is not unique anymore, the concept is gone. So I thought that sucked. I understand the brilliant side of it, but still...
 
Agree that it is a very satisfying ending, even though it isn't really the end.
I always get this nice feeling when watching it, which I like. 🙂

Regardning Buffy and Spike in the basement I have actually never made up my mind what I think happened...

/SK
 
I did love the fact that, at the end, there was at least the faint hope that Buffy would be able to at last be able to rest from the battle for at least a little while, to let Faith and all of the other girls take over, but that little "You ain't seen ANYTHING yet" smile at the end shattered all hope of that for me. Buffy will always be a leader, never just a commander. The other girls can cover her back for the simple reason that she will always be the first one to enter the fight and the last one to leave it.

As for the episode itself, I believe that at least that and possibly the one before it should have been two hours long. There were seven years of fighting, dying, crying, laughing and loving to bring together into what we at that time believed would have been a suitable end for the show. Two extra hours would have gone a long way toward achieving that.
 
Ok, ok I saw the chosen thread right at the top but looked at some of the posts and saw that it didn't really invlove what I was talking about, yes it was about chosen but not my specific question about buffy and spike, granted I only skimmed, promise to pay more attention from now on, remember Im learning!.
 
ItMustBeBunnies said:
Ok, ok I saw the chosen thread right at the top but looked at some of the posts and saw that it didn't really invlove what I was talking about, yes it was about chosen but not my specific question about buffy and spike, granted I only skimmed, promise to pay more attention from now on, remember Im learning!.
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I'll give you a tip that might help. If you want to talk about a specific aspect of an episode, title your thread in a way which reflects that.

If you just title it the name of the episode, the thread will be merged with the existing episode thread, because the conversation tends to want to wander towards the subject suggested in the title.
 
I was angry watching the last episode beacuse everything seems somehow unsolved...for example that talk that buffy and angel had- they end up together, right??? 🙂🙂
 
The point is you're not supposed to know. There is of course the constant question of Angel or Spike and I think they didn't want us to know either way and fit both ships into the episode to make everyone happy, but not completely satisfied.
 
dolores said:
I was angry watching the last episode beacuse everything seems somehow unsolved...for example that talk that buffy and angel had- they end up together, right??? 🙂🙂
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Not yet.

Angel S5 = 1 year after Chosen - They're barely speaking.

Angel AtF = 2 years after Chosen - Buffy isn't mentioned.

Buffy S8 = 3+ years after Chosen - Buffy's dreamed about Angel twice, but has yet to speak with him.
 
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