Official Discussion of "Conversations W/Dead People"

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Ripperfan

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Here it is folks, the place to be after tonight's outstanding episode! (Like any of us are really watching "Haunted" anyway🙂)

As many of you know I'm a continuity freak...and even though as I start this thread, the episode is still hours away, I also noticed in the preview that Joyce's entire ensemble (blouse, hair, etc.) is an exact match to what it was in "The Body"--OK, the hair may be off a bit, but kudos to the production team for paying attention to the little things...

i'll be back to chat w/ you all at 9pm CDT, right after "Smallville", so that we can dissect this thing together...😀
 
well, the wildfeed summary was interesting.

sounds like a strange episode, mostly because only three of the regular cast members have lines in the episode.. but it does sound good. looking foward to it.
 
it was a strange ep but it seemed to set up once again the theme "from beneath you it devours". I think this season or maybe even series conclusion will be kickass...
 
My question is, was Spike really killing??? Because when he was beating up the high school punks in the library that one episode, he was flinching when he was hitting. So was that really Spike tonight?? Or another ghost or something? Or did I miss something important in a past episode that has to do with Spike's chip?

Interesting how the "evil" is setting everything up for people to not trust each other, or themselves.

Also, anyone catch who played the vamp that Buffy chatted with the whole ep?

And does ANYONE know who the band was in this ep??? It's driving me batty!
 
Ya that was by far one of the best this season ( but i kinda say that about thm all). ya i was wondering the same question SavageAngel asked. Is he really killing and siring? 😕
 
This was a really good ep, in my opinion anyways. It was kind of strange though... It didn't tie up very much, only left some more loose ends. Ok, so now we know Buffy won't choose Dawn? What was that about😕 And Spike has a soul! They aren't doing much with his soul! Why would he be killing if he's so tortured. What's the deal? And when Jonathan's blood poured all over that symbol in the school basement... that cannot be good at all. Oh man, oh man. They really left us hanging here! I can't wait for next week. 😀
 
Oh man, that last bit where Cassie starts talking evil.. that was GOLD. I got so giddy

Joyce might not have actually been Joyce.. and yeah what's with the Spike thing? And the Troika...

This is going to be such an awesome season.

Cass said something like "This last year is going to seem like cake after what I put you and your friends through. I'm not a fan of easy deaths. Oh believe me, I'm going for a Big finish."

"From beneath you it devours..."

"Oh no, not it. Me."

Which means it should actually mean "From beneath you *I* devour" or something along those lines. Plus it also implies that this evil has been with the scoobs all along. The only explanation? It's the Hellmouth itself speaking. DDDAAAAY-UM!

*all giddy*

-mmmdonuts
 
This was a great show on Willows and Dawns behalf....willow is such a good actress....i was gettin all teary eyed when she though it was Tara...but it was Cassie...BUT was it?? and how Willow said " from beneath you it devours"...and then "Cassie" said No not it....me...and went all scary lookin and disappeared...very freaky! So was it the shapeshifter....can anybody tell me where the whole thing about he shapeshifter came about??? i dont remember it.
I wonder what was that thing that was with Dawn in her house on Joyce...and it was strange how her mom said that buffy wont choose her...but someone else in the end.
AND what was with Spike tonight?? How was he all of a sudden able to bite again?? This is gettin good! but now joss seems to be going from comedy episode(last week) to serious(this week) and then comedy which looks like next week...but its still all good!
Also can anyone remember what the vampire dude with buffy said about being alone....something like "your always alone.....till you die..." i cant rememeber it all...if anyone can help thanx!!
 
OMG!!!!!!!!!! That was like the BEST episode yet.........I didnt read nay spoilers for it and Im trying not to read the ones for next week but Im DYING over here!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im kinda upset that Anya and Xander were left out....but as for the REST of the ep....a DEFINITE 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:: tu ::
 
My guess on Joyce saying Buffy wouldn't choose Dawn. Smae thing that happened with Willow and Cassie. I think the same evil spirit/power/demon/thing was at work on all of them. It could have been Joyce honestly warning Dawn, or it could have been the evil trying to give Dawn more doubt when she is really just starting to trust in Buffy. Gave Willow doubts by telling her she was going to kill everyone and that the only way to stop it is to kill herself. And could the evil/feeding/siring Spike be the shapeshifter at work? Could it have been that who sire the vamp Buffy was chatting with, and not the real Spike?
 
I liked the feel of the episode...very spooky. Especially when you'd get brief glimpses of Joyce on the couch, than with the demon on top of her. However, I was also very confused and felt this episode was just setting us up for the rest of the season. What is the big evil?? Obviously something that can take many forms..at the same time. Cassie, Warren...and I believe Spike incarnations...not sure about Joyce. Perhaps it truly was Joyce and she was warning Dawn about the way the big bad seems to incarnate and confuse people...perhaps Buffy and the rest of the gang will come to distrust each other, therefore not choosing to be together. Loved the psycho-analyst/vampire...I also think he provided another clue...you are alone until you die. Hmmmmmm.
 
A very spooky, ominous episode this week... I LOVED IT. Especially the parts with Dawn, that was brilliantly done. Very creepy.

There was something Cassie said (which i can't remember anymore) that gave me a very stong impression as to who this "first evil" is...

*drum roll*

Satan, himself.
 
I agree with you, SavageAngel, for the most part...My take on things is that it's the hellmouth itself taking form somehow. Using people that they all cared about was a stroke of genius. Whatever is coming, Willow is one of the few people with the power to possibly stop or delay it, hence the "you must never use magic again" speech. I don't believe that was really Joyce either. The presence was violent from the very beginning, even before Dawn's face went all hack-n-slash. Joyce would have done every thing in her power to protect her daughter, even from beyond the grave. And Joyce knows Buffy would have done anything to protect Dawn, hence the very lengthy conversation with the vamp, while her cell phone just happens to be lying on the ground out of earshot. Buffy would have seen through this..if not right at the beginning, then eventually.
This whole ep was about manipulation...the vamp mentally manipulating Buffy, "Joyce" manipulating Dawn, "Cassie" manipulating Willow...and Buffy's whole "superiority complex" begins to add a little bit of truth to the episode previews in the spoiler section, especially the one relating to Buffy's mental attitude. Check out the Spoiler section to see what I mean.
Finally, maybe it's Spike. Maybe not. But if it is, and he's feeding, SO WHAT?! Lest we forget, he came to the show as an EVIL CHARACTER. That doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed the fact that we got 3 years of comic relief from that chip in his head. But frankly, having him be the "big bad" again, would actually be a refreshing change of pace. And after all those years as a vamp, who's to say he's not finished suffering for all the wrongs he committed. Even if you have a soul, it can still be empty. He may just not care anymore. God, I wish Giles would have been around for this ep...they could have brought back Jenny again! Oh well. If anyone agrees or diagrees, let me know...or e-mail me personally. Love the feedback.
 
Question Ripperfan...although Willow did know about Cassie she did not "care" about her. Why did we not see Tara?? Perhaps there are limits to the form the evil can take.....or perhaps it was an easy fill because a contract could not be worked out with Amber Benson 😀 But, why Joyce and not Tara? Also, when did Dawnie learn to use magic??? I also do not want to see Spike go back to his old ways...although Angel himself "slipped" a bit after getting his soul back. Plus, what happened to the chip?? Lack of head pain adds evidence to the split persona/doppleganger theory.
 
whoa that was a mouthful well said! i totally agree that was so not Joyce that was something using her image totally, becuase Buffy would never choose her over Dawn i mean she has already died for her once!
 
SHLBLYN, in the ep, "Cassie" stated that Willow was not allowed to see or directly speak with Tara because of the fact that Willow killed someone. Granted, Cassie may not have been Cassie, but perhaps that part is true, and why whatever the heck this is couldn't use Tara's form...but if it had...and it had been "Tara" in front of Willow, could you see Willow giving the suicide idea more thought? If she thought it could make things better for both herself and everyone else? Dawn casting spells? Not even sure how she learned, let alone got ingredients...Maybe she still has a stash from The Magic Box from her klepto days...
 
Well this ep would have been a little more frightening for me had I not read the wildfeed earlier today. As much as I love spoilers this was too much for me - I knew what was coming in every scene.

So here's my take. The Shapeshifter Morphy was DEFINATELY at work - as Cassie, Warren and I believe Joyce.

Apparently Morphy has been appearing to Andrew for some time due to Warren's comment to Andrew "You've been doing great". The seal of Danthazar must have something to do with launching the wrath of "big bad" and Johnathan truly wanted to reform and help Buffy to stop whatever is coming. My opinion is that Morphy needed redeemed blood of some sort given the way Johnathan's blood perfectly flowed onto the seal.

The reason I believe that Morphy was also Joyce is just as someone said previously that joyce would have done anything to protect Dawn from being hurt. She also would NEVER have turned her daughters against each other.

Morphy was obviously Cassie given the whole "No not it...me" speech. Willow must be the only one who can truly harm Morphy since Cassie-Morphy tried to convince Willow to not do magic again and then try to commit suicide. Even Cassie-Morphy knew that was one step too far. And the whole mouth opening then disappearing thing - did taht remind anyone else of the Hellmouth wormy things in "Prophecy Girl"? The teeth thing too - Willow mentioned that in "Lessons" - about the Hellmouth having teeth and it was going to devour everything or something like that.

I agree that this whole thing has to do with manipulation and trust. Morphy is trying to get the strongest Scoobies - Buffy, Willow, Dawn(her strength has something to do with being the Key I think) to distrust each other and is manipulating the weak ones - Andrew, Spike(weak due to the soul thing). I also think *it's* trying to get Buffy and gang to distrust their own judgement. If they are all unsure of their strengths then they will be easier to defeat.

I am sooooooo looking forward to the rest of this season. I hope it continues past this season but if not - BOY is Joss taking us out on a high note!
 
Jonathon is dead!! This is one really sad thing to see! He has been w/ Buffy since the beginning. That is really depressing.

Also, I think that Alyson Hannigan was excellant in this episode. I was glad she finally started to doubt "Cassie". I starting doubting her when she first said that Tara had said that she would kill everyone.

The song at the beginning was really good. I would like to know who the band was that performed.

The whole dialogue between Buffy and the vamp was really funny, dramatic, and sad all at the same time! I loved it.

I'm still confused about the whole Spike thing, though.

Where were Xander and Anya?????? I would have liked to see them.

Overall, one of the best eppies yet.

I can't wait till next week's episode.

Oh yeah, the whole Dawn/Joyce seen really freaked me out. I don't think the Joyce ghost was really her though. I think she was an evil incarnation like Cassie.

The actress who played Cassie did a really good job. Kudos to her. 🙂
 
On top of what everyone else said... Man... that Cassie eating herself thing was freaky! I think it manifested itself as Cassie, and not Tara because this way Tara would be an incentive for Willow to kill herself. "You can't see her now... you can only talk to her through me... BUT, if you kill yourself, you can SEE her! BE with her!"

The vamp guy was great. Especially when Buffy was lying on the grave like a shrink's couch! But it was weird how they kept going back and forth between fighting and psychotherapy!

Dawn was really great in this Ep. But a lot of questions are raised about her story. FIrst and foremost being, when did she learn magic and a banishing spell? It's a toss up, though, as to whether the ghost of Joyce was real or the shapeshifter. I mean... the ghost was under attack. So it could really have been Joyce (with an odd message to her daughter) and the shapeshifter/hellmouth powers were trying to keep her from delivering her message, or BOTH Joyce and the demon-thingy were, well, the demon-thingy and it was all a ploy to get Dawn to trust Joyce's ghost. Also, what is Buffy supposedly going to choose over Dawn, and about what? Dawn showed some real strength though... I loved it when the thingy was telling her to get out (why I don't know) but she stayed to protect her "mother" (Who's dead by the way... is protection really needed?) And I thought it was funny when she pulled part of the wall out with the arrow... a lot of strength for a 16-odd year old!

Like everyone else, I'm totally confused about Spike. I mean, total shift in character from last week's ep. to this one. Last week he was "with" the team, helping out, and this week he's siring vamps? did he do the girl too? And what happened to the Chip? And what happened to his soul and the guilt?
 
OMG!! I just finished watching it and this ep was amazing!! This is the way Buffy should and always be. I can't believe that Buffy poured out her problems to that vampire. I was laughing through most of it. The vamp was just too funny. I can't believe that Spike is out and about and he can kill people again. The only way that I can think of about how he is getting around the chip is the demon "beneath you" that is making everything go crazy. I guess that it is the only thing that has the power to restore Spike to what he was. Dawnie was really good in this ep also.

I don't think that I could have stayed in the house that long to cast out that demon. I just wonder if the demon used the image of their mother to confuse Dawnie. I don't think that Buffy will turn her back on Dawnie. Anyway, that's my two cents on the ep. It was really great!!!😀 😀 Oh, poor Jonathan. I can't believe that he is gone. I think that he would have been a great help to Buffy and her friends. 🙁
 
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