Question On girls and slash

[Professor Walsh]

Upon my re-entering the world of fan fiction after some years absence, I'm struck by how many female writers who write male/male slash fiction. I'm quite aware that it's not new (any shoeboxers here?), but all of a sudden I feel like it is everywhere.

Why do so many women/girls choose to write m/M slash? (Remember to keep your answer inside the borders of good clean family entertainment we can trust. :smileyb: )

 

[Big Damn Hero]

Because it's hotttt.

Well, I think it's hot. *shrug*

 

[Skytteflickan88]

One guy = hot

Two guys = superhot

Three guys = HOOOOOT!

Four guys = Now my attention is split, I'm getting confused, but it's still hot.

But seriously, I think it's natural for female writers to want to write/read about that. It's still kinda taboo, and for a straight female, it's more exotic than the male on female sex (unless the straight female writer is used to being part of guy/guy/female threeways, but I assume lots of slash writers aren't).

 

[Amanda108]

While I do find it much hotter than m/f or f/f that has nothing to do with why I ship a few slash pairings and I’m pretty sure most people who have OTPs that are slash would be insulted if anyone suggested that ‘hot’ was the only reason (I’m not accusing anyone here of having said that and there’s nothing wrong with calling it hot. I just mean that the thought of it as no better than porn for women is a misconception - slash can be innocent and 'G' rated. Slash=sex is a very old-by-internet-standards definiton of it.).

Why does someone ship Spuffy or Tillow? Every answer will be different for each individual pairing and person and it’s the same case with m/m slash. It comes down to: you just like the ship. Something about it ‘clicks’ with you. And, yes, it may be very hot and that can help with your love for it 😉

Now, people who only ship slash and won't consider another option: I have no answer for why that is, nor do I have an answer for why some people only ship het. I don’t understand judging your pairings off of gender or canon-status.

Why it's more women and girls? Hot may very well be a factor. I have no idea.

ETA: I'm using 'shipping' in place of 'writing' because many people like slash without writing, and presumably if you write it you also ship it.

 

[StuckinTraffic]

Hot. Super hot. Way hot. Did I mention it's HOT?

 

[TheGrandmaster]

Probably the same reason blokes like watching videos of lesbians 😉

 

[Amanda108]

I just realized we might not all have the same definition of "slash" as a label on fanfic if some of us aren't as into fanfiction as others.

The old one (which is acceptable in most forums, but hardly ever used in hardcore fanfic places) = sexually explicit, which is why you might think hot is the main reason

The new one (and the one that is common for most people) = any romantic or sexual relationship (any rating, no sex required) between two males

Sometimes people who aren't really into fanfic don't realize the definition has changed, which though it seems like a small thing can actually cause offensive problems. It might help to say which version you're using before stating your opinion.

 

[StuckinTraffic]

Still hot. Way hot. Super hot.

I don't care if the definition has changed, and for the record, it always meant romantic relationships between two men, whether sex was involved or not, for me. Brokeback Mtn. was hot, imo....and it really wasn't about the sex, but a love story.

 

[Amanda108]

Still hot. Way hot. Super hot.

I don't care if the definition has changed, and for the record, it always meant romantic relationships between two men, whether sex was involved or not, for me.

But, it didn’t always mean that in general, even if it did for you so I thought it would be good to define the word (edit: I didn't mean that to sound snippy, but I think it might have - sorry 🙂 ). Just look at some old archives from the 1990s. Some people might have always used that definition, but a large portion didn’t.

And, as I said above, I don't mind people calling it hot (I agree with them!). But, I'm becoming a little concerned by these answers that some people might really think women who like slash are just being shallow. As someone who has her OTP as slash (Angel/Wesley), I find that pretty offensive. Which is why I was thinking maybe people were making the mistake of assuming slash=written porn.

 

[white avenger]

The new one (and the one that is common for most people) = any romantic or sexual relationship (any rating, no sex required) between two males

Don't you mean between two people of the same sex, whether male OR female? I've seen both relationships referred to as slash.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

Maybe I'm odd this way, but if at all slash, I'd prefer female slash.

m/m doesn't really appeal to me at all.

 

[Amanda108]

Don't you mean between two people of the same sex, whether male OR female? I've seen both relationships referred to as slash.

True, opinions on that are about half and half so I should have mentioned it. I’m of the group that uses ‘femslash’ for f/f because I don’t like the notion of not differentiating between f/f and m/m. I think it depends on where you hang out on the internet as to whether or not that's common (for example, on Livejournal it's almost unheard of to call f/f just 'slash').

 

[Kean]

I read the odd bit of slash and femslash. I wouldn't be really invested in it simply because my OTP is het but there are certain Buffyverse slash and femslash ships that produce some gorgeous fiction.

What I always wonder about how female driven m/m slash is how we as females would react to a man shipping and writing femslash or making slash art/manips the way women ship m/m slash, especially on LJ where it is an extremely strong movement and where one could argue that men are being objectified?

 

[Professor Walsh]

When I look at most of the m/m slash I've seen (no matter if it's of the softer or harder kind), what I keep noticing is that a lot of the stories seem to be very heterosexual in nature. Often, they are little more than your average, straight Harlequin romance with two fandom characters in the starring rà´le. If the writers only mold their favourite characters into a m/m-flavoured heterosexual couple, then what is the point?

Does female-written m/m slash tell us something about what a fairly wide segment of women wishes to see in men?

 

[Kean]

When I look at most of the m/m slash I've seen (no matter if it's of the softer or harder kind), what I keep noticing is that a lot of the stories seem to be very heterosexual in nature. Often, they are little more than your average, straight Harlequin romance with two fandom characters in the starring rà´le. If the writers only mold their favourite characters into a m/m-flavoured heterosexual couple, then what is the point?

Does female-written m/m slash tell us something about what a fairly wide segment of women wishes to see in men?

That's interesting point about homosexual characters being molded into heterosexual situations. Would you mind expanding on it? What's the difference between a heterosexual and homosexual romance, besides the obvious physical differences?

 

[Amanda108]

Interesting points, both of you! 🙂

What I always wonder about how female driven m/m slash is how we as females would react to a man shipping and writing femslash or making slash art/manips the way women ship m/m slash, especially on LJ where it is an extremely strong movement and where one could argue that men are being objectified?

Unfortunately I’ve seen women who drool over two men and then criticize men for liking two women together. I usually just keep my mouth shut on LJ since it’s usually in their personal journal, but the hypocrisy makes me sick.

Personally, I think men who have a problem with women shipping slash and women who have a problem with men shipping femslash are both equally wrong.

When I look at most of the m/m slash I've seen (no matter if it's of the softer or harder kind), what I keep noticing is that a lot of the stories seem to be very heterosexual in nature. Often, they are little more than your average, straight Harlequin romance with two fandom characters in the starring rà´le. If the writers only mold their favourite characters into a m/m-flavoured heterosexual couple, then what is the point?

I’ve seen a lot of people say that, but I guess I’ve just been lucky as I’ve never come across it. My take on writing fictional men (not your own characters, still talking fanfic. And "general you" usage here) is that it all comes down to just keeping them in-character. If it’s believable for what we know of them in canon then the story is fine. If you’re trying to write the men into any type of stereotype (whether it be a gay relationship, a het relationship, female roles, male roles) then you aren't thinking ‘what would this individual person do?’ You’re thinking ‘what would a guy do?’, etc. And not all guys are the same.

 

[Kean]

Interesting points, both of you! 🙂



Unfortunately I've seen women who drool over two men and then criticize men for liking two women together. I usually just keep my mouth shut on LJ since it's usually in their personal journal, but the hypocrisy makes me sick.

Personally, I think men who have a problem with women shipping slash and women who have a problem with men shipping femslash are both equally wrong.

Yeah, I've come across alot of that on LJ too. It's unfortunate because I feel that if these women would allow men the same allowances they allow themselves it would be a very liberating experience.

Woman are objectified everyday of the week but so are men. I'm not saying it's right but to hate on people for doing what you yourself are doing is ridiculous to me.

 

[Lyri]

As Kean can attest to, I read slash, and unlike what she might thing, it's not really for the pretty and the hottness of two guys doing the dirty, lol.

I read, and have written, all type of fanfic, gen, het, slash and femslash, even RPS, although recently my writing has been pretty much stuck on RPS slash. It's not because I think two guys together is hotter than two girls, or a guy and a girl. It's just the story, really, I love getting pulled into a story, and if the central couple in the story happens to be the same sex, I'm not gonna stop reading just because there isn't a heterosexual couple as the main pairing.

Yes, recently, I'd been more inclined to read your fic if your main pairing is m/m, but if it's one of my favorite writers, and they've posted a new fic featuring my fandom, I'm not gonna NOT read it, just because the pairing isn't what I would normally read, if the main pairing is f/f and I like the writer, I'll read the fic and probably love it. *shrugs*

Yep, right now my main OTP is m/m, but they're not ALL m/m. I have f/f OTP's and het OTP's, and I don't discriminate. Everyone should be free to write what they want. Those girls who get pissed off at guys for writing/drawing femslash, while at the same time writing their own m/m slash should really take a look in the mirror before they open their big mouths to tear into people.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Why do so many women/girls choose to write m/M slash? (Remember to keep your answer inside the borders of good clean family entertainment we can trust. :smileyb: )

Well, I don't write it, but I love reading Spangel fan fiction.

Why? Because it's hot. Plain and simple. 😉

 

[Professor Walsh]

Firstly, since the topic of female m/m not being comfortable came up, let me say that I am not at all taking a stand in a question of sexual morals here. As long as what's going on happens between two consenting adults, I never mind. I may not be interested, but that's something completely different.

That's interesting point about homosexual characters being molded into heterosexual situations. Would you mind expanding on it? What's the difference between a heterosexual and homosexual romance, besides the obvious physical differences?

I don't believe that there is a [heterosexual romance] and a [homosexual romance] that all romances fall into, far from it. Actually, I believe that we would be far better off if our society develops in a direction where we all face fewer demands based on gender. Life would be so much simpler we could all be who we are and feel like, no matter how our emotions harmonise with societal expectations to our sex. That said, there are ways of speaking, acting and relating that are more commonly seen among one gender than the other. These little social codes are important to create a believable character.

When I'm fascinated with the wave of girls/women writing m/m slash, it has a little to do with my belief that a budding, mediocre inexperienced writer is often better off writing something she knows. Not that I see one's own experiences is the only allowed topic, but it is easier to portray emotions and dynamics that you have a rudimentary understanding of. Often, I start reading a fic only to discard it because it feels like it's just the same old song all over again. This is not something I come across only in slash, or only in fan fiction, but fan fiction makes it very clear because it uses characters I expect something from. When a story is just a run-of-the "“mill romance, action story or piece of erotica, I feel like the author has just picked a story from the shelf of sketches, some characters from the shelf of fandoms, and tugged at the characters until they fit. It's often in romances like these I feel like the characters are merely playing out the old-fashioned Harlequin romance, with one part displaying initiative and strength, the other one being the recipient, the damsel. That particular picture is a very heteronormative one, and one I dislike to boot.

I don't quite manage to get my feelings translated into conscious thought, here, but I don't have the time to write any longer. Did I answer you in a way?