Once More, with Podcast Episode 3: Is This a Penis Metaphor?

[Athena]

To be honest, it's really hard to discuss an episode out of context with the rest of the season/series, because you can only base your opinions on what you see before you. I personally saw no build up to Xander's exclusion from the group, which is why to me it felt inorganic to just suddenly have this thrust upon us.

Had I watched The Zeppo after watching the other twelve episodes in Season 3, I might feel otherwise, but we have to discuss the episode as a snapshot of time and by its own merits (unless we were comparing it to another Xander ep for example) 🙂

 

[Taake]

To be honest, it's really hard to discuss an episode out of context with the rest of the season/series, because you can only base your opinions on what you see before you. I personally saw no build up to Xander's exclusion from the group, which is why to me it felt inorganic to just suddenly have this thrust upon us.

Had I watched The Zeppo after watching the other twelve episodes in Season 3, I might feel otherwise, but we have to discuss the episode as a snapshot of time and by its own merits (unless we were comparing it to another Xander ep for example) 🙂

I accept this as your official announcement of defeat. I.e. I was right, you were wrong 😛

 

[Athena]

I accept this as your official announcement of defeat. I.e. I was right, you were wrong 😛

Ok, I admit. I was right. You were wrong. 😛

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Are you two going to continue this argument for this whole thread? We need a moderator! Oh, wait a minute...

 

[GwenRaiden]

LOLs at Buffy barking in the background. 😀

 

[Skanky Vamp]

LOLs at Buffy barking in the background. 😀

That reminds me of that scene in Scrooged when Bill Murray learns there is a spot that makes a woman bark like a dog.

 

[Taake]

LOLs at Buffy barking in the background. 😀

Yeah, that was actually Buffy Summers barking her love for The Zeppo and agreeing with me. True story. 😀

 

[Riderofapocalypse]

great podcast again!

Personally, i think Zeppo did a fantastic job illustrating Xander's life as the 'normal' guy in the 'super human' group. And it was nice to see Xander gaining confidence, knowing what he did. And ...well Faith sex. I don't think i was cheering for Xander more than i have in that episode.

Early Xander, yeah he is annoying as he is funny. Trying to be the macho man (I can relate to a degree. But so many times i'm like...Dude, sit the F back down and let the Buffy win. Go get her yogurt or mac on Willow or something!).
Season 4 Xander and on...loved his character transformation. Him not Marrying Anya, yeah, stupid, but still a good representation of how an average Joe live his life next to Buffy.

 

[Guy]

You can't blame the scoobies for making Xander insecure because it did not happen 🙂 In virtually every episode up to The Zeppo Xander was a hero and treated like an integeral part of the team, valued and loved by Buffy, Willow and Giles, encouraged by them to take part in every meeting, bit of research and fight. Then suddenly in The Zeppo we are told Buffy Willow and Giles want to protect Xander and exclude him in the hopes of protecting him. As part of the audience I had never seen them do this before, there was no build up to this at all.

So the episode should have been Xander feeling insecure, but with the others encouraging him all the way, bringing him in, making him the mvp of the team, not seeing him alone without the team, which never happened before or since.

Buffy is the one who pushed for Xander to be excluded from the fight, and the others just did what she said. And Buffy did that MANY times before:

'Welcome to the Hellmouth':

XANDER
So, what's the plan? We saddle up, right?

BUFFY
There's no 'we'. Okay? I'm the Slayer, and you're
not.

XANDER
I knew you were gonna throw that in my face.

BUFFY
Xander, this is deeply dangerous.

XANDER
I'm inadequate. That's fine. I'm less than a man.

'When She Was Bad':

WILLOW
What do we do?

BUFFY
I go to the Bronze and save the day.

XANDER
I don't like this.

GILES
Nor I.

BUFFY
Well, you guys aren't going.

WILLOW
What do you mean?

BUFFY
I can't be looking out for you three
while I'm fighting.

'Becoming':

XANDER
Calvary's here. Cavalry's a
frightened guy with a rock,
but it's here.



He shows her his lame rock. She gives him a stake.



XANDER
This is better.


He loses the rock.



BUFFY
You're not here to fight. You get
Giles out of there and run like Hell,
understood? I can't protect you.
I'm gonna be too busy killing.

Sure, Buffy usually did the "I'm alone in this" act toward ALL the scoobies before, but the rest of the scoobies got powers over time - Willow got witchy, Giles got less stuffy, Angel got more useful and less "I'm afraid", etc. So, yeah, there was precedent for Buffy telling Xander to go away so he wouldn't get hurt.

That is the action of a guilty man who was caught 'cheating', it only speaks to Xanders character in the sense that he was caught out and had to make amends. 🙂

Fine, there are other examples. How about the way Xander was a total dick about Angel in the first half of season 3, and yet grew to tolerate him and work with him in the second half? In the end of 'Graduation Day', for example, Xander even tells Buffy that Angel survived the battle, even without being asked, just because he knew it'd make her feel better. Xander would have never done that in 3x01.

But she never did before. She never singled Xander out to say stay out of the fight because you have to be kept safe. She used to tell Willow and Xander to keep out of the fight in early season 1, but that was soon forgotten and she came to rely on Xander to help her fight. By the end of the season Xander is Buffy's key in the fight against the mayor, so she soon got over her need to protect Xander. The way we see the scoobies in this episode is the only time we see them behave this way. it might be Xanders perception of them, but it isn't the audiences, or at least it isn't mine.

See above.

Take it up with Joss, he's the one who said that AoS is basically The Zeppo in series format. 😛

He'll be hearing from me! 😡

Yeah that's a terrible line!

I think it's intentionally terrible 🙂 It shows foot-in-mouth Xander at his foot-in-mouth-est.

Well that's just not true.

I was being kinda hyperbolic there, yeah.

 

[Athena]

Buffy did, on occasion, try to exclude Xander from the fight to protect him, but not at any point in the run up to this episode.... 🙂 That's why it felt inorganic to me. It was a bit 'all of a sudden'.

 

[Guy]

Buffy did, on occasion, try to exclude Xander from the fight to protect him, but not at any point in the run up to this episode.... 🙂 That's why it felt inorganic to me. It was a bit 'all of a sudden'.

That's true. I guess it works for me because it just makes sense - Xander really has no reason to be in the fights, logically. He doesn't have superpowers like Buffy and Faith and Angel, and he doesn't have any special skills like Willow and Giles. There's no reason to risk his life like that, so, Buffy is just being reasonable when she tells him to stay away.

Also, the episode begins with Xander getting seriously hurt during a fight, while the rest of the scoobies do better than him, so there's a clear reason why Buffy brings it up all of a sudden.

 

[Priceless]

By the end of S3 Xander is 'key guy' and Buffy has rallied the whole school to fight the mayor, so even if she wanted to protect those without powers she changed her mind

 

[Guy]

By the end of S3 Xander is 'key guy' and Buffy has rallied the whole school to fight the mayor, so even if she wanted to protect those without powers she changed her mind

Yes, absolutely. That's a big part of her arc in season 3 - going from isolation (being completely alone in L.A in 'Anne) to community (getting the Class Protector award, leading the entire school in battle).

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

Buffy did, on occasion, try to exclude Xander from the fight to protect him, but not at any point in the run up to this episode.... 🙂 That's why it felt inorganic to me. It was a bit 'all of a sudden'.

Frankly, I always saw the episode as a comedy (duh, it's obviously a comedy 😀). What I mean is: the episode is hyperbolic. Xander may have never been that blatantly excluded from the group, but he always felt useless and the episode tries to highlight his feelings, as opposed to the truth. We are seeing everything from his perspective and considering the intent of the episode (character progression) taking those insecurities to the extreme was the best way to do it. Everything need to go wrong for Xander at once. Also, it's a comedy. It's not really about Xander's exclusion being organic, but rather going with the concept and accepting that it's an exaggeration. I think the tone of the episode suggests that.