OPINION: Buffy Needs to Treat it's Online Fans Better.

nerd4hire

nerd4hire

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I was just listening to a fascinating talk-radio show. This lady was discussing the new dynamic of online fandom. She made an interesting point.

She was describing how from a media marketing standpoint the popularity of online fansites were a great marketing tool. It was a way of keeping in touch with what made a particular series popular. Also a hardcore fan base can be shown to be a powerful force for driving the popularity of a series. One only has to consider how Star Trek fans brought a failed series back to life, enabling Trek to evolve into the most profitable franchise in television history.

The radio lady then made a point that dropped the jaw of the talkshow host, myself, and I'm sure many listeners. She said (and I paraphrase), "Industry doesn't always get this. Believe it or not, some shows actually fight with their fans.

The talk show lady said "You're KIDDING?", and I immediately thought "BUFFY".

The industry managers of the Angel/Buffy franchise are usually apathetic, often intolerant, and sometimes even antagonistic towards the online fans of BTVS

I think it's common knowledge Buffy fans are amongst the most hardcore in all of fandom. The battle-charge online of fandom was led by Buffy fans, yet we are treated like backyard pranksters to be tolerated, yet kept under control as firmly as possible without making waves.

The hammer of copyright infringement is held over the heads of site owners, and it often falls. From time to time stuff appears on the internet of such appeal to fans it becomes popular. When that happens it mysteriously disappears. Until I hear differently, I'm going to blame the television industry.

Take all the original script sites for instance. Where did they all go? Original scripts should have been archived and made available for fan study, instead all of a sudden it's impossible to find any kind of free archive. They were openly available. Now they're not. You have to buy them.

This site (Buffy Boards) has to worry about angering the copyright Gods. Think about it. Every graphic, every logo, every Buffy/Angel quote on this site is copyrighted by the owners of BTVS and Angel. If they wanted to they could shut down this and every other Buffy fan site on the internet. The only reason they don't is the online Buffy fan phenomenon has become so big, so quick, it would be impossible to kill it without shooting themselves with the same bullet.

As I type this I can almost hear the "Anybody who has anything to do with Buffy, can do nothing wrong" sycophants responding.

They're saying "The owners of the BTVS copyright have every right to protect it. It is, after all, a business".

Here's the thing though; if it is a business, treat it like you'd like it to remain profitable. Fans will to do that for you. Intimitating them is not going to make you popular.

We Buffy Fans (and I include this site's owners in this), shouldn't allow ourselves to be treated so shabbily. The Buffy machine needs us to remain profitable.

Buffy is in reruns now. We all know it hasn't lost one tiny bit of it's popularity amongst it's hardcore fans. This fanaticism is what is going to allow the owners of the Buffy copyright to continue to make money off it. Our love of Buffy should be nurtured, not scrunched, squirming under some Nazi copyrighter boot-heel.

It would be so easy for Industry to nurture fandom. All they would have to do would be cut us some slack. Allow our love of Buffdom and curiousity concerning all things Buffy to find an outlet.

There is a creativity associated with Buffy fans that should be allowed to run free. Take fanfic for instance. Even the radio lady mentioned it. She brought up the the subject of the sheer volume of fanfic amongst Buffy fans. Buffy fans are famous for fanfic. OK maybe not for quality, but for quantity.

Have you ever seen a Buffy Fanfic contest? I haven't. or at least not on a respected site with an actual prize. I suggest this isn't because no-one wants to do it. It's because someone at the top would prefer to pretend fanfic doesn't exist, and not call attention to it.

None of this really matters, because something insidious is on the way, that will make everything moot. I heard it from the radio lady. She was a marketing professional. She said what needs to be done, and is being discussed, is consolidating internet fan activity under industry guidance.

What does this mean? No more crazy Buffy spontaneity, and creativity. No more free and open fanfic, poster making, or personal Buffy websites.

Can they do it? As I said before, it's within their power to shut down every Buffy fansite on the web, and there's not a damned thing any of us can do about it.

On that day I boycott all Buffy industry sites. I'll stash my Buffy tapes, and sit there quietly in the dark, all by myself, watching them.

I feel sad for myself to think of that.
 
I feel like I ought to say something profound in response to this. But i find myself utterly speechless... Not to mention terrified, what will i do without being able to discuss things (not necessarily important of profound) with people who have similar interests and state of mind?

The only thing i can think of to console myself is that (i like to think) these industry decrees and mandates come from the corporate suits, not the real creativity behind Buffy, the people who go to conventions, interact with fans and love and appreciate us as much as we do them....

I hope that these people in power realize (not to toot my own horn) that we, the fans, are as much a part of Buffy (and all other fictional worlds) as they are of us....

--Kindred
 
Oh hell! That isn't fair! They had better not! I'm in agreement with you Kindred...we should find those peoples and tatoo POO FACE on all thier foreheads! 😛
 
I hate to play devil's advocate here because I largely agree with you about the large corporations vs. fans - but I think that we should respect the creators' copyrights - it's how they make their living, when all is said and done. I just think it's a question of perspective and that the corporate suits take it too far.

Fan fiction is another bone of contention for me (devil's advocate again). Some of it is very good - I've thoroughly enjoyed some of the efforts on this board - but if it prevents Joss et al from exploring ideas because somebody posted something similar on a fan site and may accuse them of plagiarism: well I know which one I'd rather see or read😉

Again, I mostly agree with what you're saying but I think we've got to respect that this is the way the writers earn their wages and they should be allowed to reap all the rewards due to them for their efforts. It's the corporations that are the villains here🙂
 
That's quite all right Mr. Pointy. One of my joys in life is Devil's Advocates. Allow me to debate the issue with you.

I'm not saying copyrights shouldn't be enforced. I'm saying it's possible to enforce them with sanity in such a way the fans who support your work leave the experience with a friendly feeling towards you.

Here's an example of insane copyright enforcement, and trust me there are many more:

One time a day-care center in Ontario painted a picture of Mickey Mouse on it's fence. Disney sued them and shut the day-care center down, forcing the daycare owners to repaint the fence. By chance a rival cartoon network heard about this, and had people come down to paint their cartoon characters all over the day-care center. Now, if you happened to be a parent of one of those kids, whose lunch box would you buy the next time you're looking for one? I suspect it wouldn't be Mickey.

All I'm saying is treat your fans right, and they'll make you richer.

As far as the plagiarism thing goes, yes it's an issue. It's an issue with or without fanfic. Steven Spielberg, J J Rawlings, and many other popular creative minds have been sued for plagiarism, and not from fanfic. The danger of an unsubstantiated plagiarism lawsuit is there, with or without fanfic. I think if you weigh the dangers of allowing fanfic against the benefits of encouraging it, the latter comes out on top. It promotes a radical fanbase. If you're in reruns , particularly, you need that.
 
I agree witht bulk of what you said and while on certain levels it is disturbing I doubt that no matter if they shut down every Buffy-themed board on the net it would end people from getting together online like this. No matter what people will always get together to talk about their fav shows, politics whatever.
I dont know if "squirming under some Nazi copyrighter boot-heel"
is exactly fair, I mean no matter what they are doing they should not be compared to Nazi's, anything else but a Nazi.
 
Want another example of when copyright enforcement gets nutty?

Recently the music industry announced plans to sue dentists for playing CDs as background music in their offices.

If I was a dentist I'd burn a CD of Independent Music, and play that. Hell I'd sell the Indie artist's CDs at the desk, and mail the artist the money.
 
Believe it!!!

Dentists Are Thieves

CTV.ca News Staff

The group that collects royalties for songwriters is taking aim at an unusual source: dentists. It's not just dentists, but chiropractors and opticians -- any kind of office space that plays CDs.
Click to expand...

then

It says that every time a dentist or other health care practitioner plays music for its patients, he's stealing. The group wants the doctors to pay up for the right to play their songs.
Click to expand...
 
Hey N4H, you make some good points, so let me spin this in another direction. Do you think the obvious flaws in S7 are a result in part of the writing staff at ME trying to foil spoilers on the net? I floated this on another thread and I was whelmed at the response, but nevertheless, I think it was a factor. ME was so peeved at the spoilers getting out that they twisted violently to foil them. Just because the spoiler got out doesn't mean that the plot wouldn't be good if it happened that way. Just a related thought...and S7 could have been so much better if the spoiler-makers (isn't that a drink...oh wait that's a boilermaker) had been treated as a minor annoyance instead of a full blown threat to the storyline. We was robbed of the satisfying S7 we deserved (if you accept my premise).
 
I have no way of knowing for sure if what you suggest is true KD, but when you consider the obvious chaos and lack of direction noticeable in the latter half of S-7, you have to say it's possible.

Let's say it's true though. Is bad writing a reasonable response to a fan irritation?

Wouldn't it make more sense to continue with the kind of quality writing that got you to the dance in the first place? Spoilers didn't hurt Season 5.

The same is true of attacking fandom with copyright threats. Fan support is what kept them on the air after Season 6. Fan support for Buffy and the possibility Buffy characters might make appearances on Angel is what finally swayed network opinion to go ahead with another season of Angel.

Knowing that does it make sense to attack your fan base?
 
I think that both shows have been suffering a little bit lately. who should get the blame? i have no idea. But lets examine some things about ourselves. Even though both shows have been a little on the weak side of late, we haven't abandoned them, we've given them more support than ever! We've been there through thik and thin, stood against the trals of time and been unwavering in our love and affection of the Buffy/Angel and Mutant Enemy universes.

i think alot of what has happened lately (with the shows) can be attributed to the faults of the networks, namely a certain something brothers that shall remain name less. All throughout Buffy's run on that network, all they did was challenge the show and the fans, when buffy had to leave the network because of such things, certain members of the cast were threataning not to go on without said network (why?). And since Angel has been on that network, all they've done is shange it's schedule repeatedly, giving absolutel no respect or consideration to one of it's most popular shows (not quite, of late) or the fans that help make it so.

I'm just wondering, if there wasn't so much upheaval two years ago, would things presantly be the same? Would certain beloved producers and writters have left the show? would some of our beloved cast members still be here?

In short, if a certain big whig network had given Buffy and the fans the respect and consideration so surely deserved, would everything have take this route?

I'm sure i had a point, but i think it evaporated somewhere in there.

--Kindred
 
Wow! lotsa reading I had to do. I agree with both. Yes Joss and the writers could be sued for plagerism. But Yes I do agree more with Buffy marketing and all that junk being nicer to its fans. I few months ago there were articles and complaints on the forums about 4-5 Buffy sites being shut down and more to come. That does suck and if this site goes down I will be VERY pissed off. I've alreday lost 2 of my favourite chat board type sites. I'm hoping 3rd times a charm.
 
I wonder if 40 years from now, will BUFFY reruns still air? Are there still sites dedicated to the show? Is BUFFY heard of or referenced to?

I cannot find a single shooting script site that hasn't been shut down. Us BUFFY fans shouldn't have to fight to keep this show alive. It doesn't make sense to me. Why are "they" turning on the fans that kept the show on air?
 
Nerd4hire,

Like I said, I was being devil's advocate. I also said it was a matter of perspective - so I guess we're more or less in agreement. There are some insane copyright lawsuits - MickeyD's and D*sney are responsible for many of them (I believe McD sued a cafe owner in Scotland for calling their business McDonald's - the owner's name!) and the suits who pursue them do not seem to bother about putting off fans - so as I said, it's the corporates who are the villains.

I'd like to hear what Joss has to say on the subject of copyright and fanfic though. I had heard that J Michael Strackinsky (spelling?) of Babylon 5 and Jeremiah fame refuses to look at fan sites in case it compromises his ideas.

In the end though - if TV companies alienate the fanbase of their programmes by closing fan sites , aren't they cutting off their noses to spite their faces?

I'm Kent Brockman - this has been another edition of Kent's People 🙂
 
I can tell you the reason the scripts were pulled... they sell them. If you go to a book store and look in whatever they call their 'performing arts' section you will find BtVS script books for sale. Obviously they would be upset about fans providing the same material for free on the net. The scripts are their property and obviously they are going to want to use them to generate revenue (keep in mind that despite critical acclaim and a small but loyal fan base that BtVS and AtS tend to do poor in the ratings and aren't exactly cash cows, revenue coming in from other sources makes the shows desireable for networks to renew them... which would you rather free scripts and no more Buffyverse programming, or paying for scripts in order to support the francise and receive more quality programming from them in the future?).

As far as the graphics and whatnot on sites such as this one, there are often packages released by the big wigs which offer such things for use by sites. When there's a crack down on the net over such things it's rarely the 'big corporations' doing it, it's the actors. They often have the say over their image and seek to protect it via litigation (so blame them).

Concerning fanfic, I can see the folks at ME and the stations being worried about being sued over plagerism. I think however, that they have been fairly tolerant of it (there are many sites out there which have fanfic on them, and they seem to rarely get shut down... at least I haven't noticed it, but then again I don't really read fanfic).

Keep in mind that as far as how the folks behind BtVS treat their fans that Joss has suggested on two seperate occations that people download episodes of the actual show off the net when the studio folks didn't air them (due to the school shootings). Not many people in the industry would suggest such a thing. Overall I think that the BtVS fanbase has been treated rather well.
 
Yes Happy, it's already been stated you can no longet get the scripts for free. We knew that.

Here's the thing though: you used to be able to get them for free. Call them pirated, whatever. Industry ignored it. They let the popularity grow, then they sheared the sheep.

Personally I don't care. I saw it coming. I downloaded the original scripts, and archived them while they were still available.

I saw it coming, because I know how these guys work. They give with one hand, then take away with two.

Yes industry has offered promo pics from time to time. I'm not familiar with any widespread actor crackdown on graphics, although it wouldn't surprise me if some diva somewhere spit on her fans like that. Reference please?

Either way it doesn't matter. Industry promos are token, compared to the fanatic brand loyalty their product receives.

I doubt Industry's concerns are anything as intelligent as brand loyalty though. They take it for granted. My suspicion is they offer the odd nicknack not as an investment in their fanbase, but more as a pat on the head to the more popular sites in return for behaving themselves. It's a way of letting the underlings know where the power is.

I'll give you an example. You're not allowed to discuss filesharing on this site. Why not? It's a worldwide phenomonena and of some interest to the demographic that populates this site. You can discuss favourite films and sexual orientation at Caritas, but you can't discuss filesharing. I don't blame the site for this censorship. I blame the fatcat marketing executives. They censor their fans by offering site owners a cookie, then showing the stick. That disturbs me.

Enough of that though. Let's discuss fanfic. Tolerant of fanfic? It's one of the things that keeps Buffy's fanbase radically loving all things Buff. When they take it away (and I agree with your insinuation; they probably will) they just might be surprised to discover they've been pissing on one of the greatest free advertising campaigns television has ever had. And by the way, where do you get the idea Buffy isn't a cash cow. It's becoming the biggest franchise since Star Trek. It's conceivable it could surpass it.

This all makes me wonder what's coming next. I worry. To be honest the only thing that really bothers me is what's coming next. All the other stuff we've discussed is just fluff. I believe what the radio lady said when she forecasted a day Industry would step in to govern online fandom, in a controlled, commercial manner.

I don't want that. I don't want to be a sheep fattened for market. I just want to talk about Buffy with my Buds, read their fanfic, and look at their cool posters and such.

I don't think that's going to happen much longer though. I have the same feeling of inevitability I had when I knew the free original scripts were going to disappear soon. Something wicked this way comes.
 
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