Opinion on Spuffy/Briley

[Nikkolas]

Ya know I realize the argument is usually Spuffy vs. Bangel but I don't see why apart from the fact Angel and Spike are rivals in other areas too.

Personally I thought Spuffy was easily the weakest relationship Buffy engaged in duing the show. Why? Because I liked uber-badass Spike in Season 2. I even liked comic relief Spike in Season 4 and slowly humanizing Spike in Season 5. However what made Spike so likable and sympathetic and redeemed him some was the fact he cared for Buffy but never got anything apart from a kiss. I could remember all the horrible things he did and was said to have done but still feel pity for him due to his unrequited love.

Then Season 6 rolls around and goodbye slowly becoming good guy Spike. Why? Because Buffy's become the uber skank. I never want my protagonist, unless it' s a porno, to have sex outside a fast foof joint. Yes you could argue "but that's the point! Buffy is so confused she'd do something so revolting" but that's another reason I think Spuffy is rubbish. Buffy during the whole thing is a masochistic moron who feels nothing for Spike at all in the true romantic sense. That much is pointed out to us if it wasn't obvious already. It all rounds off with Spike becoming a crazed rapist and yeah....Season 5 Spike is forgotten and I just feel sick.

So that's my view of Spuffy. Ruffy on the other hand, as much as it's criticized, is very believable. Spike does say Buffy likes men who hurt her but as far as I saw through most of their time together Riley did nothing to hurt Buffy at all. Buffy found herself a normal guy (relatively speaking) and was happy. That's part of why they failed, of course. Riley was too normal of a man to handle Buffy's superiority. I'm no epitome of masculinity bit if my girlfriend could beat me up with one hand I'd feel like my manhood had been severed and buried in a shallow grave.
I view Riley and Buffy's romance as very human, their human flaws the cause of its downfall.

So yeah...that's just my opinion. Maybe it's my underlying hatred for Season 6 that clouds my judgment. But yeah this is just what I think so it's in no way right or absolute.

 

[ukkid09]

I like Sbuffy better because its violent and its realistic and the passion ,Bangel its to unrealistic. Its would never happen that easy but for Sbuffy, its like normal day love ..???!!!

 

[Professor Walsh]

I'm no epitome of masculinity bit if my girlfriend could beat me up with one hand I'd feel like my manhood had been severed and buried in a shallow grave.

Ah. How much easier life would be if we could focus a little less on being masculine or feminine, and a little more on just being human.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------

Its would never happen that easy but for Sbuffy, its like normal day love ..???!!!

Ahem, I don't really get what you're writing here. The relationship between Spike and Buffy doesn't excactly represent my view of normal day love, anyway.

 

[Nikkolas]

Ah. How much easier life would be if we could focus a little less on being masculine or feminine, and a little more on just being human.

Well it's just the fault of society and human nature. No one likes to feel inferior.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I don't agree that Buffy becomes a skank. Maybe u can think that way if you didn't watched season 5, because she is not a skank she is only confused. I don't like Spuffy, I said that many times, because I don't see love. I see love in Bangel, and I don't think it's unrealistic. People who say that never experienced that kind of love, but they will and I hope they'll understand. I must say that Buffy was happy with Riley at first. But in season 5, he was to obsessed with her love with Angel. He didn't saw what he had, so he lost it.

 

[Flannen]

I don't agree that Buffy becomes a skank. Maybe u can think that way if you didn't watched season 5, because she is not a skank she is only confused. I don't like Spuffy, I said that many times, because I don't see love. I see love in Bangel, and I don't think it's unrealistic. People who say that never experienced that kind of love, but they will and I hope they'll understand. I must say that Buffy was happy with Riley at first. But in season 5, he was to obsessed with her love with Angel. He didn't saw what he had, so he lost it.

I think even Buffy knows she became a bit of a 'skank' in season six. 😉

I quite liked Buffy and Riley together. I'm hardcore Bangel but I didn't have much against Riley. I think Buffy's treatment of him is where she starts to go 'downhill' for me and I don't like her very much after that.

I don't think that Riley was obsessed with her love for Angel at all in season 5. Not him specifically anyway. As far as Riley was concerned, Buffy had made her choice in 'The Yoko Factor'. Riley had a lot of personal issues in season 5 but jealousy of Angel wasn't one of them, IMO.

And Spuffy being more like everyday life? What kinda relationships you been having? 😉 lol

 

[MinwaraYana]

First of all, I like the 'ship name Briley more than Ruffy. 🙂

I was wondering why I liked Spike less and less after season 5 and why I like him more again in Angel S5. So thanks for pointing it out.

I like Briley. But deep down he didn't understand her Slayer world even he thought he did. Buffy always saw him as a weaker man. On the other hand, Angel and Spike understood her more that she didn't even have to explain. She never let Riley in completely. Poor Riley. I'm sure if she gave him more time, he could be a man that she spend her life with(if Angel won't became human some day, of course 😉).

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I think even Buffy knows she became a bit of a 'skank' in season six. 😉

I quite liked Buffy and Riley together. I'm hardcore Bangel but I didn't have much against Riley. I think Buffy's treatment of him is where she starts to go 'downhill' for me and I don't like her very much after that.

I don't think that Riley was obsessed with her love for Angel at all in season 5. Not him specifically anyway. As far as Riley was concerned, Buffy had made her choice in 'The Yoko Factor'. Riley had a lot of personal issues in season 5 but jealousy of Angel wasn't one of them, IMO.

And Spuffy being more like everyday life? What kinda relationships you been having? 😉 lol

I will never call Buffy a skank. I think she just made some wrong choices, and we all did something like that. When I'm confused I do some things that are wrong, and not like me. And when I said he was obsessed with Angel I thought about that thing Riley said to Buffy when she found him with that vampire skank.. he wanted to know why she is so worked up about Angel and Dracula, was it because of the feeling? But I don't gave anything against Riley, but I like him more in season 4.

 

[Tranquillity]

Nikkolas, you do know there was a season seven, right? 😉

 

[ukkid09]

I felt that Sbuffy was great tv ..Bangel it was to easy for an relationship nothing really happened badly lol,But for spike and Buffy relationship , has danger , happy, and sadness, passion .Different type of emotions..

 

[Nikkolas]

Nikkolas, you do know there was a season seven, right? 😉

Yes. Buffy took pity on Spike's derangement because of The First and the return of his soul. Then she said she loved him to be nice since he was going to die and all.

And wait, in season seven she says she loved Angel more than anyone else I am pretty sure.

 

[Wesley]

I like Sbuffy better because its violent and its realistic and the passion ,Bangel its to unrealistic. Its would never happen that easy but for Sbuffy, its like normal day love ..???!!!

I felt that Sbuffy was great tv ..Bangel it was to easy for an relationship nothing really happened badly lol,But for spike and Buffy relationship , has danger , happy, and sadness, passion .Different type of emotions..

My young British friend, I enjoy your contributions to the site and hope they continue but I feel it's in your best interests if I clear some things up for you.

Most egregious thing first, I can understand how you and others (and even me) like the idea of Spike and Buffy but I want you to be aware in your future romantic relationships that what they had was neither realistic or normal. Most relationships that you will have will not involve attempted rape, intense self-loathing and anger, or public sex acts on your lawn/in the local club. Spuffy was great TV, if sometimes a little gritty and hard for me to watch.

off-topically, Buffy and Angel was a 'hit you over the head' level metaphor for 'OMG I slept with a boy and now he's acting mean and stuff.' It's, at least in that sense, much more realistic. You're much more likely to be involved in a relationship where people change after sleeping with you then you are to be in one where then any of the stuff I mentioned above.

on-topically, Briley/Ruffy is a good relationship I like to think it explores a lot of interesting things. However it's a pretty straight forward 'rebound' situation and poor Riles never had a chance. Was it 'better' then Spuffy? That's hard to say I guess it all depends on how you define it. I don't think it was better TV heh, it was definitely more realistic. I think it failed due to both their human faults, I agree with you on that point. So... yes I guess I agree.


(Also, having public hate sex with a British punk rocker is like... a good 70% skanky)

 

[The Ferg]

I LOVE Riley. I'm probably one of the only people on thsi board that does, but I do. He's friggin great. Not to mention, I kind of a thing for the all American guy... (not in a sexual way you pervs)

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

My young British friend, I enjoy your contributions to the site and hope they continue but I feel it's in your best interests if I clear some things up for you.

Most egregious thing first, I can understand how you and others (and even me) like the idea of Spike and Buffy but I want you to be aware in your future romantic relationships that what they had was neither realistic or normal. Most relationships that you will have will not involve attempted rape, intense self-loathing and anger, or public sex acts on your lawn/in the local club. Spuffy was great TV, if sometimes a little gritty and hard for me to watch.

off-topically, Buffy and Angel was a 'hit you over the head' level metaphor for 'OMG I slept with a boy and now he's acting mean and stuff.' It's, at least in that sense, much more realistic. You're much more likely to be involved in a relationship where people change after sleeping with you then you are to be in one where then any of the stuff I mentioned above.

on-topically, Briley/Ruffy is a good relationship I like to think it explores a lot of interesting things. However it's a pretty straight forward 'rebound' situation and poor Riles never had a chance. Was it 'better' then Spuffy? That's hard to say I guess it all depends on how you define it. I don't think it was better TV heh, it was definitely more realistic. I think it failed due to both their human faults, I agree with you on that point. So... yes I guess I agree.


(Also, having public hate sex with a British punk rocker is like... a good 70% skanky)

Great post Wesley. I completely agree about the definite lack of "normality" with Spuffy. The destructive relations Buffy had with Spike were intended to be a representation of how she felt inside - her self-loathing, depression at being ripped from heaven, punishing Spike for loving her because she didn't feel she deserved it, etc. And I agree that Spuffy did make great TV - this is why I think they're by far the most interesting "couple" on the show.

Agreed regarding Bangel, as well. You'd be surprised by how many people don't pick up on that metaphor (which by the way, is brilliant.)

And lastly, Briley never did stand a chance, I completely concur. He did love her , and she cared for him but yes, they broke up for very "human reasons" as you stated. He felt unappreciated and when and did something really stupid to make himself feel wanted - dumb yes, but unlikely? Hardly.

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

I agree with most of what you said except the part about Spuffy being more "adult" than Bangel. I actually disagree with this. Though Bangel was more idealized, and Buffy was younger than, I feel on some level they were more mature to each other then Spuffy was at a point.

Personally, Spuffy is so complicated for me that in order to focus I separate Spuffy into three phases. Phase 1: Spike is obsessed with Buffy, infatuated with her, intent on killing her and "having her." Not in love with her yet, realizes it in "Out of my Mind." Buffy dies. Spike is committed to protecting her sister and honoring her mission by taking it on himself.

Phase 2: Buffy is back from dead. Buffy and Spike begin sleeping together. Shes uses him to "feel." He loves her and feels used. She dumps him. They are allies, she trusts him with her friends/family but they're not friends, really. She still can't see him as a human, he is still a monster to her.

Phase 3: They develop a real, true friendship based on mutual respect and mutual admiration. She realizes she has feelings for him. He dies.

In my opinion, Buffy acted like a child at times regarding Spike in phase 2. She treated him like dirt, used him for her own selfish desires, used him as her personal punching bag, and knowing full well she didn't intend to give him the full love he wanted (and arguably deserved). When Spike asks her "why they can't sleep together" I see that as being really immature - he knows it's because "she doesn't love him." In S6, Buffy was operating on a completely selfish level - it was all about her and rightly so. She was sad, lost, confused and seeking comfort. Spike loved her enough to take the abuse. It took Riley coming back and the reminder of that relationship they once had for her to realize what she was doing to Spike was wrong and to break it off with him. She said "its killing me" and she wasn't lying. It had nothing to do with Spike or how much she wanted him. It had to d with her and her morals.

 

[ubi4soft]

Buffy's become the uber skank.

Buffy during the whole thing is a masochistic moron

I never want my protagonist, unless it' s a porno, to have sex....

too normal of a man to handle Buffy's superiority

I'm no epitome of masculinity bit if my girlfriend could beat me up with one hand I'd feel like my manhood had been severed and buried in a shallow grave.

Ah. How much easier life would be if we could focus a little less on being masculine or feminine, and a little more on just being human.

Well it's just the fault of society and human nature. No one likes to feel inferior.

I haven't seen so many misogynistic statements in one post/thread!

Welcome to the board Warren

 

[Flannen]

I haven't seen so many misogynistic statements in one post/thread!

Welcome to the board Warren

I think that is a little uncalled for. Nikkolas is clearly having a bit of a joke here, (at least I hope you are now I've said it 😛)

You've taken those quotes completely out of context and if you had chosen to quote the whole sentences it wouldn't be so easy to slap the label of misogyny on them.

I'm a female and I don't think these are in any way misogynistic. They are simply candid and rather amusing. I agreed with everything he said and I don't hate women, clearly, cos I am a woman!

You are obviously more than entitled to take them that way but I think its unfair to have taken them so far out of the context in order to do so.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

or public sex acts on your lawn/in the local club.

Actually that is rather normal for me... I should tell you some stories about when I went to Ann Arbor for the weekend.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I haven't seen so many misogynistic statements in one post/thread!

Welcome to the board Warren

Whoa. People can and do express their opinions here. It's OK. And I think you misunderstood what was said.

While I don't agree that Buffy was acting like a "skank" because she wanted to engage in some no-strings attached sex with Spike (I think we can all agree she did have *reasons* for her behavior) I do agree that Buffy was indeed superior to Riley and that was the cause of their breakup. I don't mean this because I think women are superior to men - I mean in the sense that she was The Slayer, the Chosen one, and he was just a regular guy. I realize not all see it this way, but I think it played a large part in their breakup. He felt less than her - physically and emotionally, I think. He didn't feel wanted and loved so we went else ware for that feeling. Riley got sick of being put "second place." He wanted to be her first priority - when it was and should always be her mission that matters.

This just reinforces my personal belief that Buffy needs and desires to be with a Champion - a person of equal physical and emotional strength, better than human. There were no equality with Briley. He loved her completely, and gave up everything for her. And what was he to her? He was her "rebound guy." The guy she kept at a distance because she didn't want to get hurt again. Believe me, I dislike Riley at times, but he didn't deserve that.

 

[ubi4soft]

Whoa. People can and do express their opinions here. It's OK. And I think you misunderstood what was said.

I hope I misunderstood what was said.

What really upset me was the "inferior" reference that was made when called on a genderless point of view.

I'll just "skank" away to the first available British punk rocker

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

I felt the OP came across a tad sexist too, i must've read it wrong.
Anyway, i like Riley and Ruffy/Briley the more i watch it. It was obvious Buffy never gave Riley a real chance, but i do think he was majorly lame for being bothered by him being weaker than Buffy, i mean, you'd think he didn't know she was the slayer.
But i do feel kinda bad for him, the way he let Buffy break

---------- Post added at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 AM ----------

his heart. He just threw himself right into that relationship, he intended to fall in love almost straight away, even though it was obvious she was never 'that' into him. He showed he was very inexperienced away from all the army stuff.