Opinions about open relationships?

[Tueuse de Vampires]

Okay, I feel like I need to point out the difference between friends with benefits and an open relationship...cos in my opinion and experience, it's far from the same.

I've done the friends with benefits thing, and it has nothing of a relationship. Maybe I did it with the wrong guys, but there's absolutely no obligation. You hang out with them when you hang out with your other friend, and when you're alone you sleep together. There's no respect, genuine feelings, obligation or anything else you would expect from a relationship. There's basically no romantic feelings, it's mostly just getting laid because you're both single and it makes you feel good.
Now in a relationship, even an open one, there definitely should be some feelings. Even when you're not exclusive with someone, I'd still expect some commitment. The friends with benefits thing is usually JUST to get laid, an open relationship isn't, I'd assume.

 

[zobothehobo]

It sounds some of you might be interested in American Marriage. It's a documentary we learned about in Sociology this past semester, it looks really good. It's not done yet... but you can watch the ten minute grant proposal trailer if you enter the site. It examines the history of marriage and what it means in today's society... it talks about divorce rates and anti divorce laws as well as gay marriage rights. It also talks about the different reasons why people get married and the flaws in the institution of marriage... and from what I can tell, it talks about the beauty too.

 

[Willow My Love]

I very, very much hope for your sake that that's not what you were hurt by. You were hurt by someone breaking a rule of your relationship, which in your case, just happened to be the monogamy/exclusivity clause. If you can actually get hurt merely "by someone deciding to be with someone other than you", then yes, I do think you have serious insecurity issues, and those would scare me off even becoming close friends with you, let alone partners

In a monogamous relationship, someone choosing someone other than you is painful. It's not because they've merely "broken a clause". It's because they've shattered your trust. It's not an insecurity issue. It's a trust issue.

She wouldn't have needed to go looking for her, but if Kennedy comes along, why on earth should Willow be blind for her just because Tara is there?

It's becoming abundantly clear to me that you consider monogamy like a prison. To me, that shows a HUGE fear of commitment, and more insecurity than I can type out.

To bring it to the point: If you "need noone else", and something ever happens to your partner, or if you ever split up, what do you do? Consider suicide because your life is a shambles? Or live a lonely, bitter, loveless life? Or seek someone else (proving that your partner is exchangable after all)?

No one could ever take my person's place. Ever. We wouldn't split up. That fact I'm incredibly confident in. There's too strong a love there. But if death were the reason, I'd be content to be alone. I've had my great love in my life, and I'd take complete solace in that. I'd be sad they're not here, but I'd never be bitter, lonely, or loveless. I've got all sorts of friends and family around me, mine and theirs. But no one could take that place. No one could ever come close. I would NEVER consider suicide. It's NOT an option. Ever. I would still feel their love. I've found my one and only, and I mean that.

 

[InsaneMystic]

In a monogamous relationship, someone choosing someone other than you is painful. It's not because they've merely "broken a clause". It's because they've shattered your trust. It's not an insecurity issue. It's a trust issue.

Hun, you're missing the point. It's only a monogamous relationship because that clause is in effect. Without the clause, there would be no breach of trust at all. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a matter of trust in and of itself who someone sleeps with, be they your partner or not. Unless you have made an arrangement to be monogamous, it's simply not your business who your partner sleeps with. Where on earth does trust figure into that? It's illogical.

If you have made that arrangement, and then your partner sleeps with someone else, yes, then it's a betrayal of trust. But not because of the sex, itself, but because of the breach of promise. And that's the point.

It's becoming abundantly clear to me that you consider monogamy like a prison. To me, that shows a HUGE fear of commitment, and more insecurity than I can type out.

Duh, of course I fear commitment, just as I fear blindness, or becoming paraplegic.

I do not want to live a loveless life, and exclusive commitments would condemn me to that. I do not see how that's anything to do with insecurity, on the contrary. I am secure in the knowledge that exclusive commitments would ruin my life, and that I'm not gonna put up with the monogamy stuff for that reason.

No one could ever take my person's place. Ever. We wouldn't split up. That fact I'm incredibly confident in. There's too strong a love there. But if death were the reason, I'd be content to be alone. I've had my great love in my life, and I'd take complete solace in that. I'd be sad they're not here, but I'd never be bitter, lonely, or loveless. I've got all sorts of friends and family around me, mine and theirs. But no one could take that place. No one could ever come close. I would NEVER consider suicide. It's NOT an option. Ever. I would still feel their love. I've found my one and only, and I mean that.

If that works for you, fine. It still sounds horrible to me to be a) this dependent/fixated on one person and b) planning your life out like that, when noone (yes, noone, not even you and your person) knows what tomorrow may bring.

Even if I risk to sound arrogant - I'm immensely grateful that I'm not in your position, yours would be a life of constant fear for me... fear that breeds lies and anger, and kills all hope for love.

 

[Elfangor]

I think if it works for a couple then by all means go for it. It is not for me...I tend to be the jealous type sometimes and would not handle sharing all that well. Hehe

 

[Tara Maclay]

I don't think they're right or fair, but I don't think S&M is right either. Consenting adults can do whatever they want, I just wouldn't partake.

 

[Abbeycat]

A open relationship would not work for me but if it works for others than they can go for it.

 

[mayfever]

I don't think they're right or fair, but I don't think S&M is right either. Consenting adults can do whatever they want, I just wouldn't partake.

Why do we always have to apply labels such as "right" and "wrong"? Doesn't everyone have to decide for themselves what feels right for them, and leave the rest of humanity make their own choices? The only "wrong" thing is to assume that there is such a thing as "wrong". It's all relative.

 

[Mumrik]

I meant to reply to this thread and then kind of ... didn't?

While I don't see an open relationship working for me at this point in my life, I have no problem with the concept. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, with clear cut rules that everyone agrees to and follows and as long as nobody gets hurt, it's none of my business what they get up to.

Personally, I haven't been in a relationship yet where I have reached the point where I desired, erm, other people's company except my girlfriend's/boyfriend's, but if I'm involved with someone for a longer time than I have been up until now, who knows what'll happen? I'm not even sure if I actually believe in lasting monogamous relationships. I'd like to, but I have my doubts. I do believe in love, though, and I think you can love a person until you die, but I can easily see something going missing along the way once habit settles in. So I think having an open relationship could actually save a relationship. If I were with someone who wouldn't be willing to do that, we'd have to go our separate ways. I wouldn't want anyone (least of all myself) to be miserable just because of love. But that's just my point of view and my interpretation of it, I'm aware there are other, completely different interpretations of an open relationship. But this is what I could see working for me.

And now I may have quite unkowingly affirmed a stereotype.

ETA:

Big Damn Hero agrees: I thought we were in an open relationship missy! Where's that honesty and communication everyone keeps bangin' on about?!

Would this be a good time to tell you I'm Facebook-married? (And a priest, but only on New Year's Eves.)

 

[zobothehobo]

If you have made that arrangement, and then your partner sleeps with someone else, yes, then it's a betrayal of trust. But not because of the sex, itself, but because of the breach of promise. And that's the point.

At that point the sex, itself is the breach of promise. And it does break the trust if someone promises you something and then does the opposite. Cheating is wrong. Open relationships are fine and dandy, I don't have a problem with someone being in them... but cheating is wrong. Cheating condones lying to someone(s) you supposedly love. Cheating has a rush of doing wrong because it is wrong. And it is the sex itself... To me, sex is a very intimate thing. I've done the whole whoring around thing and I hated it. So I've decided that for me, sex is ONLY with people I really love. Sex is a very intimate thing... the thought of someone I'm with, someone I've decided is worthy of having sex with me because I love them that much having sex with someone else... it makes me feel like I'm not good enough for them. That they didn't love me nearly as much as I love them.

You can go on and on about your "loving many people" idea... and I do believe it's possible to be in love with more than one person at a time. But I also believe it gets to a point where you have to make a choice... Because if you love someone, you don't ever want to hurt them by making them feel you don't love them as much as they love you. If you want to sleep with and be in a relationship with both people, it's important to tell them... because cheating accomplishes nothing but hurting those around you.

 

[InsaneMystic]

At that point the sex, itself is the breach of promise.

Happens to be, not is by itself. (And no, that's not just ornery pickyness, it's a very important difference.)

And it does break the trust if someone promises you something and then does the opposite. Cheating is wrong. Open relationships are fine and dandy, I don't have a problem with someone being in them... but cheating is wrong. Cheating condones lying to someone(s) you supposedly love. Cheating has a rush of doing wrong because it is wrong. [...] Because if you love someone, you don't ever want to hurt them by making them feel you don't love them as much as they love you. If you want to sleep with and be in a relationship with both people, it's important to tell them... because cheating accomplishes nothing but hurting those around you.

On all of this, 110% agreed from my side!

I can just repeat though - the problem with that is not a sexual one, it's one of dishonesty and breach of promise. In the matter of sexual fidelity, that breach of promise just happens to involve genitalia. In my ship, e.g., it would definitely be cheating if I more-than-friendly-peck kissed someone in front of my shipmate's eyes (and I could never see myself doing that, and would be quite hurt if she did that, too - and I trust that she won't, exactly for the reason of the hurtfulness), while it is not cheating to do much more than just kissing while the other is not around. It's all a matter of what peeps agree to in their ship.

And it is the sex itself... To me, sex is a very intimate thing. I've done the whole whoring around thing and I hated it. So I've decided that for me, sex is ONLY with people I really love. Sex is a very intimate thing...

Agreed to this too. I just don't see why that level of intimacy should be there only with one of your close friends.

[T]he thought of someone I'm with, someone I've decided is worthy of having sex with me because I love them that much having sex with someone else... it makes me feel like I'm not good enough for them. That they didn't love me nearly as much as I love them.

You can go on and on about your "loving many people" idea... and I do believe it's possible to be in love with more than one person at a time. But I also believe it gets to a point where you have to make a choice... Because if you love someone, you don't ever want to hurt them by making them feel you don't love them as much as they love you. If you want to sleep with and be in a relationship with both people, it's important to tell them... because cheating accomplishes nothing but hurting those around you.

Please don't take it personal, as I do not mean this as offense to you. 🙂 But the choice it boils down to is, basically, not to get sexually involved with someone who puts such an (to me) emotionally overcharged/-burdened importance on sex. Really, sex is just one way of expressing love, no more and no less. I think monogamists really, really overrate the importance of sex. (Strangely enough, they tend to think it's the polys who overrate it. Ah well. 😛)

One of the (many, many) reasons why I love my shipmate (and I love her to bits - if I were prone to that idea, I'd actually be very much at risk of considering her "The One", as we're such a perfect match :heart: even been joking about that if we were to be into that kinda thing, which we thankfully both aren't, it'd be not too unlikely that we'd end up married, lol) is that we're both secure about how much we mean to each other, and that no amount of loving (including love-making) with others stands a chance to ruin that.

 

[randiann]

....You can go on and on about your "loving many people" idea... and I do believe it's possible to be in love with more than one person at a time. But I also believe it gets to a point where you have to make a choice... Because if you love someone, you don't ever want to hurt them by making them feel you don't love them as much as they love you. If you want to sleep with and be in a relationship with both people, it's important to tell them... because cheating accomplishes nothing but hurting those around you.

But that is exactly what IM is saying. He's stating he's openly honest with all the people he becomes interested in in order to prevent any of these hurt feelings. Not to say it doesn't happen ever, I'm sure it does. But for some people, they may not feel that their relationships come to a point where they have to choose between one person and the other. Equate it to picking one (plutonic) friend over the other, or one sibling over the other. Although those are two very different types of relationships, it's the same concept. To me, if I were to be in a polymorous relationship I wouldn't be able to choose. You state if you love someone, you don't ever want to hurt them, but what if you love two people (or three, or fifteen) equally as much? Are you supposed to pick between two loves? I sure couldn't. And if I had a lover who gave me an ultimatium of "pick me or everyone else," I'd most likely pick everyone else on principle alone. And I get where IM is coming from. He doesn't want monogamy. He doesn't want to have that proverbial ball and chan tethered to him. And that's his choice. Just because marriage works for 40-50% of people (and you really can't argue more than that when you take into consideration the people who never marry and those who divorce) it doesn't work for everyone. And that's ok.

I think there are several different levels of "open relationships" or polymorous relationships as well that we need to take into consideration. Not every one is the same. In my own words, there's:

Friends with Benefits: Mainly friendship with sex without the romance or commitment, more informal in nature without many rules or restrictions that other relationships may have.

Open Relationships: When two or more people are in a relationship with each other but recognize that they both have the right to engage in other romantic relationships with other people. May be one-sided or go for both parties. More formal in nature than just "friends" but ranges from semi-formal relationships to full on commitment. Comes with rules, restrictions on what is okay and what is not, and lots of honesty.

"Swingers": Two (or more) people who are in a serious committed relationship who like to involve others in their relationships sexually. Does not usually involve the romantic aspect of the relationship between the parties. Think monogamous couple who has another monogamous couple (or single person, or multiple monogamous couples, etc. etc) in which they engage in a sort of "friends with benefits" relationship. Involves LOTS of rules, and LOTS of honesty. Each person has the right to restrict their partner's actions and involvement with others more so than people in an open relationship.

Religious Polymorous relationships: When people believe it is their religious duty to marry or love or engage in multiple relationships for whatever reason. Think "Big Love" and "Sister Wives."

Monogomy: Good ol I like you, she likes me, we get jealous if the other even looks at another sort of relationship. What most of us have (to a degree) or strive for. Not always the most realistic relationship. AKA vanilla relationship.


Me; I'm in a monogomus (geez these words are hard on my brain tonight spelling wise) marriage. But I have friends who are "swingers" and who openly admit to it. For them, they are married and committed, but like to have a few extra curricular activities. They have their own specific rules about it, and never go behind each others backs in their actions. They do everything together. IF I were to engage in anything other than monogomy, it would be a degree of this. To me, for my partner to be with someone else while I'm not there wouldn't work. But for us to involve someone else together might be a different story. IF one is to engage in this though, then both parties have to be very secure in their relationship and not the jealous type.

To be perfectly honest, it's not something I ever see myself engaging in. We've talked about it to an extent just for sh!ts and giggles more than anything else, but it's not something I think either myself or my husband want. But at the same time, I don't see anything wrong with it either. It's all about knowing your boundaries and communicating with others.

Communication communication communication! It's the key to ANY working relationship.

 

[zobothehobo]

Happens to be, not is by itself. (And no, that's not just ornery pickyness, it's a very important difference.)

I guess I just don't see it. Like I said, I put a lot of emotional importance into sex. The sex itself is enough to be hurtful.

I can just repeat though - the problem with that is not a sexual one, it's one of dishonesty and breach of promise. In the matter of sexual fidelity, that breach of promise just happens to involve genitalia. In my ship, e.g., it would definitely be cheating if I more-than-friendly-peck kissed someone in front of my shipmate's eyes (and I could never see myself doing that, and would be quite hurt if she did that, too - and I trust that she won't, exactly for the reason of the hurtfulness), while it is not cheating to do much more than just kissing while the other is not around. It's all a matter of what peeps agree to in their ship.

I totally agree, cheating is defined differently in every relationships and it's important to be honest with your partner about where you personally draw that line.

I get that in your relationship kissing someone else in front of your partner is cheating but sleeping with someone not in font of your partner is not cheating... and that's fine. Like I said, I have no problems with open relationships. Like I think they're fine... they're just not for me. But I'm glad you and your girl know where the boundaries lie in your relationship and I'm glad you're happy.

Agreed to this too. I just don't see why that level of intimacy should be there only with one of your close friends.

I guess for me, if I'm in a relationship with someone, they're not just one of my close friends. I don't have sex with my close friends. I had sex with one close friend and she and I aren't close anymore. Romantic love is very different from friendship love. If I'm going to have sex with someone, I want to romantically love them.

Please don't take it personal, as I do not mean this as offense to you. 🙂 But the choice it boils down to is, basically, not to get sexually involved with someone who puts such an (to me) emotionally overcharged/-burdened importance on sex. Really, sex is just one way of expressing love, no more and no less. I think monogamists really, really overrate the importance of sex. (Strangely enough, they tend to think it's the polys who overrate it. Ah well. 😛)

I agree sex is just one way of expressing love and it certainly isn't the only way I'd express love if I was in a relationship. But to me, it's one of the most important ways to express love. Just think about the orgasm. There is nothing that feels that good. Choosing to experience that with one person and only that one person... is really beautiful. And likewise, choosing to give that beautiful feeling to them too. And them saying you're the only one they want to give them that beautiful feeling... That's really amazing. Sex is a really important way of showing love. And I don't think I overrate sex. Maybe I just have better sex than you... haha

One of the (many, many) reasons why I love my shipmate (and I love her to bits - if I were prone to that idea, I'd actually be very much at risk of considering her "The One", as we're such a perfect match :heart: even been joking about that if we were to be into that kinda thing, which we thankfully both aren't, it'd be not too unlikely that we'd end up married, lol) is that we're both secure about how much we mean to each other, and that no amount of loving (including love-making) with others stands a chance to ruin that.

Again, I'm glad you're happy in your relationship. I'm glad you love your partner and I'm glad she love you. I'm glad you two are secure in your relationship and your feelings for each other.

I would like to point out though, that being monogamous doesn't mean you're not secure about your feelings for each other. It means you've chosen to experience life with this one person and not have sex with anyone else. It mean you've chosen to not have the emotional connection of sex with other people. That doesn't mean you're insecure... it's just a choice.

 

[InsaneMystic]

Romantic love is very different from friendship love. If I'm going to have sex with someone, I want to romantically love them.

As someone (don't remember who it was) pointed out earlier, that may be they key difference and the core of it... not how we see sex, but how we define love. I thoroughly dislike romancey stuff (to put it mildly), and very actively try to keep it out of my social life, platonic or otherwise. (Before I went on my anti-dep meds, romance was a constant danger in my contact to pretty much every woman, and it ruined my social life for over a decade. I'm so glad I managed to leave that time of my life behind!) I see no difference between close friends and shipmates, other than just saying "you're my best friend, whom I see as my shipmate, because being with you is my home base, and I feel safe and comfy coming home to you again and again". I really don't see how one could, or why one would want to, have anything more than this.

Maybe I just have better sex than you... haha

Well obviously. You, my dear, are a woman. *envies you to no end* ::female::
(And even if it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I'm not really kidding. I'd give a lot to be a woman.)

I would like to point out though, that being monogamous doesn't mean you're not secure about your feelings for each other. It means you've chosen to experience life with this one person and not have sex with anyone else. It mean you've chosen to not have the emotional connection of sex with other people. That doesn't mean you're insecure... it's just a choice.

I freely admit that this is something I can't see, then. I put a lot of emotional (and spiritual, and philosophical 😛) importance on independence and freedom. 🙂

 

[Tara Maclay]

Why do we always have to apply labels such as "right" and "wrong"? Doesn't everyone have to decide for themselves what feels right for them, and leave the rest of humanity make their own choices? The only "wrong" thing is to assume that there is such a thing as "wrong". It's all relative.

I didn't mean they're completely 100% wrong, I'm sorry. I meant they're wrong for me. But I don't think all right and wrong things are relative. There are some things that are completely wrong. Murder in cold blood being an example. And I'm not comparing this topic to that. I'm just saying it's not time. It's not all relative.