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Uncle Rory

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I am wondering if anyone out there has any opinions on who or what inspired Joss Whedon and the writers of Buffy and Angel. I have my theories which I will share.

1. 60's gothic soap opera - Dark Shadows. (even some ot the strange camera angles used in Buffy or Angel remind me of Dark Shadows.) This was probably the first Vampire in love with a mortal story as far as television is concerned.

2. Stephen King's Danse Macabre - This is a must read for fans of horror. King breaks down the hows, whos and whys of the genre, explains why we watch it and gives a history lesson on all things horror and sci-fi back to the days of radio. Particularly interesting is the section on "Grim's Fairy tales" Hansel and Gretel. Also he talks about "Dark Shadows" and how they brilliantly did the soap opera trick of maturing a new-born baby to toddler in 2 months, to childhood in 4, to kindergarten before the end of the season and by the next season the kid is in college. (Sounds just like Connor to me(

3. Kolchak - the night Stalker.
Cheesy little program about a detective who specializes in the strange and otherworldly.

4. Shakespeare - Which Shakespearian play deals with killing the father and sleeping with the mother? It escapes me now - either Macbeth or Othello - (or maybe both)

Any other opinions?

Uncle Rory
 
Love your user name, by the way.

I think Xena was a big influence. I honestly don't think Buffy could have been greenlit if it weren't for the huge cult following of that other, earlier 90s evil-fighting warrior woman.

I also think horror films in general were a big influence. I mean, Buffy is pretty much designed to turn typical horror stereotypes and staples on their respective heads. From the beginning, in the scene in which Darla defies the innocent schoolgirl type by morphing into the monster and attacking the slightly badass boy, Buffy keeps us on our toes by toying with our expectations. The bulk of those expectations come straight from the tropes of the horror genre.
 
N
NightBird
Total agreement from me.
I
InsaneMystic
agreed on Xena... you could even argue that the idea behind OMWF was "let's do 'Bitter Suite', just better!" ;)
Uncle Rory said:
I am wondering if anyone out there has any opinions on who or what inspired Joss Whedon and the writers of Buffy and Angel. I have my theories which I will share.

1. 60's gothic soap opera - Dark Shadows. (even some ot the strange camera angles used in Buffy or Angel remind me of Dark Shadows.) This was probably the first Vampire in love with a mortal story as far as television is concerned.

2. Stephen King's Danse Macabre - This is a must read for fans of horror. King breaks down the hows, whos and whys of the genre, explains why we watch it and gives a history lesson on all things horror and sci-fi back to the days of radio. Particularly interesting is the section on "Grim's Fairy tales" Hansel and Gretel. Also he talks about "Dark Shadows" and how they brilliantly did the soap opera trick of maturing a new-born baby to toddler in 2 months, to childhood in 4, to kindergarten before the end of the season and by the next season the kid is in college. (Sounds just like Connor to me(

3. Kolchak - the night Stalker.
Cheesy little program about a detective who specializes in the strange and otherworldly.

4. Shakespeare - Which Shakespearian play deals with killing the father and sleeping with the mother? It escapes me now - either Macbeth or Othello - (or maybe both)

Any other opinions?

Uncle Rory
Click to expand...

The Shakespearian play I think you are referring to isn't actually a Shakespearian play - I believe you mean Oedipus Rex by Sophocles.
 
You are right, the original was Oedipus Rex by Sophocles. I was sure however that this theme was also used by Shakespeare. Looked it up on the internet - here's what I found. The Shakespearian play with the Oedipal theme is Hamlet.

In his The Interpretation of Dreams (1900), Freud's analysis starts from the premise that "the play is built up on Hamlet's hesitations over fulfilling the task of revenge that is assigned to him; but its text offers no reasons or motives for these hesitations". After reviewing various literary theories, Freud concludes that Hamlet has an "Oedipal desire for his mother and the subsequent guilt preventing him from murdering the man [Claudius] who has done what he unconsciously wanted to do". (kill the father)

Connor on the other hand didn't have this moral dilema. Dropped Angel to the bottom of the sea in season 3 and slept with Cordy (basically his surrogate mother in season 4)

Anyone have any other theories on possible influences???

Uncle Rory
 
L
Lindsey McDonald
Lol, Freud could find an Oedipal theme in Harry Potter! But, I haven't read Hamlet, so I wouldn't really know about that.
Lindsey McDonald agrees: Lol, Freud could find an Oedipal theme in Harry Potter!
Click to expand...
Let him have one look at Snape and see him fire without half trying. 😛

In case anyone hasn't read parts 6&7 and intends to still do so, I'll spoiler it...
Hated his dad, adored his mother, loved Harry's mum and killed Harry's mentor.

(And yes I know it's off topic, but I couldn't resist. 😉 )
 
Uncle Rory made the comment that Kolchak: the night stalker looks like it might have influenced Joss in creating Buffy. I agree, not only because I am a big fan of Kolchak, but one of the standard operating procedures in Kolchak was for him to research the ancient ways and legends of how to defeat the monster or demon, which seems to parallel monster/demon hunting in the Buffyverse.
 
Uncle Rory said:
I am wondering if anyone out there has any opinions on who or what inspired Joss Whedon and the writers of Buffy and Angel. I have my theories which I will share.

1. 60's gothic soap opera - Dark Shadows. (even some ot the strange camera angles used in Buffy or Angel remind me of Dark Shadows.) This was probably the first Vampire in love with a mortal story as far as television is concerned.

2. Stephen King's Danse Macabre - This is a must read for fans of horror. King breaks down the hows, whos and whys of the genre, explains why we watch it and gives a history lesson on all things horror and sci-fi back to the days of radio. Particularly interesting is the section on "Grim's Fairy tales" Hansel and Gretel. Also he talks about "Dark Shadows" and how they brilliantly did the soap opera trick of maturing a new-born baby to toddler in 2 months, to childhood in 4, to kindergarten before the end of the season and by the next season the kid is in college. (Sounds just like Connor to me(

3. Kolchak - the night Stalker.
Cheesy little program about a detective who specializes in the strange and otherworldly.

4. Shakespeare - Which Shakespearian play deals with killing the father and sleeping with the mother? It escapes me now - either Macbeth or Othello - (or maybe both)

Any other opinions?

Uncle Rory
Click to expand...

Great ideas, Uncle Rory. I can def see the similarities.

The play you're referring too is Hamlet, btw 🙂
but the original story comes from the Greek play Oedipus Rex.

Angel could have been inspired by a 90s Canadian TV show called Forever Knight. The similarites between the stories are quite striking. The show is also about a vampire turned pentient, trying to repay society for his past sins. The intro goes like this:

He was brought across in 1228, preyed on humans for their blood.

Now, he wants to be mortal again.

...to repay society for his sins...
...to emerge from his world of darkness...
...from his endless...
...Forever Knight.​

So, yeah...pretty much Angel all the way. The shows pretty cool, quite campy, but entertaining.
 
To be honest I think it comes from a lot of things... xena definetly... comic books... and a few films but I think a lot of people over look sci fi books, I am almost a hundred percent sure Joss Whedon reads the same sci fi books I do cos there are so many similarites between raymond e fesit, robin hobb/megan lindholm books to mention a few
 
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