Oz is the sweetest thing.

[Chosen Enemy]

I really don't see your point. I don't think being a warewolf is something he can control. He got bitten, by accident. That doesn't make him bad, that makes him unlucky.

He did cheated Willow, but he sacraficed their relathionship for lives of God knows how many people.

I'm not talking about the "spiritual" Oz, what he feels, says, he acts like. I'm talking about what he is rather than who he is. Oz is a good person. But he his a werewolf, and werewolf are evil. Doesn't matter that Oz can't control the werewolf in him, he is half a bad being. So he's not 100% good. It's like, Angel has a soul, he is good. But the fact that he's a evil being, a vampire, physically evil. Doesn't matter what he does or feels, the vampire is what he is. Can't change that. He can't control that either.

What I'm saying is, while Oz is very sweet, he is not physically a good being.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I'm not talking about the "spiritual" Oz, what he feels, says, he acts like. I'm talking about what he is rather than who he is. Oz is a good person. But he his a werewolf, and werewolf are evil. Doesn't matter that Oz can't control the werewolf in him, he is half a bad being. So he's not 100% good. It's like, Angel has a soul, he is good. But the fact that he's a evil being, a vampire, physically evil. Doesn't matter what he does or feels, the vampire is what he is. Can't change that. He can't control that either.

What I'm saying is, while Oz is very sweet, he is not physically a good being.

I still don't agree. He has a soul. And when you have a soul, you have a choice to be good. He's only a warevolf 3 days in a month, and the rest of the time, he's human. And while he's human, I don't think he would hurt anyone. He never seemed like he would.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I still don't agree. He has a soul. And when you have a soul, you have a choice to be good. He's only a warevolf 3 days in a month, and the rest of the time, he's human. And while he's human, I don't think he would hurt anyone. He never seemed like he would.

But we still have to keep in mind that in both cases, they have no choice but being part evil. That doesn't go away. It's inside of them, it's what they are. Doesn't matter if they control it or not, or want it or not.

Veruca said it well, that the werewolf is what he is. All the time. It's inside him, even if it's only 3 days (nights) a month. The only difference is, and it's the thing that I don't agree with Veruca about, is that he needs to embrace his wolf side, and being unleashed. That I don't agree with Veruca on. He might have choose to be the good guy, as opposed to Veruca, and he can act like a good guy while he's not a wolf. BUT it is part of him, the evil part of him. His other persona, if you'd like.

 

[Mumrik]

I'm not talking about the "spiritual" Oz, what he feels, says, he acts like. I'm talking about what he is rather than who he is. Oz is a good person. But he his a werewolf, and werewolf are evil. Doesn't matter that Oz can't control the werewolf in him, he is half a bad being. So he's not 100% good. It's like, Angel has a soul, he is good. But the fact that he's a evil being, a vampire, physically evil. Doesn't matter what he does or feels, the vampire is what he is. Can't change that. He can't control that either.

What I'm saying is, while Oz is very sweet, he is not physically a good being.

With the difference being that a vampire is physically undead. When a human transforms into a vampire, they die, then the demon reawakens with the human's memories and can do whatever it wants with these. But the person they were ceases to exist. Angel is an exception because he had special circumstances.

A werewolf on the other hand is merely diseased. He or she still is the same person, still has a conscience and can choose what to do with their condition and that is key. You can go Oz's route and ensure that there's the least possible risk of endangering others (of course, this is not a foolproof method, as was shown in the show a couple of times, but that's another point) or, you can go Veruca's route, embrace the wolf and go wild with that side, which makes her a danger, much like vampires.

My point is ... With werewolves, there is much more grey as opposed to the black and white view you have with vampires and you have to go case by case than just saying "werewolves are bad" in general.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

With the difference being that a vampire is physically undead. When a human transforms into a vampire, they die, then the demon reawakens with the human's memories and can do whatever it wants with these. But the person they were ceases to exist. Angel is an exception because he had special circumstances.

A werewolf on the other hand is merely diseased. He or she still is the same person, still has a conscience and can choose what to do with their condition and that is key. You can go Oz's route and ensure that there's the least possible risk of endangering others (of course, this is not a foolproof method, as was shown in the show a couple of times, but that's another point) or, you can go Veruca's route, embrace the wolf and go wild with that side, which makes her a danger, much like vampires.

My point is ... With werewolves, there is much more grey as opposed to the black and white view you have with vampires and you have to go case by case than just saying "werewolves are bad" in general.

I don't want to repeat myself, you could just read again what I said.
I don't see it as black and white. I think that once there is another side posseses you or whatever, you can't be completely yourself. If you're a werewolf, and that's one half of you while the other half is human, you can't be a pure person anymore. Something "diseases" you. Not your fault, but that's what you are. It's about what you are as much as it's about who you are. Oz has an evil side in him, that he can't control. Yes, as a human he's sweet and nice. But that's only one half of what he is.

About Angel, I was talking about Angel only, not vampires in general.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I don't want to repeat myself, you could just read again what I said.
I don't see it as black and white. I think that once there is another side posseses you or whatever, you can't be completely yourself. If you're a werewolf, and that's one half of you while the other half is human, you can't be a pure person anymore. Something "diseases" you. Not your fault, but that's what you are. It's about what you are as much as it's about who you are. Oz has an evil side in him, that he can't control. Yes, as a human he's sweet and nice. But that's only one half of what he is.

About Angel, I was talking about Angel only, not vampires in general.

But I don't think it's like that with warevolfs. Vampires, they're dead. They're evil. They don't have a soul. But warevolf, he's still a human. He knows what's right or wrong. Like when he smelled Willow on Tara, when he started to change, he said to her 'run'.. he knew what's going to happen, and real Oz, human Oz, wanted to save her. Or in Fear, Itself when he started to turn into a warevolf, he isolated, he concentrated to not to become a warevolf so he can't hurt anyone. He slept with Veruca, he cheated on a person he loves the most to save people.. I don't think person who is half evil, or possessed with evil would do.

 

[Mumrik]

I meant the "you" in my last sentence as a general "you", I should have made myself clearer. I'm sorry. I was merely offering another point of view, not demanding you change yours to mine or trying to put words in your mouth. 😉

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Again, Oz is a good man. But we can't ignore the werewolf in him, and say he's completely good as long as he's part demon. I don't think it has anything to do with being alive or dead, nor if he's in control of it or not.

My point is, while you have 2 halves, you can't ignore one of them and see only one half and say that the whole him is pure good. He's part evil, not his fault, not his intentions, not who he is, but it's what he is.

 

[GrrArghx]

I don't even think werewolves can be considered evil. They're wild animals and wild animals kill all the time. That's like saying a lion or a tiger is evil because it'll more than likely attack you if you get too close.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I don't think warevolves are demons.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I don't think warevolves are demons.

See, I think they are. But that's arguable, since it's never been mentioned. Could be a yes, could be a no. They're considered something supernatural, that a Slayer slays. If they were just animals, a Slayer wouldn't be on their tail (no pun intended... or maybe is!), trying to kill them.

I don't even think werewolves can be considered evil. They're wild animals and wild animals kill all the time. That's like saying a lion or a tiger is evil because it'll more than likely attack you if you get too close.

And since I believe they are sort of a demon, demons are evil (there can be demons like Angel, Spike, etc though, so it's not solid, but to make a point....). If they were regular animals, they couldn't be considered evil.

But that's my just opinion, guys. We can agree to disagree, because I don't want to repeat myself again and again.

 

[Kean]

I kinda adore Oz. For reals.

One of my very favourite lines from S8 was when Oz was talking about his new lady love Bay and when asked who she was he replied "Sh...she's the rest of me".

I mean, COME ON! There is no way that is not the sweetest, most Oz thing you have ever heard.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I kinda adore Oz. For reals.

One of my very favourite lines from S8 was when Oz was talking about his new lady love Bay and when asked who she was he replied "Sh...she's the rest of me".

I mean, COME ON! There is no way that is not the sweetest, most Oz thing you have ever heard.

What was Willow's reaction to it? Oh man, I wish he had said that about Willow. 🙁

 

[brinkster130]

I loved Oz. I thought he was a great character; he was funny, sweet, understanding...I could go on and on. 🙂

Yes, he did have his flaws; but all of the characters do. Oz, was always very cautious of his werwolf side and tried always tried to insure that he wouldn't be around people when he was a wolf. He even learned how to control the wolf in him...I think that speaks volumes about his character.

 

[SoBlind]

mm yea I don't agree with Chosen Enemy either. I understand what she's saying about Oz technically not being 100% good in his nature but that doesn't make him bad. So for me personally, that doesn't make a good argument against him. And the thing with his cheating, TECHNICALLY he did it to protect people. And he didn't sleep with Veruca (at least not as a human...who knows what kinky stuff they got up to as wolfes 😉 ) - but he had no control over that. Fact is that Willow always came first with him. Even if one assumes that he only got Veruca into the cage to safe HER (which I'm sure was part of the reason), as soon as she threatened Willow he didn't hesitate to kill her.
He forgave Willow for cheating, he never pressured her, he was always supportive even when he was worried - like with Willow's magic, and may I add that this was the problem that broke up Willow and Tara later on!
I thought Oz was perfect. And as Willow put it...a couple days every month, us girls aren't exactly fun either lol