Passion vs. Seeing Red

[Lethe]

I noticed that these two episodes had a lot in common. Both featured couples that were once together, had split apart, and then were reunited only moments ago in a very romantic matter. ("Can you just be kissing me now?" and Jenny and Giles setting up their date) Both include other characters that are experiencing hard times (Angelus and Buffy, and just about every other character in Seeing Red). Both eps end tragically with one lover dying, and the other going into revenge mode. (Willow didn't get do to much in that episode, Giles was stopped by Buffy).

My question:

Which episode do you like more?

Also, sorry if this isn't the right forum. I wasn't 100% sure on it.

 

[eponinethen]

I like Seeing Red more.. Willow and Tara is my favourite couple and that made it wonderful (in the beginning) and sad, of course, in the end.. And I love sad episodes. So although I feel really really bad after watching Seeing Red, I like that one more than Passion.

 

[Xander]

Oh no, dont make me decide. Oh um cant, no, um Seeing Red. Tillowness a plenty, moody Xander, sad ending but Alyson was great. But then the rape scene, oh dunno!

 

[Lethe]

Oh no, dont make me decide. Oh um cant, no, um Seeing Red. Tillowness a plenty, moody Xander, sad ending but Alyson was great. But then the rape scene, oh dunno!

Hard, huh? MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!...Ahem...

I go with Seeing Red, because it gave me chills. And that I had Passion spoiled for me....I suppose that'd be a factor.

 

[Faith]

For me there is no decision that needs to be made. For me Passion wins hands down. It has always been one of my favourite episodes, Angelus at his best, that music building up as Giles walks up the stairs gets me everytime. And when Angel is watching Willow and Buffy through the window as she slides down and her head just rests on her knees.

Its so heartwrenching. I did like Seeing Red but the earlier seasons have been my fave.

 

[Kevin]

For me there is no decision that needs to be made. For me Passion wins hands down. It has always been one of my favourite episodes, Angelus at his best, that music building up as Giles walks up the stairs gets me everytime. And when Angel is watching Willow and Buffy through the window as she slides down and her head just rests on her knees.

Its so heartwrenching. I did like Seeing Red but the earlier seasons have been my fave.

Yeah, I have to agree here - looking back at it, I think Passion was one class act of an episode... The vo (Voice Over) work by David Boreanaz at the beginning is classic stuff ("Like a cancer, it takes ahold... With passion, our rooms would be empty and danke"). One of the few times they let Anthony Stewart Head really act... Willow's break down on the phone. It's all there.

Seeing Red is an interesting episode. The death of Tara was so completely obviously a plot point to tip Willow over the edge. Which is fair enough. Right at the end of the episode? Well, yeah, keep the viewers hooked. It did, however, still feel slightly rushed. I wanted to see Willow's reaction more as a person, than a raging homocidal wicca bitca.

The rape scene - rarely mentioned by fans - was 'well done'. Dressing Buffy in those clothes, in the shower, vulnerable... Spike, confused. Again, they needed something to 'trigger' Spike's desire to have his soul restored next season.. This time, I was kinda on board. Not because of the rape thing - but the fact our lovely producers finally stood up and went "Look. Spike fans. The guy has no soul. He wants to rape". It was a defining moment for me.

 

[Jenny]

Oh my what a choice. I went with Seeing Red but I just found them to be two totally different episodes.

Passions had me all tense because we saw Jenny C killed by Angelus..and we were just waiting - hearts tense - for Giles to discover her murdered body. It was truly heartbreaking.

Seeing Red - it was all about shock factor. Buffy was shot. No wait, Tara was shot. No, they both were shot. And the way they filmed it...kudos to the DoP and all of the team on that one. The last thing I was expecting was to see Willow in her clean, white, innocent shirt get covered in blood.

Both of these are on my top fave eppys of all time for sure.

 

[4.O.cious Miss]

Re:

I voted "Seeing Red" but I could've gone either way.

 

[eponinethen]

Oh no, dont make me decide. Oh um cant, no, um Seeing Red. Tillowness a plenty, moody Xander, sad ending but Alyson was great. But then the rape scene, oh dunno!

Oh, you're right, I hate the rape scene.. Almost can't watch it..

(But then I love things that make me feel really bad.. (I'm weird..))

 

[Faith]

I wanted to see Willow's reaction more as a person, than a raging homocidal wicca bitca.

The way I see it, its her way of copying with the death. Showing that everyone is different. Some people go the anger route and smash things, some do the additctive stuff like drugs, drink etc, Willow she did both.

I know that a lot of heavy stuff happened during Seeing Red, and when watching it I did cry when Tara was killed, but it actually took me a minute to remember what happened in this episode when I came into this thread. Probably because it didn't have the same effect on me as Passion.

 

[Lilah]

I went with Passion, I loved all 42 minutes of it, with Seeing Red there was just moments with The Trio which just bothered me so my vote goes to Passion for being a constant classical episode throughout.

 

[SlayerThe]

Passion to me, is far better.

Although I have always loved the earlier seasons compared to the latter, because in my opinion, this is where we saw the growth of the characters and the true acting abilities of the cast. They seemed so rushed in Season 6 and 7 and not up to optimal performance.

But Passion has all the right things to make it such a classic BtVS episode.

Seeing Red to me was just a plot device. Kill Tara, Willow go bad (In the words of Cave Slayer). Then Spike tries to rape Buffy (A lot of people are referring to this a rape scene but its not because he only attempted, he didn't suceed. Remember our little Buffy is a lot stronger than him, not to mention a better fighter, more agile, ect. But thats too far off topic). It was just a culmination of events to lead to Season 7.

Plus there were plenty of other ways to make Willow evil. Not to mention I hated the Evil Willow thing.

 

[Jill_Valentine]

I'd like to second the hate of the Dark!Willow plotline, it was stupid, stupid, stupid and dealt with in a hamfisted manner. The death of Tara was well done, and shocking, but Passion is far and away a better episode than Seeing Red.

To digress a little, death in the Buffyverse was forever divided into two groups: Pre-The Body and Post-The Body. Every death after that episode is diminished because it has that standard to live up to. Leaving Dawn with the body of her surrogate parent felt like it was trying to emulate the earlier episode, and some of the woozy camera work around Xander at the door felt like it was.. a rip off, rather than a progression from The Body. Basically, I know that the focus was Willow, but as characters, both Tara and Dawn were badly short changed by the death arc. Seeing Red, as Original Slayer so perfectly put it, was just a plot device, and having 45 minutes of set up for the next episode isn't good TV.

 

[SlayerThe]

I'd like to second the hate of the Dark!Willow plotline, it was stupid, stupid, stupid and dealt with in a hamfisted manner. The death of Tara was well done, and shocking, but Passion is far and away a better episode than Seeing Red.

To digress a little, death in the Buffyverse was forever divided into two groups: Pre-The Body and Post-The Body. Every death after that episode is diminished because it has that to live up to, in a sense. Leaving Dawn with the body of her surrogate parent felt like it was trying to emulate the earlier episode, and some of the woozy camera work around Xander at the door felt like it was.. a rip off, rather than a progression from The Body. Basically, I know that the focus was Willow, but as characters, both Tara and Dawn were badly short changed by the death arc. Seeing Red, as Original Slayer so perfectly put it, was just a plot device, and having 45 minutes of set up for the next episode isn't good TV.

After all our Buffy and Faith debates, I find it amazing that we actually agree on something. Reading your post I almost crapped a brick!

And I agree with you as well, the Body was an amazing episode that outshines the other deaths post this episode. Good points.

 

[Xander]

Then Spike tries to rape Buffy (A lot of people are referring to this a rape scene but its not because he only attempted, he didn't suceed.

"Rape" has many meanings, one being "Abusive or improper treatment; violation:" and she was damn well violated. I would also say Spike raped Willow in The Initiative, just not sexually. (the actual pre-impotency scariness)

 

[slayerpower]

I would have to say Passion. It's my favorite season two episode and my second favorite episode of all time. From the voice-over, to the set-up in Giles' apartment, to the sad end, it is a masterpiece.

 

[ChosenOne]

Passion and Seeing Red are both GREAT eps. But Passion wins hands down. Passion has a feeling that i don't think has ever been seen on Buffy again. With Angel narrating everything fitted together. the acting was better than normal (and the phone call secen with angel watching willow and buffy was one of the best if not the best) The music in Passion just blew me away and what a story the emotion drama and heartache. You feel so sorry for Giles and when he breaks down in Buffy's arms. Now don't tell me that's not what Television was invented for.

 

[Lethe]

Passion and Seeing Red are both GREAT eps. But Passion wins hands down. Passion has a feeling that i don't think has ever been seen on Buffy again. With Angel narrating everything fitted together. the acting was better than normal (and the phone call secen with angel watching willow and buffy was one of the best if not the best) The music in Passion just blew me away and what a story the emotion drama and heartache. You feel so sorry for Giles and when he breaks down in Buffy's arms. Now don't tell me that's not what Television was invented for.

The music - the Remembering Jenny piece you mean? I loved that one.

 

[stormwolfe]

for me passion is the best but i think that it has something to do with the time in my life that it was aired. i am about the same ages as the characters and i always understood a lot of what they went through as teenagers. once they got older, the understanding drifted as i went in different direction to all of the characters. i love willow and tara. tara is one of my favourite chat=racters. But I will have to say that Jenny's death is something that in some way impacted. i knew it was coming, but i rmeember exactly where i was when i watched the episoed, i can only take an educated guess as to where i was when i first saw 'seeing red'.
As silly as it sounds Passion got my vote because in some way I don't rteally understand as i have never really lost anyone very close to me, it impacted on my life, made me feel sader than i felt when tara died.

 

[Rayne]

Seeing Red. It was an amazing episode. It opened up such a huge can of worms that I still feel the shock each time I see it. I think it brought out more reality in each and every character than I'd seen in sometime...and I finally really started to relate to them in that season...I saw a lot of really challenging acting in that eppi. I loved it. No question.