Peace Out

[VisionGirl]

Pretty much the only thing I have to say is....LILAH!!!!! 😀

I do love the whole fight/exchange with the Keeper in the Spider Demon dimension (that whole world is cool):
HIGH PRIEST: What is it you think you fight for, dead thing? Valor? What you call justice? Your friends are dead... most likely. Or so you believe, so it's not for them you fight.
ANGEL: I'm trying to save my world.
HIGH PRIEST: Your world?! A world that doesn't care for you? Doesn't want you.
ANGEL: It needs me.
HIGH PRIEST: So your Powers That Be tell you, and maybe they're right, but it's not why you're here.
ANGEL: Ok, bugsy, you want to tell me what I'm fighting for?
HIGH PRIEST: Him.
ANGEL: Him?
HIGH PRIEST: The boy. The woman you've already lost. The boy is what you're fighting for. But you're going to fail. You're going to lose him, too.
HIGH PRIEST: So much effort, always struggling, trying to make things right for the boy, for Connor, but it's never enough. Why do you bother?
ANGEL: I can see you never had kids.
HIGH PRIEST: The boy should not even exist. He was only a device to bring forth the blessed she"”a means to an end.
ANGEL: Yeah, well, people get born for all sorts of reasons.
HIGH PRIEST: He will never love you.
ANGEL: It doesn't matter.

Really sums up the entire Connor/Angel relationship. Connor doesn't recognize that the only person who loves him unconditionally is the one he hates the most & blames for everything wrong in his life. He searches for family everywhere else: with Holtz, with Cordy, with Jasmine, all the while it's there in front of him the entire time.

 

[SlayerOfVampyrs]

Y'know, I JUST finished watching season 4 like, last night. Well, rewatching it, but this is only the second time I've seen it, and you are completely right. I'm not an adult Connor fan for this, and several other reasons. He talks about how Angel backstabbed him and such, but in the end, it was always the other way around. "Whenever I get a girl, you have to swoop in and take her." No, Connor, Cordy was Angel's girl, if anyone's, all the way.

How stupidly blind the kid was always bothered me to no end. He saw Jasmine's true face, and he still loved her unconditionally and killed for her. "What did you do to those people?" "I ate them." "Cool." I mean, really? They ended up just turning him into a monster that couldn't deal AT ALL, and that bothered me. I understand that he grew up in a hell dimension with a psychopath for a father, I understand that he felt alone in the world, but come on. They never did a thing to redeem his character in the fourth season. The fifth, the only reason he was redeemed is because he had his past changed. He was an incredibly weak willed individual, unable to let go of anything, even the man who, in the end, it was proven to him LIED to him his entire life (Holtz.) In the words of Angel, "Get over it."

 

[VisionGirl]

Well, I don't want anybody to misinterpret my post in thinking that I hate Connor. I don't. In this current rewatch I feel more sympathy toward him than I have in the past. Yes he annoys me (& sex with Cordy is gross), but I think his attitudes & actions are actually understandable. Holtz raised him in a hell dimension, and passed on all his rage, distrust, & hate to him. He grew up hating his real father. That's not going to change overnight. I'm about to post on the Home thread, but I'll post it here: Angel's decision to erase everyone's memories re: Connor & place him in a real family is understandable. It's the only way that Connor has a shot at a happy life. Whether it works or not is debatable: it seems to, but we just don't get enough of Connor in s5 to know. And I haven't read the IDW comics, so I don't really know what Connor's character development is like there.