Plot holes, inaccuracies and mistakes!

T

The Arcane

Scooby
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
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Before i start this i want to point out that i LOVED season seven of Buffy. I'm not one of those who thinks the show had jumped the shark by that point or someone who thinks the show should have ended with season five. I loved both season six and seven very much.

However, it would be a lie if i didn't say that i thought that season seven was guilty of being the season with the most unanswered questions and logic gaps in it's storyline. There were some gaping problems in the plot that were never addressed properly, in my opinion.

Truthfully, i think the central story of the First and the potential slayers was simply too big for the twenty two episodes the season had. The story needed a lot more time than the season allowed, especially when you add in all the other stuff going on, like Spike and his regained soul, Robin Wood and Buffy's job at the school. Basically Joss and the other writers tried to fit in too much and in doing so left out a lot of details that should have been added.

So this thread is about those plot holes and logic gaps. What details didn't make sense to you. What parts of the story weren't given enough attention. What could have been made clearer and how?
 
Robin Wood......i really didn't like this character.
I felt his placing was poor.
He didnt have enough timeto develop, i personally feel this character would have benefitted more in season 5, with the whole, 'Buffy wants to know about the Slayers', storyline.
In season 7, it felt forced.

Though, i'm with you on the Season 6 and 7 being good.
 
The Watcher said:
Before i start this i want to point out that i LOVED season seven of Buffy. I'm not one of those who thinks the show had jumped the shark by that point or someone who thinks the show should have ended with season five. I loved both season six and seven very much.
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Thank you for saying this 😀 When I read the title I was a bit "Oh not again", 'cause I know I was one of the ones naming all the faults in season 7 in the last thread like this. However, I have changed my mind completely about season 7, and now love it oh so much.. But yup, agree with you, there are things that doesn't work.

I love the whole First Evil/potentials idea, but agree that it was a lot of info and stuff at once. It was all so huge. Maybe it's got to do with the fact that season 6 was so personal.. The villains were a few nerds from Sunnydale High, and then one of our own Scoobies. Season 5 on the other hand really had to do with the 'verse and everything, with Glory as a hell god, and the key to dimensions and so on. Season 6 had a lot less to do with all of that... And in season 7, everything is there, it's got to do with the whole history of slayers and good/evil.. It's everything, and I love it.. But I agree that it's a bit much at once..

Also agree about Robin, just one thing too many. He could've been interesting.. but just became annoying with the whole Spike thing... Which brings me to the next thing that didn't work "“ the Spike thing.. I love Spike and I'm ok with the soul thing (even though it was a bit annoying), but with him going around siring.. I don't know, just a pointless storyline in my opinion.. could've done something better with that time..
 
Season 6 is my favourite season. Season 7 not so much. This to me is what is wrong with season 7.

1. The first isn't very bright. He couldn't walk around with Buffy's face, luring potentials into traps? He does very little in the way of screwing with the good guys.

2. Nobody cares about the potentials. You don't give a toss for someone who has had 5 minutes of screen time. Putting their lives in peril doesn't matter to the viewer. We are interested in the Scoobies. Why not screw with them?

3. Season 6 had such a sense of loss. Joss and the other writers must have been aware of the negative feelings toward Buffy after season 6. Why didn't they make some sort of effort to bring back the feeling of camaradarie between the core? The friendships that were formed from the beginning were an integral part of (a) the show (b) Buffy as a character.

4. They ignored so many issues that were brought up in season 6. Season 6 was in part to show that the group were now adults. Why not deal with their issues like adults in season 7(instead of ignoring them, and making new issues to deal with).

5. Spike. People say Spike was overused or some nonsense to that effect. Are you kidding? Spike was underused. His storyline in season 7 could have been awesome. Instead we get a silly trigger and murder that means nothing as its without free will.

6. The leadership and its cost thing was just dumb.
 
I kind of agree with Psychotic Jackass, but try this. Try to apply those seeming flaws to Season 7 before the episode Showtime. I don't think they work as well.

To me there's almost 2 Season 7s. There's the one up until Showtime which was saturated with amazing potential (npi), then there was whatever that second half was, spinning off in multiple directions, forgetting the questions asked, and the character development suggested in the first.

And I have to tip the hat to The Watcher who convinced me Showtime was the point where you can draw the line. I'm starting to suspect it was right around there Joss had to go off to work on other projects, leaving Marti in charge.
 
T
The Arcane
That was one of the first threads i got involved in after joining here, if i remember correctly. Very good debate, that! :)
I think the Faith/Wood relationship was not developed enough and they were an odd pairing. I do not think their relationship should have been shown in the final season.
 
nerd4hire said:
I kind of agree with Psychotic Jackass, but try this. Try to apply those seeming flaws to Season 7 before the episode Showtime. I don't think they work as well.

To me there's almost 2 Season 7s. There's the one up until Showtime which was saturated with amazing potential (npi), then there was what ever that second half was, spinning off in multiple directions, forgetting the questions asked, and the character development suggested in the first.

And I have to tip the hat to The Watcher who convinced me Showtime was the point where you can draw the line. I'm starting to suspect it was right around there Joss had to go off to work on other projects, leaving Marti in charge.
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I have to agree with this opinion, and not just because i was partly responsible for N4H forming it in the first place, lol! 🙂

The two parter of Bring on the Night and Showtime was the point in the season where so much began to go wrong, and i'm not necessarily talking about the fact that this is where the potentials began to arrive, although that certainly is an issue.

The main problem, however, is that this is where all the excellent plotting and developments of the first nine episodes began to fall apart. So much that was possible was ignored because of attempting to do too much in the last ten or twelve episodes available to them.

My biggest issue was with the whole "potential rebellion/making Buffy doubt herself" deal. It was the final season of the entire series and for the last five episodes all we saw was Buffy steadily drowning in self doubt and self pity. Quite honestly that had been done already the year before. Okay, we got confident and strong Buffy back for End of Days and Chosen but only after a couple of wasted episodes and an inspiring (and, might i add, unforgettable) speech from Spike to Buffy. You might argue that this was the intention of the First, to throw Buffy off her game. But ultimately if that is the best plan that the supreme force of evil can come up with then he needs to start rethinking his game a little.

The entire second half of the season was full of wasted opportunities and wasted time. Episodes like First Date, Potential and The Killer in Me had good intentions but were poorly executed and distracted too much from the more important season arc. How many of us were totally agreeing with Giles at the end of First Date with his utter disbelief that nobody was taking the threat of the First seriously?

I think, for me i'm only disappointed simply because it's so obvious that season seven could have been great. Maybe the best season ever. Yet too many minor but important details were forgotten in favour of trying to shoehorn unimportant and uninteresting episode plots into the more interesting central arc.
 
To me it was unbelievable that anyone dared to be in Sunnydale at all, being the slayer or not.. and just staying there in the house.. geeze..

But yeah, I do agree that the problems showed up in the second half of the season, but I still can't helping loving the last episodes on the show.. Sure it was fun in the beginning of season 7 'cause it was more "regular" episodes with smaller things to deal with but.. as we're finding out more and more about The First (and Caleb and everything), it's just weird how they can focus so much on, well.. anything else at all.. I get that every single episode couldn't be all about the huge apocalyptic problems but... still... Makes me sort of not like those eps that much, especially when they're trying to fit the Wood-hates-Spike thing and the Spik-siring-people thing into all of that..
Which is what I like about the last episodes, after Showtime I guess... it's serious. Sure everything doesn't work with the rest of the show, which is ashame, I wish they would've made it work better.. But most parts of it are really really good in my opinion.. And they work in a different way.. To me they work very well as an ending, of something so huge..
 
T
The Arcane
Thanks for the edit, Epo! Very much appreciated! :)
I loved season 7!, I thought the storyline of the Potentials was a really good Idea and I really liked it!

I have a question for The Watcher you mentioned earlier that Potential
had good intentions but were poorly executed and distracted too much from the more important season arc
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I thought that episode was very true to the storyline of the season.

And I am not a spike fan, so I feel that his storyline could have been minimised so they could dedicate more time to developing the potentials storylines, The whole thing about Spike being a killer again could have been good if it had gone on for longer, and in the background. - But that's just me, because I preferred the Other storylines that were going on.
 
BEG, my point regarding Potential, along with the other two episodes i mentioned at the same time, was that the episodes were far too "standalone" for that point of the season. Whilst the episode did deal with an aspect of the arc, that of discovering a new potential in the form of Amanda, that was pretty much it. There were no major new revelations or advances in regard to the bigger picture.

In all three cases (Potential, Killer in Me and First Date) the main events of the episodes could have easily have been done as an "A" story whilst more important events regarding the larger arc were seen as a "B" story. At least then the flow of the season wouldn't have seen so disrupted midway through.

I'd argue that Spike's role in the show, by the start of year seven, was as the male lead and that he was such a major part of Buffy's life that there was no way he was ever going to have a minimal role. Love him or hate him, Spike was central to the show at that time and was always going to feature heavily.
 
Oh right I see what you where saying about Potential.

The Spike thing I know people won't agree with me, but I would have loved his role to be reduced in order to give more time to developed the other storylines.
 
The Watcher said:
Truthfully, i think the central story of the First and the potential slayers was simply too big for the twenty two episodes the season had. The story needed a lot more time than the season allowed, especially when you add in all the other stuff going on, like Spike and his regained soul, Robin Wood and Buffy's job at the school. Basically Joss and the other writers tried to fit in too much and in doing so left out a lot of details that should have been added.
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I agree that the story was too big for just one season, however I think if Joss had have expanded on the characters of many of the potentials then it could have been slightly fixed. With the possible exception of Amanda, none of the girls had personality! We often saw their opinions in Rona and Kennedy, however we knew little about their past.

I think there should have been some sort of feature where every episode we focused on one potential and had scenes from their past (Kind of like in 'Lost' if you watch it)...These scenes would have taken up time, however I think it would have been more necessary than Wood's character or episodes like Killer In Me.
 
There are puzzles in Season 7. I also agree that the story could have been extended over more than one season. Robin Wood's character was forced? Maybe, but I also thought that the Potentials presented too many characters crowding into the picture in too short a time-we didn't get to know them well except for, say, Amanda and Kennedy.

The story of The First was there from the very beginning, but the early part of the Season with the new Sunnydale High School stories had a retrospective, nostalgic feel to it, episodes like "Lessons", "Help", and "Him". I don't object to any of those, I personally liked the nostalgia, but it did leave less time for the main arc.

There was the whole Spike having a soul and possessed by the First at the same time. Yes, yes, there's an explanation for it all but it was downright confusing that Spike starts killing humans again at just the point where he returns to Sunnydale with his soul. And with the chip still in his head.

In the final battle with The First's army, what's up with The First appearing as Buffy to taunt Buffy about her "mortal wound??" She certainly doesn't look wounded as she's jumping from building to building to overtake the bus. And those Turok-Han übervampires down in the Hellmouth certainly didn't look as powerful as the first one that came out from the seal. Again, rushed rushed.
 
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