Political Correctness

[BuffyElevated]

To those of you talking about how you hate how "everyone is so PC lol," I sincerely hope no one ever calls you a slur in a derogatory manner.

It wasn't funny when my paternal uncle called my Jewish mother the k-word before his family disowned her. It wasn't funny when my friend had to transfer out of school after she came out because she was constantly referred to as the f-word, only to be met by similar abuse when she returned. It's not funny watching my friends cry because people call them gendered insults and it's certainly not funny when their boyfriends use them as a method of verbal abuse. These words MEAN something - they're tools meant to marginalize people and they stick with you because there's absolutely nothing you can do about them.

I understand that context is key and you can call me a member of the PC Police as much as you want, but I'll tell you right now that if I hear a straight man using gendered insults, a white person using racial slurs, a straight person using the f-word (and I don't mean ****), or anyone doing anything of that nature, I will inevitably lose respect for them.

I don't think anyone here is talking about bashing someone because they feel like it. Of course anyone would have a right to be pissed if someone was using derogatory terms just for the hell of it.
I see what you're saying, and I understand it. My sister has two biracial children and I nearly ripped my sister-in-law's head off once for calling them a word that rhymes with "piglets". But there's a distinct difference between someone who is so full of hate that they refuse to change how they address people than someone who simply doesn't know that something is offensive.

 

[prophecygrrl]

I don't think anyone here is talking about bashing someone because they feel like it. Of course anyone would have a right to be pissed if someone was using derogatory terms just for the hell of it.
I see what you're saying, and I understand it. My sister has two biracial children and I nearly ripped my sister-in-law's head off once for calling them a word that rhymes with "piglets". But there's a distinct difference between someone who is so full of hate that they refuse to change how they address people than someone who simply doesn't know that something is offensive.

The difference is very subtle though, and the same harm is still being done in both cases.

Also, I often find that when people complain about having to be politically correct, they often criticize the people who are being offended in the first place. Accusations of "oversensitivity" or "paranoia" or "humorlessness", etc. and I think that's unfair. If we are to say that some "political incorrectness" may just be the result of simple ignorance, then the blame should go where it belongs- to the person saying the offensive thing in the first place. if I say something careless, for example, then I've screwed up. The proper response is for me to apologize and try my best not to do it again. But when most people's initial response to criticism is to mock and target the people being offended, that's a really glaring problem and it shows exactly why being socially responsible is necessary.

 

[BuffyElevated]

The difference is very subtle though, and the same harm is still being done in both cases.

Also, I often find that when people complain about having to be politically correct, they often criticize the people who are being offended in the first place. Accusations of "oversensitivity" or "paranoia" or "humorlessness", etc. and I think that's unfair. If we are to say that some "political incorrectness" may just be the result of simple ignorance, then the blame should go where it belongs- to the person saying the offensive thing in the first place. if I say something careless, for example, then I've screwed up. The proper response is for me to apologize and try my best not to do it again. But when most people's initial response to criticism is to mock and target the people being offended, that's a really glaring problem and it shows exactly why being socially responsible is necessary.

I see what you're saying, but I disagree to a point... I think it depends on the offense. For example, if someone gets offended because I say "black person" instead of "African American" I would definitely think it was a case of hypersensitivity. But if someone says the n word because they were raised around a bunch of Klan members or whatever, then of course they should apologize and try to realize why what they said was offensive.

 

[zobothehobo]

I just want to point out my issues with the "African American"/"black person" thing. As I said in the black history month thread a while back the term race can and is defined differently by different people, in different situations, and different places. "Black person" describes the person and defines race by the color of your skin. "African American" describes the person and defines race by ethnicity and heritage. In my opinion, both should be socially acceptable because they refer to different definitions of the word "race."

 

[Willow My Love]

The most bothersome thing to me, is the thought that minorities and majorities can't get along, or that since I'm white, I feel more powerful than someone who isn't. That's insane.

Check this. I'm proud that I'm white. Not because I'm better in any way, but just because I was born this way. But I can't go around showing "white pride". Because d-bags decided it meant something else. I can't be proud to be white, just because I'm in a "majority." That's always bothered me, and I've never been able to understand it.

People that tell me I'm treating them differently because they're X minority are idiots. Perhaps I'm treating you differently simply because you are treating me differently. Same goes for the, "Your ancestors induced slavery!" No. My ancestors did not. My ancestors were working in the Black Forrest in Germany until WWI. Then we came here. And a very small portion of my ancestry participated in the Trail of Tears. Please, tell me how my family had slaves in America when we weren't IN America!

My two cents. Vented. I'm leaving.

 

[zobothehobo]

Willow My Love agrees: What about people from Haiti? They're literally not African Americans. Or a white person from South Africa that gains citizenship? Are they not literally African Americans as well?

That's always irritated me to no end!!

 

[Doppelgang]

Check this. I'm proud that I'm white. Not because I'm better in any way, but just because I was born this way. But I can't go around showing "white pride". Because d-bags decided it meant something else. I can't be proud to be white, just because I'm in a "majority." That's always bothered me, and I've never been able to understand it.

The problem is, because of the recent history of white people between around 1700 up to WW2 and a bit beyond, (and I'm a white english person myself) we get burdened with the consequences of that, even though we personally have nothing to do with it. I'm thinking here of colonialism of European countries like Britain and France and for America there was the taking of Native American land and the Slavery of African Americans and the white supremacists.

But there's loads of other ways to be proud of your history and identity without getting tangled up in that story, and I think thats what some people are doing now, and thats probably what bothers us because we keep getting associated with these things. My way of approaching things is to just try and treat people purely on an individual basis, I try not to group and categorise people before I've spoke to them. Because the reality is that we are all individuals, and all group identities, although important for locating your historical roots should never dictate how you think about certain people, for we should figure out what we think about people for ourselves.

 

[arabella]

Please read: White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack by Peggy McIntosh.

Google it.
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[Kean]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgaOK74HqiA[/ame]

There is a lot of really great thoughts in this vid but listen to what Kimmel says about White Privilege around 2:00.

As for the the issue of history I am firmly of the belief that we have to remember and acknowledge all of history: the beautiful and the ugly. Every day of my life I'm reminded about how my country was colonised. I'm reminded of what was taken from us and the destruction it has had on my culture. But at the same time I have to remember that being Irish means that I am not only a victim of Imperialism but an agent of it too. That Irish people helped colonise the world, that Irish people were slave owners. I'd rather not have to think of that aspect of my history because quite frankly I find it appalling, especially when we had first hand experience of its terror. But it is there and it is real and it doesn't do any good to turn a blind eye on it. We have to know who we were and make peace with, we have to acknowledge our histories for what they are, no matter how uncomfortable, so we can move forward.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Getting us away from the white privilege thing a little bit, I want to share a story with y'all...
I was raised in a very small farm town in Missouri. Our town only has 3200 people in it, and our claim to fame is that we are the nation's largest producer of soybeans. LOL In my town, the population is about 80% white, 15% black, and 5% everything else. Diversity in my hometown does not exist, and most of the people there are very racist (even though they will tell you they're not).
I grew up listening to and laughing at off-color jokes and hearing derogatory terms my whole life from my extended family. It was just part of life, and we didn't blink an eye at hearing my uncle telling jokes that made fun of blacks/Hispanics/Asians/etc. My parents weren't nearly as bad about it, but they weren't as open-minded as I would have liked them to be, either. My parents used to tell us that we were to treat noone any differently, because we're all people and no one is better than anyone else. However, they did tell us they didn't want us to date outside of our race because "God created different races for a reason".
It wasn't til I started to grow up and got into high school that I started to realize how wrong my family's views were. When I left home and went to college, it was like a veil had been lifted. I don't know when exactly it happened, and I suspect I'd known in within myself all along, but my family (as much as I love them) are almost white supremecists, with how they act. It's sad, too, 'cause my sister has two children whose fathers are black, and some of my family members do make a difference toward them (and we make it a point not to go around them much because of this).
Growing up, I was teased a lot because I have very thin, squinty eyes. One of my very best friends growing up calling me something that rhymes with "sink" because he said when I smiled I looked like a Chinese person. I never realized how offensive that term is until my early adult years, which is sad. But I'm glad I did, so if my friend ever tries to call me that again, I will tell him it's not cool.
Anyway I wanted to share this because I said before in one of my posts that sometimes it's a matter of people not being educated in the right ways. Sometimes terms we may not think are derogatory actually are, but because of our culture we just don't understand. There are a lot of very intelligent people in my hometown. I just get sad sometimes when I go there because even though a lot of them are book-smart, their common sense is sadly lacking.

 

[arabella]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgaOK74HqiA

Loved! Apparently you are the last person that I karma'd or I'd karma you. I think that is a helpful video. We are simply not mindful of our privilege. It takes effort and empathy to understand.
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[prophecygrrl]

Can I just say that I'm really glad we're talking about white privilege? It was something I was afraid to bring up, just cause the concept of privilege is not always taken so well. 🙂 I can't count how many times I've been accused of "hating white people" for talking about white privilege, LOL.

 

[arabella]

I think the idea of privilege is more important to examine than the basic idea of outright oppression. Privilege is more insidious in it's harm. It is hard to see. It is easy to overlook. I'm not promoting "white guilt" by any means, but again, genuine HUMAN empathy. Racism, Sexism, Classism, homophobia are all rooted in a lack of empathy. I don't think that it is a liberal, anti-capitalist thing at all to expect people to just take pause and really examine how our actions and words are impacted by privilege and to honestly expect people to just be more empathic. Kinder.
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[Willow My Love]

Until I was 8 years old I didn't know there was any kind of difference in races. My best friend was a little black girl that lived down the street named Kira. I really didn't see that there was a difference until someone pointed out to me that we were different because of our skin color. I didn't understand how that worked then, and I don't understand it now. I feel like society as a whole has grown up a little more. We're putting aside differences more, and I think we should be able to bury the whole, "I'm better because of my skin color," BS. No one is better than anyone else. For any reason.

It really doesn't make sense to me that something as trivial as the color of one's skin should matter in how they're treated, or what can be said. There are derogatory terms for white people as well, but no one acknowledges them most of the time. The MINUTE I say (I wouldn't. It's an example.) something that someone may deem derogatory, I'm a racist. But I get called a name that rhymes with slacker all the time by people. I really don't appreciate it.

 

[zobothehobo]

I'm going to share with you guys something about white privilege and the idea that privilege is invisible to those who have it.

My heritage is 50% Greek, 25% Italian, and 25% Norwegian. In the summer, my skin gets dark enough so that I look like I'm from the middle east. In the winter, my skin has a general olive tone to it but if someone looked at me they would say "white" without thought. It is INSANE how much better I'm treated in general in the winter. Which is a shame because I do more stuff in the summer. But like going to restaurants... waiters are generally nicer to me in the winter. And strangers. And people at the bus station. And the bus drivers. And the movie ticket people... people are nicer to me in the winter months when I'm pale.

I was out with my friends this past summer and we were sitting outside at a restaurant enjoying the warm summer breeze. This family seated across the patio kept staring at us. When they were leaving the father went to my table... the mother was telling him not do but he said he "had to." He came and yelled at me for not wearing a head covering and said I was trying to "fit in with a group of people hated to destroy them from the inside" but I would "NEVER be successful!" He said "there's not a damn thing you Muslims can do about it! The US of A is the best country in the world and you will NEVER bring us down!" Then he marched away all proud and macho looking. The patio was full. Not a single person came over and said he acted out or was wrong. Even the three waiters that had stopped to look (one of them was for my table). Our waiter didn't acknowledge it at all by saying anything... but after that he, was slightly ruder to me. Add that on top of the generally being ruder to me because of the color of my skin.

I used to have two groups of friends. Both had a main triangle and both triangles included me. One triangle was me, my friend Rachel, and my friend Alisha. Alisha is black. Becky (who is Asian) is also in that friend group and if we were to expand this triangle to a quadrilateral, she would be the fourth point. They understood and saw the difference in treatment I got from winter to summer when I pointed it out to them. My other friend group is me, Liv, and Kyle. Both of them are very white. When I pointed it out to them, they said it was all in my head.

White privilege does exist. And it IS pretty invisible to white people. As someone who's on both sides of the fence depending on what time of year it is... I don't think it's something that can or will change any time soon. And that comes with the whole point that privilege is invisible to those who have it.

 

[Ianigsy]

I'm only 12.5% Norwegian- the brooding Nordic temperament is a bugger, isn't it?

Earlier today I walked past a poster for the Miss Black Yorkshire Beauty Pageant- I would guess that the point of the occasion is to encourage young black women to feel good about their appearance when they'd struggle in a beauty contest up against white girls. It's a weird one, though, because it's still judging women on their appearance and encouraging them to base their self-esteem on that, rather than (as Martin Luther King said) on the content of their character.

I'm also (I would say) very much a product of white European society- I'm passionate about European literature and music, and while I'm fascinated by ancient civilisations from all over the world, it's who I am. I was born and grew up in what was basically a white industrial town, and although one of my best friends at school was Bangladeshi, until very recently the only place you saw non-white faces was in a Chinese or Indian takeaway or a doctor's surgery. There are an awful lot of middle-class white kids who think it's cool to pick up the mannerisms of black American urban youth and they just end up looking scruffy and acting badly because they think it's the thing to do.

 

[arabella]

Zobo...this is slightly off topic, but you have the most dramatic experiences!


But, (on topic) when I was teaching Psych of Cultural Differences, I noticed how many of our white students would say at first that they didn't get what the big deal was and they didn't think that in this age that it was still a significant issue. They usually came around to understand and empathize when we started talking about the idea of privilege. It's an eye opener for most people who think that we don't use lenses to view others through. We do. Its human and natural. Doesn't make it right, though. Once you know, I think you are responsible to be more aware.
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[Skanky Vamp]

I have stopped worrying about being political correct and following the rules of polite society and I have become much happier for it. Granted, by saying what I did above it in no means implies I lack manners... but for instance, when I was taking my new 2011 Dodge Charger R/T out for a testdrive Saturday I said in regards to the 5.7-Liter V8 HEMI engine that it has, that it would "f-ing kill me on gas"

Cultural differences dont make a difference until we allow them to make a difference. We should all be free enough to not give a... darn. I do think generationally and geographically it lessens.

 

[arabella]

I disagree, Sco. The fabric of our society is built on ideas rooted in placing different value on differences.

It is important that you say that while you don't "give a...darn," you are still admittedly a respectful person.

At the end of the day what does it matter? It doesn't. All that matters on an individual level is how you treat people and that you are aware...and Sco, you obviously are.
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[Skanky Vamp]

The fabric of our society is built on ideas rooted in placing different value on differences.

Yeah, and.. damn you for bringing my hippy tree-hugging side out, don't you think the fabric of our society is fundamentally flawed? If it is rooted in that, and when you turn on the news you see one instance or another where placing different values on differences leading to social or political unrest? The very fabric of our society and every other society is screaming out loud and clear, and I do believe it is partly (or largely) in regards to those very ideas. All we are taught to see is differences; how often, through school, to college, through various media technologies are we really taught to see similarities? And of course, when we see differences we see them as being beneath us or above us, but we never seem them as being us.