Political Correctness

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Wow Zobo, what an experience! It reminds me of something that happened here in Tulsa right after 9/11: a Native American young woman got beaten up- she was mistaken for Middle Eastern. Can you believe those rednecks?! They can't even carry out their hate crime correctly!

OK, I know that characterizing those people as rednecks was in itself incredibly offensive on my part.
 
Wow Zobo, what an experience! It reminds me of something that happened here in Tulsa right after 9/11: a Native American young woman got beaten up- she was mistaken for Middle Eastern. Can you believe those rednecks?! They can't even carry out their hate crime correctly!

OK, I know that characterizing those people as rednecks was in itself incredibly offensive on my part.

Yeah, kinda is, especially since the term Redneck originated as a word to describe the Irish that were sold into slavery by the British and shipped to Barbados. Working in the field all day, their necks would get burned, hence Redneck.

Sorry, can never pass up a history lesson :blush:
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Kean.. you have angered me. We need to have a little chat, you and I. This is uncalled for.
Thanks for the history lesson, Kean!

Yes, Sco. Society and human nature are both flawed. We are cognitive misers. We generalize and stereotype by nature. Changing it means it can't be ignored. Differences and Similarities must be appreciated in effortful attempts to be better members of that which is flawed.
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Changing it means it can't be ignored.
How dare you put your filthy words in my mouth. Did anything in my post indicate that I condoned ignoring it? That was not my intent. Removing the power associated with differences was more what I was implying. As Kirkegaard says: when you label me, you negate me.
 
How dare you put your filthy words in my mouth. Did anything in my post indicate that I condoned ignoring it? That was not my intent. Removing the power associated with differences was more what I was implying. As Kirkegaard says: when you label me, you negate me.

Ha! My words are flithy, huh?. Sco, my dear, do you have a guilty conscience? I never said you thought we should ignore them...

Also, I am not for a homogeneous culture. Differences make us who we are. I'm not saying not to use labels or categories because your brain will do it without your permission...just be aware that you are and aware of the way it could impact your actions.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgaOK74HqiA
I'd rather not have to think of that aspect of my history because quite frankly I find it appalling, especially when we had first hand experience of its terror. But it is there and it is real and it doesn't do any good to turn a blind eye on it. We have to know who we were and make peace with, we have to acknowledge our histories for what they are, no matter how uncomfortable, so we can move forward.

"We" weren't here 100's of years ago, so I'm not sure who this "we" is you're referring to. Why identify with something long gone? My concern is that alot of people don't have a strong historical sense of identity with any particular group of people and they're treated as if they don't exist or they're made to feel isolated with no group to identify with. These are some of the people who are the biggest losers when we start talking about political correctness.
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
[No message]
Aye, differences do make us who we are- for good or bad. It's the appreciation of difference where we lack. Or the disparagement of difference that we have an abundance of. Either one.

Well said.
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"We" weren't here 100's of years ago, so I'm not sure who this "we" is you're referring to. Why identify with something long gone? My concern is that alot of people don't have a strong historical sense of identity with any particular group of people and they're treated as if they don't exist or they're made to feel isolated with no group to identify with. These are some of the people who are the biggest losers when we start talking about political correctness.

There is no present or future, only the past, happening over and over again, now.-Eugene O'Neill.

I didn't make a choice to identify with my country's history, I just always have. What I did choose is to cultivate that interest, study it in college, and I fully intend to make my career in that field. I won't make apologies for being interested in who I am. And I fully believe who I am has everything to do with where my country has come from.

Strong identification with one's history and culture may not be for everyone, but I am not doing anyone any harm in pursuing it.
 
Yeah, kinda is, especially since the term Redneck originated as a word to describe the Irish that were sold into slavery by the British and shipped to Barbados. Working in the field all day, their necks would get burned, hence Redneck.

Sorry, can never pass up a history lesson :blush:

I actually never knew that there were Irish slaves, interesting!

But my point is keeping that language (instead of deleting it, like I should have) is that we all have prejudices, no matter how enlightened or "colorblind" we are. I was raised in the suburbs of Chicago, moving here has been quite the experience for me, and 16 years later, there are still things that make me feel out of place or that I can't comprehend. But it is a well-known prejudice that if someone opens their mouth & speaks with a Southern (U.S.) accent, that their IQ drops (in the listeners' eyes of course). That is one prejudice of mine that I have had to face. I have lots of very intelligent, educated friends from the south! But it's hard when you're colored by particular experiences: at my 1st job in Oklahoma, during the OJ trial the principal of the school I worked at said (in the middle of a faculty meeting) "I don't care what they say, that n***** done did it". My jaw was on the floor. I thought "Well, welcome to Dixie!". [although that's not terribly accurate either, Oklahoma wasn't even a state during slavery or the Civil War]
 
I actually never knew that there were Irish slaves, interesting!

But my point is keeping that language (instead of deleting it, like I should have) is that we all have prejudices, no matter how enlightened or "colorblind" we are. I was raised in the suburbs of Chicago, moving here has been quite the experience for me, and 16 years later, there are still things that make me feel out of place or that I can't comprehend. But it is a well-known prejudice that if someone opens their mouth & speaks with a Southern (U.S.) accent, that their IQ drops (in the listeners' eyes of course). That is one prejudice of mine that I have had to face. I have lots of very intelligent, educated friends from the south! But it's hard when you're colored by particular experiences: at my 1st job in Oklahoma, during the OJ trial the principal of the school I worked at said (in the middle of a faculty meeting) "I don't care what they say, that n***** done did it". My jaw was on the floor. I thought "Well, welcome to Dixie!". [although that's not terribly accurate either, Oklahoma wasn't even a state during slavery or the Civil War]

The Irish slavery came just before African slavery began.

And you are so right on us all having prejudices, the key thing is that we recognise that and do our best to overcome it.
 
There is no present or future, only the past, happening over and over again, now.-Eugene O'Neill.

I didn't make a choice to identify with my country's history, I just always have. What I did choose is to cultivate that interest, study it in college, and I fully intend to make my career in that field. I won't make apologies for being interested in who I am. And I fully believe who I am has everything to do with where my country has come from.

Strong identification with one's history and culture may not be for everyone, but I am not doing anyone any harm in pursuing it.

Thats cool that you have a strong identification with your history and culture, for me in england I think the traditional cultures of the native peoples, e.g. the pagans, druids, and more recently the working class, middle class, upper class division seem to have all been assimilated now into the one identity that people from other countries think of as being typically british, which is why I don't like to identify with it.

If I was going to give a quote to represent more my point of view it would probably be something from eckhart tolle or buddhism, saying that all there is, is now. The teachings of eckhart tolle are all about letting go of the pain-body from your cultural history and learning to live in the moment, which for me is what I feel I need to do.
 
The teachings of eckhart tolle are all about letting go of the pain-body from your cultural history and learning to live in the moment, which for me is what I feel I need to do.

In my own way, that is exactly what I am trying to do too. However, I believe the reclamation of my culture: history, language, customs etc, is the way I can do that.

🙂
 
The Irish slavery came just before African slavery began.

And if it were not for the poor Irish, America would not be the great country it is... or, ya know, was.
 
Kean
Kean
A lot of poor immigrants went into making America what she is :)
Ianigsy
Ianigsy
There's good and bad in that- the American economy was built on successive waves of immigrants, each being prepared to undercut the last in order to get a foothold.
I'd agree with a lot of that- there are as many points of view on the historical relationship between Britain (and I use "Britain" deliberately- the Scottish influence in the north of Ireland is an important factor) and Ireland as there are people to hold them, and if there was a simple resolution which made everybody happy we'd have found it by now. Unfortunately I think it's one of those situations where attitudes need to change over the generations- a few years ago I could stand in the GPO in Dublin and recognise the courage of Pearse, Connolly and so on, even though I don't to my knowledge have an Irish gene in my body and my grandma would have been horrified that I could identify with people she would have thought of as Irish rebels.

I'm quietly proud of the fact that the town where I live has a large Catholic population precisely because in the 1840s we harboured Irish refugees who were thrown out of the next town up the valley and made to shelter under the bridge- and I have at least one friend who's descended from those refugees. And on the subject of prejudice, it didn't occur to me that one of the reasons why Irish people are stereotyped as being stupid is that for a couple of hundred years, the only Irish people most Englishmen encountered were itinerant labourers who took what work was going and may well not have had much of an education. English Irish jokes are awful- Irish Irish jokes, particularly in the hands of the masters like Hal Roach and Dave Allen- are something far more subtle and brilliant.
 
Kean
Kean
Nice post, although I'd disagree on the "Itinerant labourers" part, but we won't squabble ;) :)
But it is a well-known prejudice that if someone opens their mouth & speaks with a Southern (U.S.) accent, that their IQ drops (in the listeners' eyes of course). That is one prejudice of mine that I have had to face. I have lots of very intelligent, educated friends from the south! But it's hard when you're colored by particular experiences: at my 1st job in Oklahoma, during the OJ trial the principal of the school I worked at said (in the middle of a faculty meeting) "I don't care what they say, that n***** done did it". My jaw was on the floor. I thought "Well, welcome to Dixie!". [although that's not terribly accurate either, Oklahoma wasn't even a state during slavery or the Civil War]

I would like to say, on behalf of all of us Okies who actually pronounce the word "Nekkid" and say "y'all" that we are NOT all ignorant (and I'll delete out this next non "kosher" phrase). Although I will tell you that "warsh" (wash) "ain't" (isn't) and "down yonder" are not part of my vocabulary.

Racism in Oklahoma is a facinating subject. You look at the geography (and I'm assuming its like this in other places too), and even though there's no formal segregation anymore, people have segregated themselves to form these mini ethnic-centered communities throughout the state. You have towns that are "Black" towns, towns that are "White" towns, and towns that are "Indian" towns. And within the major cities (yes, we have a few) you have whole sections that are segregated like this. And there's really not alot of blending, except maybe Norman, which is a college town. There's still a LOT of animosity between different groups of people, and it's not uncommon for someone who is one race to have several friends of other races, yet still be "racist" towards the general population.

Take, for instance, my dad. He's a middle aged 1/2 White 1/2 Choctaw/Comanche man (more or less, bloodlines in our family are VERY muddled to say the least). He's got several friends across the color spectrum. Yet it's not uncommon for him to make slurs, jokes, etc, mostly against Black people. There was one incident where he and I were on my side of town (I live in a predominately Black area) and we stopped to get gas. We got lots of stares, cause here's this big ole middle aged Indian guy and he's got this pale young "White" lady with him. We get back in the car and he says "Geez, I can't wait to get home and away from these people. At least I blend in with all the Mexicans there (he lives in a predominately Mexican area, and yes I say Mexican instead of Latino/Hispanic, cause let's face it. It's still Oklahoma and Mexicans probably make up well over 90% of our Latino population). It kind of struck me as funny at the time, but it really points out how backwards our culture can still be. Me, I'm kinda used to the stares in my neck of the woods (especially when I'm with him, for some reason people always assume I'm a girlfriend instead of a daughter).

Another thing that happens quite often here is that people assume you are of a certain race. For example, my sister used to work in a very popular store. She's much darker than me, and most people assume she's Mexican instead of Native. She's been yelled at (in Spanish) several times because she "refuses" to speak Spanish and answers questions asked of her in Spanish with something similar to "I'm sorry, I don't speak Spanish." People have walked up to her and assumed that because she looks a certain way she must be Mexican like them, and that if she doesn't speak Spanish she's turning her back on her culture and discriminating against them. She's not the only person I know that this has happened to. Another friend of ours (again Native) was nearly kicked out of a Mexican restaurant because she wouldn't order her food in Spanish. The waiter wouldn't believe her when she said she wasn't Mexican, and became very upset with her for denying her "heritage."

Ok, so enough rambling (for now). I think people in general can learn a great deal from each other if we just give ourselves the chance. Assumptions do nothing for us. Each one of our cultures is varied and brilliant in it's own unique way, and that is something to be proud of. Above all else, I would say we CANNOT forget the past. Doing so puts us in jeopardy of forgetting the important lessons the past teaches us. But we also shouldn't dwell on the past. Atrocities happened all across the board, and in a lot of ways they are still happening, even in America today. We can't simply say "oh, well that happened 100 years ago so it's not relevant" because if we don't take a step back, examine past with an undiscriminating eye, and take the lessons it can teach us to heart, we are doomed to repeat it sooner or later.
 
But it is a well-known prejudice that if someone opens their mouth & speaks with a Southern (U.S.) accent, that their IQ drops (in the listeners' eyes of course). That is one prejudice of mine that I have had to face. I have lots of very intelligent, educated friends from the south! But it's hard when you're colored by particular experiences: at my 1st job in Oklahoma, during the OJ trial the principal of the school I worked at said (in the middle of a faculty meeting) "I don't care what they say, that n***** done did it". My jaw was on the floor. I thought "Well, welcome to Dixie!". [although that's not terribly accurate either, Oklahoma wasn't even a state during slavery or the Civil War]

As someone whose accent is so thick I've been guessed to be from either Texas, Alabama, Georgia, or Tennessee when I'm actually from Missouri, I've come across this stereotype several times. I do say y'all and "fixin' to" and stuff like that, but I assure you I'm far from ignorant. When I went to work as a camp counselor in NY back in 2001, a lot of the counselors from the NY/NJ area laughed at my accent and teased me a lot. I even got the nickname "Tex" from a couple, because they couldn't believe a Missourian's accent could be so thick.
And when I worked as a call center representative for AT&T, sometimes I'd put people on a silent hold, which meant I could still hear them but they couldn't hear me as I worked on their account, and I'd hear people laughing and mocking my accent in the background. I even had some old bastard from Michigan do it directly to me saying "You know they have these really great things now called shoes... Do Y'ALL have them down there in the backwoods?" I got so mad that I replied "Aw, shucks, we sure enough do, y'all! We got that runnin' water and 'lectricity in the house now, too!" He shut up really quick and never said anything else about it to me.
 
T
This Year's Girl
Lol! Great comeback! Sorry people have been mean to you about it. I think southern accents are really pretty!
My accent gets deeper every day, and honestly I love it. I love saying "y'all" and other "southern" terms. I have come across that streotype and it's very frusrtating. A good example of the accent and stereotypes for it is in The Bad Girls Club this season, there's a girl from Kentucky who has an accent. it's not THAT deep, it's really not but it is enough. The very first night in the house, the girls had an altrecation and one of them called Lauren (the girl from Kentucky) a redneck and kept screaming at her about being a redneck. also in last night's episode other girls in the house did some AWFUL imitations of Lauren's accent and I believe they made some farmer jokes and called her redneck more. It made me so mad because I take pride in my southern accent. Southen accents are beautiful and soothing.
 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/tragicdeath/20110215113932.jpg

White privilege, huh? We may be treated differently sometimes, but we're also shunned a LOT because people fear a lack of "diversity".
 
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BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
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B
Blondie Bear
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/tragicdeath/20110215113932.jpg

White privilege, huh? We may be treated differently sometimes, but we're also shunned a LOT because people fear a lack of "diversity".

That's true... But white people are also treated as "normal" where as other races are treated as "abnormal."
 
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