'Presence' of Spike (may contain spoilers)

[Tranquillity]

OK, i'll admit up front that i'm a rabid Spike fanatic. That being said, is it just me or is there a distinct 'presence' of Spike throughout season eight? i realise many of these have since been proven non-spike related but at the time we didn't know and, i think, we were supposed to make Spike connections. For example:

In #1 - Black boot, long black coat on floaty feet guy: on seeing it for the firt time my thoughts went straight to a certain white-haired vampire

still in #1 - Buffy says "and sex. Great Muppity Odin, I miss that sex". And who was the last person we saw Buffy having bucket loads of sex with? of course it could be someone else or just that she's got an itch that needs a scratch but still...

in #2 - the whole true love's kiss thing - instantly we start thinking of Spike and/or Angel

still in #2 - the headless man with the long coat who calls her 'my love'. Come on, we were supposed to jump to the (sure, wrong) conclusion that it was going to be Spike - that's why they left his head off.

in #3 - that picture. enough said.

Still in #3 - the specific absence of Spike in the memory boxes. It has to be a deliberate choice not to put him in those particular cubes. i speculate we may see more memory cubes later on...

in #4 - OK, not much in this one (unless you go for the completely whacked Satsu is really Spike theory.)

in #5 - Nikki Wood, the second slayer Spike killed appears in the slayer chain

in #6 - "I have no sodding idea" says Faith. A generic British-ism I know, but one frequently uttered by a certain English vampire.

in #7 - Willow asks " ...What are we supposed to do when they acctually get here?" Renee replies "Whatever we have to" then Dawn says "All's fair"
All's Fair is the title of an early Spike and Dru comic published by Dark Horse

also in #7 - Gigi asks Faith if she can 'bum' a fag just as Spike did in Dirty Girls

in #8 - "Try again Red" Buffy calls Roden "Red" just like Spike called Willow 'Red' for years.

to me it just seems too regular to be coincidence. Do others see these connections?

 

[white avenger]

joss has said. not hinted, but SAID, that we will be seeing both Angel and Spike in Season 8, though only sparingly. He has also said that Angel Season 6 will only be 12 issues or so (of course, that could change). That leaves hope, for me at least, that after that limited time, Spike can return permanently to where he really belongs, even if not as Buffy's lover. I know that I'm not the only one who loved the chemistry between the two characters. and they seemed to balance each other out perfectly. In the series, Spike always returned, and, even back before the chip, always wound up fighting on Buffy's side, whether against Angelus, Adam, Glory, or the First Evil. Spike simply BELONGS at Buffy's side. Anyplace else, he's only a guest star.

 

[alexa]

I totally disagree. Spike, and for that matter Angel, don't belong by Buffy's side. I can't stand that being their only purpose, ok sure maybe later if one of them suddenly happens to be human. But the vamp boys have so much character to explore to be limited to being Buffy's sidekick... it would be different if they were also just friends, but that could never be. Anyways, to each their own 😉 Cute picks Tranq.
That being said I can't wait for each of them to show up, should be awesome... probably in one of Joss' stand alones, I'd guess.

 

[Kean]

honestly? I think your reading whats on the page, not liking the lack of Spike and inserting him to make yourself feel better....It's not necessarily a bad thing, I'm fairly sure I do it with Angel but some of that stuff was REALLY scraping the barrell...Nikki Wood? maybe its because she was a past SLAYER that she was in it???

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

OK, i'll admit up front that i'm a rabid Spike fanatic. That being said, is it just me or is there a distinct 'presence' of Spike throughout season eight?

It's just you... 😉

i realise many of these have since been proven non-spike related but at the time we didn't know and, i think, we were supposed to make Spike connections.

That's a fairly long jump for most of these items. Maybe for someone who's inclined to think of Spike first no matter what the subject, but there were only two or three items on your list that I think actually were intended that way.

In #1 - Black boot, long black coat on floaty feet guy: on seeing it for the firt time my thoughts went straight to a certain white-haired vampire

This one was fairly obviously a deliberate misdirect. Of course, we never saw Spike levitate, that I know of, so unless one was unaware that Spike was actually back by this time, I'd think that possibility would have been discarded almost immediately.

still in #1 - Buffy says "and sex. Great Muppity Odin, I miss that sex". And who was the last person we saw Buffy having bucket loads of sex with? of course it could be someone else or just that she's got an itch that needs a scratch but still...

And before that, it was Riley. Apparently, Buffy likes sex fairly regularly, and it's been - what at this point - over a year? I'd say she does miss it. No wonder she's having naughty dreams.

in #2 - the whole true love's kiss thing - instantly we start thinking of Spike and/or Angel

That's the key right there - "Spike and/or Angel." But you also forget: Xander, who's had a thing for Buffy since before either of the "dead boys" came into the picture, and would certainly class as "passionately devoted"; and Willow, who, despite their occasional fallings-out, has been about as "passionately devoted" as you can get (and also likes girls.) There are all manner of 'shippers in fandom, and I think the phrasing here was designed to get them all thinking.

still in #2 - the headless man with the long coat who calls her 'my love'. Come on, we were supposed to jump to the (sure, wrong) conclusion that it was going to be Spike - that's why they left his head off.

in #3 - that picture. enough said.

These two were definitely deliberate - the one as a misdirect, the other to remind us - again - that Buffy 1) seriously needs to get laid, and 2) she... well, seriously needs to get laid. That's three of the men in her life that she's been having naughty dreams about (and if Giles shows up in another, you're gonna hear some seriously squicked-out shrieking from my end...) I notice Riley hasn't shown up in any of them, though. Yet.

Still in #3 - the specific absence of Spike in the memory boxes. It has to be a deliberate choice not to put him in those particular cubes. i speculate we may see more memory cubes later on...

So... things we see were intended to make us think of Spike; and things we don't see are intended to remind us of Spike?
Does this suggest anything to us?
:thought:

in #4 - OK, not much in this one (unless you go for the completely whacked Satsu is really Spike theory.)

No (and if I did, I'd keep it to myself. I like not giving my family an excuse to have me locked up...:rolleyes0)

in #5 - Nikki Wood, the second slayer Spike killed appears in the slayer chain

You don't think that was because she's, um, a Slayer? We haven't really seen that many of them, so I'd be surprised if they didn't use some familiar faces there.

in #6 - "I have no sodding idea" says Faith. A generic British-ism I know, but one frequently uttered by a certain English vampire.

in #7 - Willow asks " ...What are we supposed to do when they acctually get here?" Renee replies "Whatever we have to" then Dawn says "All's fair"
All's Fair is the title of an early Spike and Dru comic published by Dark Horse

It's a reference to "All's fair in love and war." These two are really stretching.

also in #7 - Gigi asks Faith if she can 'bum' a fag just as Spike did in Dirty Girls

in #8 - "Try again Red" Buffy calls Roden "Red" just like Spike called Willow 'Red' for years.

to me it just seems too regular to be coincidence. Do others see these connections?

The only connection I see is people trying too hard to see what isn't there (yet.) Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, y'know? It's not just the Spike thing, either, there's the "Faith is in love with Buffy" crowd, the "Giles is a turncoat" crowd, ad infinitum. I have to admit, I tried awfully hard to instigate a "Willow kissed Buffy" crowd, but that was mostly just to rag on some of the 'shippers (even though it was as likely a suggestion as any other at the time. And if Joss and Scott Allie hadn't put the final word in naming Satsu, I'd still suspect Willow.)

 

[nerd4hire]

Originally Posted by Tranquillity View Post
in #5 - Nikki Wood, the second slayer Spike killed appears in the slayer chain

You don't think that was because she's, um, a Slayer? We haven't really seen that many of them, so I'd be surprised if they didn't use some familiar faces there.

Actually we've seen all of them. They're from the Dark Horse TPB Tales of the Slayers. Nikki was also in it.

But on the point of RH's larger post...Agreed.

 

[Tranquillity]

ooh, such serious (and in some cases rude) rebuttles for what was a very light-hearted post - which is why i owned up to being 'rabid' in the first sentence. It was just a bit of sarcastic fun, but it obviously didn't translate well into text.

 

[Tranquillity]

I was thinking about this topic and the response it has illicited and while yes, it was written with my tongue firmly in my cheek I don’t believe I should be made out to be an idiot for it. Did I really think that an image of niki wood was a real indication of Spike rather than a link in the chain of slayers – no, of course not! (but it still doesn't change the fact that spike killed her) And yes, I am familiar with the saying ‘All’s fair in love and war’ (but it stil doesn't change the fact that it is the title of a spike and dru comic) All I’ve really done in the original post is to write a condensed reader’s response to the comics as a whole in which I highlight gentle reminders of spike that exist for me. There is nothing wrong with that.

Reader’s response is a critical literacy technique in which the reader determines the meaning of the text. The reader navigates the text not only by reading the words (and in this case, pictures), but also makes connections to their own experiences both personal and intertextual (other books, films, television, popular culture etc…) to make meaning of the text. So when I read Buffy season 8 particular words and pictures trigger connections to semiotic (eg: spikes black coat) and narrative codes (eg: the word “bollocks”) and then I form associations and connections to the text and things that have gone before. Because the Buffy comic is offshoot of the Buffy television series then, naturally, connections are formed between them. The wonderful thing about reader response is that it can be unique to the reader. There can be different readings for each and every different reader because we all have a unique personal repertoire of experiences with which we navigate the text. You might not agree with mine but it doesn’t mean that I am wrong or stupid. It just means I read the text slightly different to you, probably because of the characters we identify with. In analysing literature I teach my students to identify the gaps and silences that exist within the text. That is why the absence of spike in the memory cubes was so particularly interesting to me. As I examined the pictures I thought ‘spike is not here’ and thus the very fact that he is not there draws attention to his character – at least for me. I would recommend the book ‘The Aesthetics of Culture in Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ by Matthew Pateman. The last quarter of the book that examines ‘Restless’ and, among other things, it demonstrates very well the concept of connection building to make meaning, particularly within the text of Buffy the Vampire Slayer which has always self-referanced its own history.

 

[Joyce Summers]

Okay, I read the first post and I was gonna post a reply but now it seems surrealy light into what everyone else had replied, but I'm going to put it anyway.

I agree with some, not with others,and laughed at the funnier stretching-it ones. But anything that promotes Spike returnation is okidoke in my book, not matter how 'rabid' or obsessive. haha

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

I was thinking about this topic and the response it has illicited and while yes, it was written with my tongue firmly in my cheek I don't believe I should be made out to be an idiot for it.

1) There was nothing in your post to indicate it was intended that way,
2) Nothing in my post was intended to be rude or make you out an idiot, but you asked for people's opinions,
3) If you really believe that a story has no meaning beyond what the reader makes of it, then no story is anything other than the reader's opinion, which is always going to vary, so,
4) Why bother asking for others' opinions if they're just going to upset you?