Question about Fray

  • Thread starter Thread starter drusillaforever
  • Start date Start date
D

drusillaforever

Guest
Just got into Buffy and haven't seen all of the seasons yet. However I kinda sorta know what happens down the line, and have been reading Fray. Anyways they explain in Fray that there is a battle in the 21st century that ends the slayer line (or actually ends the active slayers). Is this the events at the end of season 7? Because i thought that there was a lot of slayers after season 7, no? Also since Fray is considered cannon, does this sort of restrict the possibilitiies of a spinoff or even that longshot chance at a buffy season 8? Because you can't have, for example, a Faith spinoff if nothing happens in between season 7 and Fray, right?

Also who would like to see a Fray telelvision series? I think it would be the best spinoff from the buffyverse that could happen. Joss could combine his love for otherworld type of future scifi (like in Firefly) with his vampire world.
 
No the battle at the end of season 7 is not the final battle, there are still allot of Slayers after season 7, The battle mentioned in Fray is about another battle late in the 21 Century, after which all the magic is gone, the Slayer line still exists, but there is no need for Watchers to track down and train the Slayer.

I think Fray would work so well as a T.V. Series, or a TV-Movie series, there are allot of possibilities for it 🙂
 
Whoa, I agree with you on most accounts BEG. HOWEVER, I don't think there is any evidence that the Slayer-line still exists in between the Final Battle and the moment Fray is called. I'm not saying it doesn't, but I think matters are simply too complicated and we have too little information to jump to any conclusions on this account.
 
Allycat said:
Whoa, I agree with you on most accounts BEG. HOWEVER, I don't think there is any evidence that the Slayer-line still exists in between the Final Battle and the moment Fray is called. I'm not saying it doesn't, but I think matters are simply too complicated and we have too little information to jump to any conclusions on this account.
Click to expand...

Actually I think he is right about that. In Fray Urkonn explained to Mel what had happened, that there was a huge battle in the 21st century that all of the evil had been destroyed. He said that the line did still exist in between that battle and Fray, but that they had never been called upon because of the lack of any demons or vamps.

Initially he said that this might be the possible reason why Melaka didn't remember anything in her dreams, but of course we later find out that her twin brother had adopted that skill. But there definitely was a line, just an inactive one.
 
Yeah Urkonn says something like the girls were still chosen but they were never called, as in called by there watcher to take up their duties, or that's the impression I got!
 
I never read Fray but I do agree with you that it would be the best spinoff Joss could do. I would love to see a Fray tv show or even a Fray movie. I think it would work better as a movie though.
 
I'm just gonna HAVE to read Fray! I've been meaning to for some time, and just been.....distracted by bright, shiny objects! I think it would make an interesting continuation/spin off of the 'verse, tho. How do we get Joss to do it?
 
we could always tie him to a chair and torture him until he agrees to do it...what where those 5 torture groups again?

LOL, but seriously, i've never read Fray, either, but i get the basics, and i think BEG has got a really good theory. i don't think it's possible to get rid of the slayer line completely, but with no demons around to fight, the slayers lived out a normal, healthy life...thus making it possible to only have a few slayers between that time and Fray's calling...because most of them would have lived and died like normal human beings.
 
I've got a theory about this that actually connests both Buffy and Angel storylines to Fray very neatly.

The battle in question is not the one at the end of season 7 of Buffy. That is made clear by the fact that Angel season 5 happens afterwards and there are still active slayers and magickal beings living in the earth realm. The apocalyptic battel that is mentioned in Fray is actually the end result of everything that the Senior Partners at Wolfram & Hart have been planning all these years. As Lindsey mentioned, this Apocalypse won't be anything like the "mini" apocalypses that Buffy and Angel have stopped before. This one will be the big one.

Now, i'm not sure how long into the future this will be but ultimately the lines will be drawn and Buffy, Angel, Spike and all their allies will come together to stop whatever it is that W&H are bringing about. They will discover that the only way to end what has begun is to seperate Earth from the demon dimensions, once and for all. This will save the world but will also remove all the magicks from it, in the process removing all demon life as well. Including, by default, Angel and Spike.

They will succeed in doing so but only at the sacrifice of one of the two ensouled vampires as the other one will finally fulfill the Shanshu Prophecy and become human, thus being saved from the demon culling. Going off what we know i would say that it will be Spike who gets to be human as Angel has signed away his chance at the prize, as seen in Not Fade Away.

A final effect of the end of the battle will be that all the surviving slayers, Buffy and Faith included, will return to being normal girls as the power that gives them their abilities will no longer be available to them. Thus ending the slayerline. At least until the time of Fray, by which time demons have found a way back to Earth and the slayerline is reactivated.

Obviously this is all speculation but it does tie everything together quite nicely.
 
that sounds quite cool, actually Watcher. it does bring everything together...and Spike gets the Shanshu!! i like it!!
 
Except one thing.... the slayer line never ended!!! It was specifically stated in Fray. We know that for a fact.... however, they are inactive slayers. Like someone else said, they did live their lives normally without ever knowing that they were the slayer (aside from their dreams). Remember that the watchers all go crazy during this time because they are essentially setting around waiting. That's why Urkonn had to tell Melaka about her being a slayer; her watcher had set himself on fire because watchers are all fanatics now.

But yeah, I'd at least like to see this time gap more explored in the comics, if no where else. Joss seems to like comics and there is little worry about getting cancelled in the format; he has complete creative freedom. I'd like to eventually learn about what happened between season 7 and fray (especially this megabattle).
 
drusillaforever said:
Except one thing.... the slayer line never ended!!! It was specifically stated in Fray. We know that for a fact.... however, they are inactive slayers. Like someone else said, they did live their lives normally without ever knowing that they were the slayer (aside from their dreams). Remember that the watchers all go crazy during this time because they are essentially setting around waiting. That's why Urkonn had to tell Melaka about her being a slayer; her watcher had set himself on fire because watchers are all fanatics now.
Click to expand...

I think that you might be over simplifying that a little. The slayerline effectively did end, because the world was without the magick neccessary to actually create a slayer. That doesn't mean that there weren't potential slayers though, same as there ever was, they just couldn't actually become the slayer.

Now, at whatever point that demonkind found it's way back to Earth, then so did the magick, and therefore the slayerline was reactivated. No doubt this happened before Fray and so no doubt there were at least a few slayers that never knew they actually had the power, or if they did then they would not know what it was all about.

As for the Watchers, again i don't think it was a simple as they all went crazy due to just sitting around and waiting. Sure, there were obviously some of the more fanatical ones that were obsessed with what they knew and what they feared would come around again, turning the Watchers into more of a cult than a council. However most probably got on with their lives, putting the past behind them. I wouldn't suggest that the "going nuts" thing was standard for all the Watchers though, just the obsessed minority.
 
I think that you might be over simplifying that a little. The slayer line effectively did end, because the world was without the magick necessary to actually create a slayer. That doesn't mean that there weren't potential slayers though, same as there ever was, they just couldn't actually become the slayer.
Click to expand...

Here is a quote from fray By Urkonn:
The Line continued - There were Girls with the Power. But they were never called, never trained
Click to expand...
So like DF and I said the line did continue and girls were activated as Slayers with all the perks, strength, healing, etc. But they were never called to act as the slayer.

I wouldn't suggest that the "going nuts" thing was standard for all the Watchers though, just the obsessed minority.[/
Click to expand...
And from Urkonn:
The council of Watchers fell to ruin Held together by fanatics and fools
Click to expand...
So you can say that all the watchers are insane because they are the only one who remained watchers, the sane ones went back to their normal life.
 
nerd4hire
nerd4hire
Good one Black Eye Guy
But, taken within the context of the whole of the original text, those words can mean something quite different.

Then, in the twenty-first century there was a battle. A Slayer, possibly with some mystical allies faced an apocalyptic army of demons. And when it was done, they were all gone. All demons, all magicks, banished from this dimension. It is not known if the Slayer lived, but the demons being gone, she was the last to be called. The line did continue, there were girls with the power, but they were never called, never trained. The Council of Watchers fell to ruin, held together only by fanatics and fools. Those that believed the demons would return. Centuries of useless, obsessive waiting. Makes a human go insane.
Click to expand...

Again, it's about how you take the wording and what it actually meant. Yes, there were girls who held the potential to be the slayer, however, as the text above very clearly states, ALL magicks were banished from this dimension. That, by definition, included the slayer power, which was demonic in nature anyway.

The slayerline may well have technically existed but it's the same as saying that television sets can exist in a world without electricity. They hold the potential but not the ability to use it.

As for the Watchers going crazy thing, well you just said the same thing i did, but in a different way. It wasn't that ALL of the Watchers Council went nuts, which was what Drusillaforever's post seemed to suggest, at least in the way it was written, it was just that it was only the crazy ones that even bothered to call themselves Watchers anymore. I just wanted to clarify the point for the sake of those who aren't familiar with Fray.
 
But it does say that
there were girls with the power
Click to expand...
, as in they were still being activated but never called into battle.
You cant really say that
Yes, there were girls who held the potential to be the slayer
Click to expand...
it does clearly say that the slayer is still being activated, not that they were potential slayers, they were actually slayers with the abilities of the slayer, the potentials do not hold the power, so if it was talking about the potentials it would not say they are 'with the power'.
 
I do see what you are getting at but all that your argument comes down to is a vaguely worded piece of dialogue that can be taken either way. Regardless of the various ways that particular sentence can be taken there is one undeniable fact in all of this.

All demons, all magicks, banished from this dimension.
Click to expand...

This is a simple fact of what happened after the Apocalypse. This dimension was cut off entirely from the demon dimensions and with that went all the magicks and demons. This HAS to include the power of the slayer, simply because that is exactly where the power comes from. Magicks and the essence of demons.

I'm not disputing that Joss could have clarified the matter a little better or maybe worded how he described the after effects to the slayerline a little bit more clearly but the outcome of no magicks is no slayers, at least not in the powered sense.

One way to look at it that would suit both sides of this debate is that eventually the demons did return here and at that point this realm was exposed to magicks again. At that point, whoever was the active slayer would again be able to draw on said power, even if she had no idea what she was and what she was capable of. That possibility allows for everything Urkonn stated to be true, even if not all at the same time.
 
Yeah...This discussion hurts my head, lol, I wish Joss will clear up some of these issues soon 🙂

But I do believe that somehow the slayer line managed to not get banished along with the other magicks, because of the way it is phrased in the comic, But that would just be the way I interpret the wording, and a little off topic, if every single magick was gotten rid of wouldn't that mean that Dawn would have ceased to be? Does it say in the comic how long ago the lurks came back, I cant remember them giving an exact figue or even a rough figure?
 
Well, as far as Dawn goes, to the best of my knowledge after the end of The Gift she is no longer connected to magick in anyway, just a regular girl, but since Dawn's fate was never established in the story of the final Apocalypse shown in Fray then it remains to be seen if she was in anyway altered by the removal of the magicks.

Also i'm pretty certain that no specific date was stated for when the demons came back, although that was no doubt intentional as it allows more freedom in the timeline for future stories set in both eras.

But yeah, it would be nice for Joss to clarify a few details in any future Fray projects he decides to do! 🙂
 
I think you all revealed somewhat of a contradiction. It does say that the slayer line existed... not just potentials but actual slayers (who just weren't called), and it also does say that all magick is banished.... sort of hard to reconcile that.
 
Well I had a problem from the beginning with the idea of the magick being banished... yet there are vampires ("lurks") around for at least as long as Fray can remember. How did they come back all of the sudden? How did this banishment happen?

The way I understood it is this: they were "banished" from this world, but that doesn't mean they were kept out. Vampires can't propagate without a prior vampire.

I think you all will agree that the vampires in Fray (at least all that I can remember) have a distinctively different look from the vampires we've seen in Angel or Buffy. So it stands to reason that these vampires turned post-apocalypse.

So really we know that at some point between apocalypse and fraytime, some vampires came back and started turning people. Then the legend of the lurks is formed as Fray knew them.

Also there is something different about the lurks vs. the vampires we know. Remember that they are described as "freaks" in Fray. To me they sounded like what we call junkies. They didn't do whatever they want, like they did in Buffy and in other vampire universes like Dracula or the Anne Rice series. They seemed to stay in the shadows and avoid attention. I wonder why this is?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom