Question about Fred

[eunsoma]

Okay in issues 5 and 9 we are given a glimpse of Fred and given the impression that both Fred and Illyria reside in the same body, however, later on, it's later cleared up to be Illyria all along, meaning Fred has been dead the whole time... I haven't been able to find all of the comics, so I'm wondering, am I missing something crucial??
Was Fred's soul really destroyed or not, and is the Fred we see in Angel ATF really Fred or just Illyria??

 

[Allycat]

There is nothing of her left inside the shell Illyria inhabits, that much has been made abundantly clear by Illyria. She still does have the memories and can change into her shape, but it's still Illyria, not Fred.

In the last issue of After the Fall, Angel did mention however, even though he was told her soul was destroyed, he still believes/hopes that she's in heaven (with Wesley). He interprets a warm wind as Cordelia affirming this thought, but we can't be sure.

So, that's the most definitive answer I can give you: Fred is not inside Illyria's body anymore, but in spite of what we were told, she might be in Heaven.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Not to be a jerk, but the warm wind wasn't affirming that Fred & Wes are together in heaven. The warm wind was Cordy telling Angel not to be a pessimist (believing that it's unlikely that they did get a happy ending). Angel says as much.

Personally I think they'll eventually be together once Wes' contract runs out, like others have said, there's no way brilliant Watcher-trained Wes would sign his soul away, there must be an expiration date on his contract or he never would have signed it. But all indications point to Fred having been in heaven since. "A Hole in the World".

Getting into the specifics a little since I'm not sure which issues you caught:

Nox, Drogan & Illyria established mid-S5 that Fred's soul was completely killed during Illyria's resurrection.

Illyria said some (most or all) of Fred's memories were absorbed into her as Fred died.

After the Fall: First Night - Illyria started her transformations into Fred as seen twice in the series, but now Spike believes they're involuntary.

Spike After the Fall has a psychic reading Illyria and saying she's faking the transformations.

After the Fall fleshes it out and reveals Illyria's been wanting to experience humanity and that's her reasons for trying to be Fred (Illyria even mentioned this in the end of S5).

She goes crazy wanting to end humanity to end the pain (like what Willow tried in Buffy S6). Spike & Wes' memories were downloaded into Illyria by Beta George showing her the true essence of Fred's humanity.

As of the final issue, Illyria's trying to sort everything out, while acting as a guardian over Gunn and probably all of the good guys.

 

[white avenger]

there's no way brilliant Watcher-trained Wes would sign his soul away, there must be an expiration date on his contract or he never would have signed it.

That's something that's bothered me about Wes' role in the whole "After The Fall" series. I can't remember any of Angel's people signinh any kind of contract when they came to Wolfram & Hart. Did I sleep through that scene, or was that just the only way that the writers could come up with to bring Wes back?

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Logically, he just signed like a 20-ish year employment contract (as many execs may do in real life), and W&H enforces it regardless of if the person's alive. That would be unlike Holland, Lindsey or Lilah who literally & willingly sold their souls for some power.

 

[eunsoma]

thanks guys, it's just with not being able to find all the comics, some things were still unclear for me 🙂

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Fred has been extinguished. She no longer exists, and she will never return unless someone shifts the timeline back to before she died. (And that's not going to happen.)

She is nothingness.

You may argue (I have, pointlessly) that that's not an appropriate fate for a storyteller to impose on one of his heroes. You may complain that while death may be a valid end for a hero, erasure from the universe is not.

But the story was not mine to tell, and so that's the way it goes.

 

[Lou]

Without Mr. Lynch here to help us, we may never actually get the whole gist.
But, MY take on it was this
*general disclaimer....my take on things usually is 90% imagination, 2% fact and the other 8% things that are going on around me at the time.

Illyria was going a bit wonky whether from the effects of the hell dimension or from her grief and trying to come to terms with Wesley's death....or both.

There was a part of her who really wished that Wesley had been missing HER instead of Fred at the end of NFA, like she was missing him. And in her head, she decided that if she was more Fred like, the people around her would see her differently than just an unfeeling "thing" that had killed their friend.

I don't think she was changing on purpose. More like when something triggered a memory of Fred's or reminded her of something in Fred's life, she kinda automatically morphed back into Fred so that she could feel it or experience it the way Fred would have. Thus, getting a TINY bit of the humanity feeling that she wished she had.

But, it was never Fred back. More like she just wanted to feel the "love" that Fred had felt.
Which is why when she went nutty, George sending her MORE memories of Fred helped her see that killing everyone was NOT what Fred would do and tripped her up.

Honestly, as much as I would want Fred back, I thought the way the story went made me feel for Illyria more. I kinda want to give her a big hug!
Of course, that's just my take, it could be far off the mark and makes no one else feel the warm fuzzies for Illyria!