Rant about Spike in season 7.

[Anya2012]

So I'm rewatching season 7 and the episode Bring On The Night. Spike is captured by the First. Why didn't he try kick the Turock Hans butt? He just lay there and took the beatings. He didn't even TRY.

IMO Spike has lost a bit of his edge when he fell in love with Buffy and got his soul.
He would have tried to kick the Turock Hans ass and help kill the Bringers. He just got taken so easily.

 

[zobothehobo]

Well in getting his soul he lost some of his edge. This is brought up in Get it Done. I mean, killing anything after you get a soul's got to be different than before. Like he said "yeah, I'm not really relishing the kill these days."

 

[prophecygrrl]

Well in getting his soul he lost some of his edge. This is brought up in Get it Done. I mean, killing anything after you get a soul's got to be different than before. Like he said "yeah, I'm not really relishing the kill these days."

I agree. I think the soul definitely shakes him up, but after Buffy yells at him about it in Get it Done (I think it's that episode?) you can definitely see a change in him. Especially after BtVS S7. IMO, Spike's pretty badass again by Season 5 of Angel, though of course it's not the same as before Buffy.

 

[caitaintdead]

Do you think that Angel was lame because he wallowed in pity for 100 years after gaining a soul? Or is that okay?

 

[sisterofmercy]

I think the guilt and pain from getting his soul back made him want to give up by that point, until Buffy gave him more confidence. It's not like getting your soul back is a walk in the park, I imagine it would come with a lot of grief.

 

[Tranquillity]

He was chained up when the bringers attacked and was (i would assume) outnumbered (we don't actually see his capture do we?) Then he is subjected to both physical and psycological torture repeatedly and is chained up for a large proportion of the time... not sure when he was supposed to "kick butt". besides, if he had saved his own ass, we would have been denied that awesome rescue scene in Showtime and that would have been a true shame.

 

[Anya2012]

It just annoyed the crap out of me off that a once bad-ass Spike just laid there and took the blows.

He got more of his edge back when he was transferred over to Angel and away from Buffy. Buffy made him kind of weak. *hides from Spuffies*.

 

[zobothehobo]

He changed. I think by the end he was a total bad ass again... I mean burning up and dying was a pretty BA move to me. I think it's just a different kind of bad ass-ness. A more mature BA if you will.

 

[Kana]

I think at first Spike's attitude was due to a form of disassociation. In a way he's doing a bit of an Angel/Angelus. Buffy rejected the demon again and again and the demon revelled in violence, so it makes sense that Spike wouldn't want to associate himself with that persona. In Get In Done, Buffy rejects the new persona so he 'becomes the demon warrior' again. Like Angel, he was just trying to find balance and understanding of his identity. At first he was using Buffy as the focus which made sense seen as he got a soul for her but as time went on it became more about his own journey irrespective of the Slayer. As much as I loved watching Spuffy, this is the Spike I respected more.

 

[Gotham]

God I hated Buffy when she laid into Spike about losing his edge but it was true unfortunately. Buffy really wound me up at times in S7 to the point that I preferred Faith (which is some turnaround if you go back and watch Season 3).

 

[white avenger]

Granted, Spike was chained up in that episode, and, granted, he wasn't up to his usual fighting form, having practically starved all summer, and he was also understandably reluctant to fight, or more accurately, to kill, at that point, but if you recall, he didn't have those excuses back in Season 5, when it only took 3 of Glory's minions to do the same thing. Both times, it was completely out of character for someone who had been established as a fighter so powerful and skillful that he could kill two Slayers single handedly, and survived several encounters with a third. Basically, I think that those were just cases of the writers needing Spike to be captured and tortured so that Buffy could come to his rescue.

 

[StarSlayer]

It just annoyed the crap out of me off that a once bad-ass Spike just laid there and took the blows.

I think it was pretty bad-ass that he was able to take all those beatings and still not give in to the First. The First tried to break him, convince him he wasn't worth saving (Buffy wouldn't come for him), and bring him back to fight for the evil side. But, he remained strong because Buffy believed in him. Just because someone doesn't necessarily fight back physically doesn't mean they aren't bad-ass. I think sometimes they are more bad-ass for not letting the beatings shake you.

He got more of his edge back when he was transferred over to Angel and away from Buffy. Buffy made him kind of weak. *hides from Spuffies*.

Lol, do you really want me to go there? 🙂 Like others said, he did lose some of this edge when he got his soul back because he wasn't the same person who sought out violence and killing. Buffy wasn't too thrilled about it because she wanted the "dangerous" Spike, and called him out on it in "Get It Done." And frankly, I'm happy she did. He was still sulking away and holding back although Buffy forgave him for everything and proved he mattered because she rescued him. She needed that dangerous side of Spike for her war because she knew that Spike could "get it done." So, Buffy's words actually helped make Spike stronger again. I just love that scene where Spike gets his leather coat back. 🙂

 

[Anya2012]

Don't misunderstand me...I adore Spike. I just hate Spuffy and I just miss him but now I remember the episode Get It Done. About to watch it again. 🙂

 

[StarSlayer]

^I'm the same in that I love Angel, but I don't like Bangel (post s2), so I get it. 🙂 Maybe one day, you'll see the awesomeness of Spuffy 😀

 

[Willow My Love]

So I'm rewatching season 7 and the episode Bring On The Night. Spike is captured by the First. Why didn't he try kick the Turock Hans butt? He just lay there and took the beatings. He didn't even TRY.

IMO Spike has lost a bit of his edge when he fell in love with Buffy and got his soul.
He would have tried to kick the Turock Hans ass and help kill the Bringers. He just got taken so easily.

I think that was the point. He was shaken by his soul, so he kinda gave up a bit.

I could make a similar argument about Willow, but we've all heard that before...

 

[SlayerFae]

Oh yeah, double standards be damned!

Angel is JUST as bad ass now... GRANTED, he HAS had 100+ years to wallow and feel sorry for himself and want to be a pacifist (uh ANY episode that had flashbacks of him with a soul, from EITHER series. Orpheus comes to mind, Becoming... Are You Now, Or Have You Ever Been... etc etc). So it makes sense that Spike still hasn't gotten all of his edge back if he's still struggling with his soul. Doesn't mean he won't get it back. And, I honestly believe that he'd get it back a lot faster than Angel did. To quote Angel "I spend a hundred years tryin' to come to terms with infinite remorse. You spent three weeks moaning in a basement, and then you were fine!" That pretty much already sets into motion that Spike is handling his pain and his penance better than Angel ever did.