Really no fighting the First?

B

ButWhy

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I'm kinda bummed out that I finished Buffy today and Angel last night. I watched Buffy when it first came out and liked it a lot but I was in high school and just got too busy to keep up with it. Great TV series but both Angel and Buffy had disappointing endings I mean all this big deal about the 1st and she doesn't fight it? and then those vampire things, I forget what their called, that they end up killing so easy after Buffy was fearful of them cause she couldn't beat it a few episodes before? I wished they kept it going for a few season longer even after 7 seasons of Buffy and 5 seasons of Angel I'm still wanting more!.
 
R
Ripper666
Want more too!
The Turok Hans they fight in Chosen might have been less fightingable. The other ones might have been like Angel & Spike, better warriors, due to experience, age and simply being extraordinary.
 
I totally agree. I wished there could be some more BTVS and Angel seasons! I think there was enough potenzial! But hey, I have to addmit that there are more than 100 different episodes from Buffy, with different tops and flops, but at least there are more than 100 different storys. I think hat's impressing!
 
I mostly agree. Season 7 had a huge potential and it did disappoint me. However, the thing that they tried to say about the First (always was and always will be) it kinda makes sense. But if it does, it's sort of pointless to create a whole season around it, and in the end say that.
 
ButWhy said:
I'm kinda bummed out that I finished Buffy today and Angel last night. I watched Buffy when it first came out and liked it a lot but I was in high school and just got too busy to keep up with it. Great TV series but both Angel and Buffy had disappointing endings I mean all this big deal about the 1st and she doesn't fight it? and then those vampire things, I forget what their called, that they end up killing so easy after Buffy was fearful of them cause she couldn't beat it a few episodes before? I wished they kept it going for a few season longer even after 7 seasons of Buffy and 5 seasons of Angel I'm still wanting more!.
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Buffy season 7 was full of disappointment. I loved Angel season 5 though, "Not Fade Away" is one of the most beautiful and epic Buffyverse episode...Chosen is crap, IMO
 
SpikeAllTheWay said:
I thought all of them are canon?
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Can of worms, can of warms I tell ya!

No, but seriously, what's canon and what's canon is debated pretty furiously at times.

But most people agree that not all comics are canon. There must be tons of threads about it on the board, some in the cementary, so I won't repeat the arguments.

Let's just say that Angel After the fall and Season 8(since season 9 is pretty much the same, let's count that too) are most commonly accepted as canon, since Joss called them canon(some people claim ATF isn't canon anymore). Then it's harder to decide.
 
Skytteflickan88 said:
Btw, have you thought about trying the comics? Some of them are canon.
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If I'm not mistaken, only the Seasons 8 and 9, the "Fray" miniseries, the various "Tales Of The Slayers," and Dark Horse's "After The Fall" arc in "Angel" are actually considered canon, because they were the only ones either written by or directly supervised by Joss. The earlier "Buffy" comics (which Dark Dorse seems to be reissuing at the moment) aren't canon, and in fact are totally contradictory to the televised series. For instance, some of the earlier comics depicted vampires as having green skin, pointed ears, and glowing red eyes.
 
white avenger said:
If I'm not mistaken, only the Seasons 8 and 9, the "Fray" miniseries, the various "Tales Of The Slayers," and Dark Horse's "After The Fall" arc in "Angel" are actually considered canon, because they were the only ones either written by or directly supervised by Joss. The earlier "Buffy" comics (which Dark Dorse seems to be reissuing at the moment) aren't canon, and in fact are totally contradictory to the televised series. For instance, some of the earlier comics depicted vampires as having green skin, pointed ears, and glowing red eyes.
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A lot of people agree with you(and add Tales of the vampires). But then, one could bring Long Night's Journey into discussion, since Joss wrote that. I don't have a source, but recall Joss saying he wrote that without considering it's canon-status. Tales of the slayers, the Djinn story, also features one mayor continuity error. But all in all, I don't have a big problem with counting these as canon. I also want to add Spike ATF, Spike Asylum and Spike Shadow Puppets as possible canon-stories(I'm trying to ignore Lynch's 8 issue Spike arc, because I think Spike acts very OOC, but I guess I would have to add that too...).

I agree with you on that non of the pre-Fray/Tales comics shouldn't be considered canon, not even those written by actors or writers of the shows, because of the errors. And because Joss never breathed a word about it being canon.

One could argue they are, since canon comics sometimes reference them (the panel in The Chain with lots of past slayers) but it's impossible to find a good answer that people can be pleased with. Some think that everything that Joss/his office approved of is canon. Which would include every novel too.

Btw, I'm more bothered by the continuity errors in the story than the art when it comes to the old comics. Also, the artists of season 8 also took some liberties, giving the vampire's claws, but that doesn't effect canon.
 
white avenger
white avenger
A agree about the art, I was just pointing out the difference. I always considered Joss' vampires to look sort of like Klingons, and then the comics made them look more like Vulcans.
All the ubervamp killings were a definite cop-out, but it did make sense that she wouldn't actually physically fight the First.
 
Personally I think The First was the most poorly thought out 'Big Bad' in the whole of Buffy. I mean, when we see it in season 2 it could touch Angel!

I wouldn't have wanted anymore Buffy. Season five was a good ending, but then they had to have season 6 and 7. Both had some good episodes but kinda sucked over all. I know there is the comics...but I just pretend that they don't exist, because the story lines sound kind of awful.

I can't comment on the ending of Angel because I haven't seen past season 2 yet 😛
 
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