Question Regarding the status of Angel and Co. in Season 8

[ladydorotea]

Hi everybody ,

I am kinda new to the board and my apologies if I am asking question that had been asked and answered a thousand times, but I cannot seem to find any coherent reference myself.

Basically - what is going on with Season Eight comic and the characters of Angel and all the cast that belonged to his show? They ARE the characters of the Buffy-verse and, I have to say, Angel in the main reason I am a Buffy-addict in the first place.

So what's the catch there? Are we basically back to the situation with the shows - when every Angel-cast character 'belongs' to the different network ( in this case - comic production company) - and therefore is forbidden from showing on the 'main' screen - comic page?

I have to say this hurts. A big time. After all the expectations Joss finally might have a chance to give us all some sort of closure - and the final Apocalypses that had been the premise of keeping Angel away is coming... and the Shansu prophecy yet might come to fruition - finally - and yet because of the silly business reason the most interesting ( at least for me) and deeply belonging to the story character is missing...

I know I am whining, but it really have been bothering me a lot - especially since Buffy seems to go through the same sort of routine ( blending the lines between black and white , trying to figure out where is her place in the final end of things - is she going to be the side of good or evil, always brooding and always uncertain) that used to be main Angel's act the whole time. And yet there is no mention of him neither in her thoughts nor in actual action - and excuse me but the erotic dreams type of 'inclusion' is just plain cheap. It cheapens the story, both past and present.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Joss has said that Angel and Spike will both appear in season 8 before the end. The characters all belong to Fox -- Dark Horse and IDW both use them under license. The license agreement specifically states that the Angel characters can be used in the season 8 comics.

Angel appeared in a (non-erotic) dream of Buffy's in issue #20.

 

[ladydorotea]

Joss has said that Angel and Spike will both appear in season 8 before the end. The characters all belong to Fox -- Dark Horse and IDW both use them under license. The license agreement specifically states that the Angel characters can be used in the season 8 comics.

Angel appeared in a (non-erotic) dream of Buffy's in issue #20.

They will appear 'for real' - or can we consider them 'appeared' already after featuring in 2 erotic dreams and in Angel's case 1 memory ?

There is a lot of Season 3 memories in Season 8 and the whole story seems to be reverting to Season 3 'status', in a sense... that's why I am so frustrated. Yet even when Faith remembers her and Buffy unhappy encounter in S3 she omits Angel - it sort of feels weird. Same with Ethan and Amy's rat cage...

Was there any mention at least if Buffy and Co know of what happened in LA? Was it mentioned anywhere that Buffy knows that W&H LA branch is no more ?

 

[white avenger]

Joss has said on several occasions that Angel and Spike would be appearing in Season 8, but has, obviously, given no specific dates or details. If by "closure" you are referring to a final answer and settlement of the Bangel/Spuffy argument, I wouldn't hang any hopes on it happening. At the very best, we might gen some variation of "I love you both, but I'm just not ready to make a decision like that. It wouldn't be fair to anyone concerned."

 

[AndrewCrossett]

They will appear 'for real' - or can we consider them 'appeared' already after featuring in 2 erotic dreams and in Angel's case 1 memory ?

So far Angel's appearances in Season 8 have been:

1. The "threesome" vision with Angel, Buffy and Spike in TLWH. This was before Joss made his comment about Angel and Spike, so it doesn't count.

2. Buffy's dream conversation with him in #20. I think this was also before Joss's comment.

3. "Always Darkest." This comic was actually a pretty recent development and Joss didn't come up with the story idea until after they'd decided to do it. I'm betting he didn't even have it in mind yet when he made his comment. So I don't think it counts. I'm pretty sure he was referring to Angel and Spike being in the actual comic book.

I think they will probably appear in the final arc of season 8, which Joss will be writing.

 

[ladydorotea]

Joss has said on several occasions that Angel and Spike would be appearing in Season 8, but has, obviously, given no specific dates or details. If by "closure" you are referring to a final answer and settlement of the Bangel/Spuffy argument"

I know Joss won't let Buffy end up happy - that's not his style obviously. She has to be that ever tormented and unhappy yet erotic symbol yada yada. In a story written by male/for males about a female superhero that's what is most obvious cliche and I don't expect this to change, unless a different writer would be taking over the finale -which is not going to happen. By 'closure' I meant that if we are to get the Apocalypses than Angel finally would had to jump one way or another - and fulfill the premise of being brought back from Hell in S3. And Spike has to fulfill his premise - which would be to try and stop Angel from achieving whatever he is about to achieve - either ultimate goodness or ultimate evilness and try to grab it for himself. My frustration is mostly over the fact that Apocalyptic events keep happening - but nothing ever is achieved - just gets diluted with time wraps and vague promises of the next storyline. So, basically I am wondering if Buffy's Apocalypse is the Angel Apocalypse or if the events on one show/comic would be totally ignored by the other storyline because of the commercial reasons?

 

[white avenger]

If I recall properly, the final battle, as portrayed in the "Fray" series, is supposed to be, as of now, the finale of the proposed Season 9, but whether or not that will be the one in which the shanshu will occur hasn't been announced. As far as that goes, given the source of the information, Wolfram & Hart, renowned for their dishonesty and manipulation of facts, it's still really inconclusive, to me at least, as to who will gey what, why they will get it, when they will get it, and even if this is a real prophesy or just another in a long line of deceptions and misdirections by the Senior Partners or that arch villain, the REAL and greatest First Evil of them all, the vile and despicable Joss Whedon. It's just the sort of bait that he would use to reel the unsuspecting fans in and rejoice in their confusion and dismay.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I believe the "Fraypocalypse" -- in which magic, demons and vampires are supposed to be banished from the world -- will happen at the end of season 8. However, I don't know if it will happen as portrayed in "Fray." For one thing, that story was told by an unreliable narrator (Urkonn). For another, I suspect "Fray" has shifted to an alternate timeline following the events of "Time of Your Life."

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

So, basically I am wondering if Buffy's Apocalypse is the Angel Apocalypse or if the events on one show/comic would be totally ignored by the other storyline because of the commercial reasons?

No, the events won't be ignored (assuming something has a global impact and would reasonably effect both teams).

And if we're to believe Lindsey, there is really only one Apocalypse. All the little ones Buffy & Angel's teams have thwarted are all part of a big Apocalypse. If there's only one, then it is pretty reasonable to believe that Angel's & Buffy's are the same. Now we also know that Angel goes berserk for one reason or another during the Apocalypse, I can't wait to see Spike, Connor & Buffy reacting to that.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Now we also know that Angel goes berserk for one reason or another during the Apocalypse,

Assuming that's a true vision and not just manipulation... a very big assumption.

That whole thing strikes me as "The Father Will Kill the Son, Part II."

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Assuming that's a true vision and not just manipulation... a very big assumption.

That whole thing strikes me as "The Father Will Kill the Son, Part II."

Personally, I'd guess that it's a true vision, but taken radically out of context. But in-Universe, it seems like everyone except Connor believes that it's true. You'd think between Cordy rep.-ing TPTB and Wes rep.-ing W&H, if there's some in-Universe doubt, one of them would have voiced it.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Joss has said that Angel and Spike will both appear in season 8 before the end. The characters all belong to Fox -- Dark Horse and IDW both use them under license. The license agreement specifically states that the Angel characters can be used in the season 8 comics.

Angel appeared in a (non-erotic) dream of Buffy's in issue #20.

SPIKEY is coming back!!! Do we have any more info on this?

 

[ukkid09]

It be cool if Spike comes back !

 

[Nixennacht]

SPIKEY is coming back!!! Do we have any more info on this?

Could he have meant the Jo Chen webcomic?

I really hope Spike makes an appearence at one point or another in S8. We would not even need to be there in person, it would just be nice to know, if Buffy knows after all this time.

 

[Kanazaka]

Well, Harmony has shown up, and she was at Wolfram & Hart during Season Five of Angel. I was going to wait until I read Season Eight, Volume Five (yep, I'm reading the TPBs), but is this pre-Angel (Season Five) Harmony or post-Angel Harmony? If it's pre-Angel, then Spike isn't corporeal, right? And I'm thinking it can't be post-Angel, since I would think that would be too late in the Buffyverse timeline. Please mark all spoilers in your response, if anyone knows the answer to this.