Religion

[What happened to good TV?]

I suddenly have become all deep and meaningful and have really been thinking about my beliefs. I realised I wasn't completely sure what I believed. Maybe its the recent religion frenzy brought by the Da Vinci Code, as I have never really been thinking about things as seriously as I am right now.


As I wasn't brought up by a religious family, comprimising of atheists(although I believe most people just use this term if they dont read the bible or go to church....most people I know anyway who seem incapable of intelectual discussions!) so i never really gave it much thought. After much research on my good friend wikipedia I found much information on agnosticism. Interesting stuff. The problem with the site, and the nature of the discussion, is there are so many fasinating ideas, and theories that it is hard to pinpoint a specific one I believe.


I am wondering what peoples religous beliefs are, if you are certain, unsure, and even if you haven't really thought about it.

 

[goldenboy]

I don't wanna muck up your thread, cos it seems like you're taking a local Buffy Boards poll here, but...I found an interesting piece on rates of atheism/agnosticism in various countries.

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html

 

[eponinethen]

That's interesting goldenboy, won't read all of it but they say that (according to some of those) 85% of us Swedes don't believe in a god, guess that sounds kind of likely..

I was brought up by atheists, when I was about 14-15 I started becoming really interested in religion and did some research, went to some meetings, read some stuff etc. (Even went to e 4 week "konfirmationsläger", best 4 weeks of my life so far, that's where I started "coming out" as gay, but that's a completely different story..)
Anyhow, I called myself a christian for a while but decided that religion is not my thing, and I found BtVS instead, which is now my substitute for a religion 🙂

(Yes I'm a freak..)

 

[Joamna]

I've never been religious, neither of my parents are either. I've always been certain that I don't believe in god, had a short period when I was a child when I tried to be religious but it didn't work.. People in my hometown are very religious though, I've always been surrounded by very religious people (maybe that was why I tried to be religious as a child..) and at my last school there, I was almost the only one in my class who wasn't baptised.

Sometimes I've been jealous at people with strong beliefs, like I was missing something or so.. But yeah, like epo BtVS is now my "religion", it's the closest thing I've ever gotten to a religion anyway.

 

[goldenboy]

Yeah, I understand the Buffy Boards love. Traditional religion is about communing"”not just with God or nature or what-have-you, but communing with a "community". It's social glue, to a certain extent. When that goes away, what fills the void? Different things for different people, I guess...

One really interesting thing about that link I posted: it notes that countries with high percentages of "organic" (non-coerced) atheism correlate to high standards of living, high literacy rates, relatively low crime, etc. That includes most of Western Europe, much of the Anglosphere (except for the US). But it doesn't claim anything like causation. It leaves cause and effect up in the air.

Also, there are those that argue that there's a correlation between atheism/secularism and declining birth rates in the West. It seems like an open question, whether or not a truly secular culture can actually sustain itself, long term"”if it can't reproduce itself, or "convert" others to the cause. I dunno.

 

[master kenobi]

iv never been religous... i kind of follow my own rules, well not rules as such but my conchance and my own wisdom.
if i was to be with a religon id be pagan, ( somtimes celibrate sabbaths)

 

[Lyri]

i don't think i have a religion...my parents aren't religious people themselves, but they did send all of us kids to Sunday school when we were younger. like almost everyone, i did try it, was a leader for a youth group until i was about 19. but when my grandfather died, i kinda lost my faith...well, actually i discovered i didn't have much faith to begin with. too many things have happened in my life.

 

[Cohen]

I'm not down-on-my-knees-praying-24/7 religious, but I am a christian. I believe there is a God who came to earth as Jesus and sacrificed himself for mankind. There are some things that i hear at church that make me think...tho i cant remember what they are the next day cuz i just forget about it. I believe in a heaven, and i intend to go there. I am a United Methodist. If i were catholic or baptist...let's just say i would go to hell. (methodist joke). My family isnt like WAY religious, but we all believe in the forementioned.

 

[Schillaci]

I'm not down-on-my-knees-praying-24/7 religious, but I am a christian. I believe there is a God who came to earth as Jesus and sacrificed himself for mankind. There are some things that i hear at church that make me think...tho i cant remember what they are the next day cuz i just forget about it. I believe in a heaven, and i intend to go there. I am a United Methodist. If i were catholic or baptist...let's just say i would go to hell. (methodist joke). My family isnt like WAY religious, but we all believe in the forementioned.

You do realise how ridiculous this sounds, right? "God came to earth and sacrificed himself for mankind", holy crap I have no words....No wait I do.

You see that wasn't Gods plan, he came to earth to teach mankind how to be good..so we kicked his retarded ass all the way out our world.

 

[zombie.apparatus]

I've never been religious, neither of my parents are either. I've always been certain that I don't believe in god, had a short period when I was a child when I tried to be religious but it didn't work.. People in my hometown are very religious though, I've always been surrounded by very religious people (maybe that was why I tried to be religious as a child..) and at my last school there, I was almost the only one in my class who wasn't baptised.

Sometimes I've been jealous at people with strong beliefs, like I was missing something or so.. But yeah, like epo BtVS is now my "religion", it's the closest thing I've ever gotten to a religion anyway.

That is almost exactly what I'm like.... expect I do believe in God.... im not yet sure what I belive... I dont think God is a person... and I dont want this to offend anyone but i hate religion, i think it can be really useless and pointles.. i mean some people's lives are based just on pleasing or praying to their god.... and follwoing these beliefs that were made up my someone i dont know... i mean does anybody? What because people needed to believe in something! And what is stupid is that i know some people that wouldnt get a transplant of any kind because it is a 'sin'... i mean come on.. if it is to save your life or your childs life you are going to let them die because you arent allowed and belive thats whats right... Religion...just doesnt go with me at all!

 

[eponinethen]

Also, there are those that argue that there's a correlation between atheism/secularism and declining birth rates in the West. It seems like an open question, whether or not a truly secular culture can actually sustain itself, long term"”if it can't reproduce itself, or "convert" others to the cause. I dunno.

Maybe not "convert", but is that really necessary? Won't it, um, "reproduce" anyways? Isn't that what it looks like?

Anyways, there are of course a lot of reasons for what you're talking about. One of the main ones being feminism and how the idea of family is changing, etc. This does of course have to do with people being less religious though, obviously.

Also, even though I do know people who are gay and christian (and I used to be one of those for a month or two), I think I'd find it difficult in the long run to stay christian while being very open about my sexual orientation. I understand people who say that Jesus wasn't against gayness, bible written by others blah blah etc., and I can agree with that but I guess there are a lot of christians who would have a problem with it, heh..

 

[goldenboy]

Maybe not "convert", but is that really necessary? Won't it, um, "reproduce" anyways? Isn't that what it looks like?

Yeah, I wasn't meaning to imply any sort of conscious effort on anyone's part. Societies just seem to have gotten more secular/atheistic/agnostic as they've become more industrialized, affluent, literate, comfortable. And birthrates seem to have declined along with all those things"”to the point of being substantially below replacement levels in some cases.

Religious people have more children, generally. But over the long term, are those children mostly going to abandon their parent's faith, or embrace it? Not sure. Practicing Christians have largely died out in much of Europe, it seems like. Is Islam going to really surge ahead and keep growing in Europe...or will the dominant secular culture cause it to die out too at some point? I have no idea.

There's this writer for the Asia Times Online, "Spengler" (just a nom de plume I think). He seems to be a historian or demographer of some sort. He claims to see a long term decline of the secular world.

Death by secularism: Some statistical evidence
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GH02Aa01.html


The US is kind of a cultural 50/50 split. "Red State" (more religious conservative) America is apparently having more kids than "Blue State" (more secular) America. From November of '04:

Power and the evangelical womb
A correspondent in New York reports that one of the local magazines proclaims that city "the one-child-family capital of the United States". That illustrates why the influence of American metropole will continue to fall.
The demographic shift in favor of "red" (Republican) versus "blue" (Democratic) states helped President George W Bush win last week's election, American commentators have observed. What we have observed thus far is only the thin end of an enormous wedge. Religious ("red") Americans will continue to have children, and secular ("blue") Americans will continue to extinguish themselves...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FK09Aa02.html

 

[BillieHunter]

My family tried the whole drag me and my sister to church and force us to get confirmed thing but it was so much of something they felt was the right thing to do...i dont really think they are religious themselves...SInce then I've kinda gone with the whole agnostic point of view...maybe theres a god maybe there isnt...im not really going to concern myself with it, and honstly i dont really care...maybe ill find out the answer one day, but until then its not a question that really concerns me...if there is a god well then thats great...if there isnt thats fine too...

 

[Angel's vision]

This thread is intersesting,I wasn't bought up in a christian home. My personnal opinion is i believe in God, sending his son to die for us, so we can have a relationship with him.

I just sought God when things were difficult, and it has given me a better perspective on things.

 

[Schillaci]

This thread is intersesting,I wasn't bought up in a christian home. My personnal opinion is i believe in God, sending his son to die for us, so we can have a relationship with him.

Why? WHY? whywhywhy?

Have a relationship with who? God? What's that like?
Consider this
Consider
He didn't send his son, he sent me, to cure the world of weakness.

Explain your belief in more detail, and I will show you the flaw in your (lack of) logic.

I just sought God when things were difficult, and it has given me a better perspective on things.

When I find myself in times of trouble, mother MaryJane😀 comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

 

[CrazyMary]

I don't believe in God and I don't think I ever will...
My parents and grand parents are atheists so I hadn't got a religious education...When I was around 8, I started to get interesting in religion because most of my friends went to catechism but they send me packing cuz I wasn't baptised! at that time christians weren't very open minded people to me...that's pretty much the first impression of religion I had...
I don't think religions are bad..cuz the some of the ideas of peace,solidarity and all can be honourable...plus, certain people need to be reassured by the fact that their someone/something above us that's watching/helping us... like a headlight or something...if it helps them to go throuhgt their life that's positive.
IMO religious authority are BAD ...they just use people's weakness, people's faith...once again it's a question of power(and probably money)...religion give them the power to get people's trust and control them,sometimes like puppets (i'm talking about extrem cases)

 

[Angel's vision]

My lack of logic..????
Excuse me but this ,

When I find myself in times of trouble, mother MaryJane comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

is really baffling can you explain that logic to me...?

 

[Cohen]

Why? WHY? whywhywhy?

Have a relationship with who? God? What's that like?
Consider this
Consider
He didn't send his son, he sent me, to cure the world of weakness.

Explain your belief in more detail, and I will show you the flaw in your (lack of) logic.

It's called "Faith". Look it up.

 

[Schillaci]

It's called "Faith". Look it up.

Your pavlovian response didn't answer the question I asked, but thanks for skipping the back and forth and jumping straight into the 'master defense'.

I looked up "faith". Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

Sounds like ignorance.

They do say ignorance is bliss.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I don't understand Faith at all! I just don't see how people can just believe something, without proper evidence to back it up!