Removing the Chip - Right/Wrong?

It probobly wasn't the soundest thing to do.... And they were in the right to be angry with her for doing it without consulting them first. Yet, we know that Buffy's feelings towards Spike often cause her to made "bad" decisions concerning him. The chip was killing him though, and he did have a soul, so it's not like he would have hurt any living thing anyway. Removing the chip, at that point, was the "right" thing to do in my opinion.
 
From my point of few her decision isn't as wrong as the others think it is. Spike has changed and a soul now, so he won't hurt humans anyway. Besides Buffy kind of loves him and you can't kill somebody you love and who is powerful enough to help. And in the end you can see that his survival was very important for the victory. I think Buffy and Spike balance themselves. She helps him with his chip and he helps her when all the others stopp believing in her. So it was the right decision
 
Well that's all true, I don't believe he should have been held in restraints since he had a soul now. But my biggest problem with her decision is the trigger, something that could be activated at a moments notice so at that point he seemed like more of a hindrance to the big picture than a help. Now we know he was killing even with the chip but I kind of believe it was malfunctioning. I mean he starts killing, then a few episodes later his head nearly explodes. I don't think she should have taken the risk and should have instead opted for a new chip.
 
Well I think quoting Buffy directly i sufficient. It was a muzzle...you cant beat evil by doing evil. It was wrong.

Why replace it with a whole new chip? It makes no sense. Do you see anyone asking for Angel to be chipped? Of course not. Spike is a new man with his soul, just as Angelous and Angel bear little resemblance to each other.
 
People keep saying that since he had a soul now "he wouldn't hurt people anyway". Well, that's simply not the case. Angel hurt a lot of people, even with a soul. People with souls are responsible for most of the pain in the world. I think that has to be taken into consideration too - a soul is not a warm and fuzzy chip.
 
But as far as killing people, those with a soul hardly do it. I can't recall when Angel killed anyone when he had a soul, and in AtS he only did it when it was absolutely necessary. Also by leaving the chip in his head I think that gave the first the power of the trigger needed and that in turn made Spike evil. once the chip was removed he no longer had the splitting migraines and once he overcame the trigger he was fine. I don't think there is anything that suggests he would be evil if the chip was removed, an nothing suggests he would not be evil if he had kept it in.
 
I think removing the chip was the right thing to do, it was a muzzle and Spike had the soul at that point.

People keep saying that since he had a soul now "he wouldn't hurt people anyway". Well, that's simply not the case. Angel hurt a lot of people, even with a soul. People with souls are responsible for most of the pain in the world. I think that has to be taken into consideration too - a soul is not a warm and fuzzy chip.
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Yes, just because he had the soul it doesn't automatically follow that he's good now, but all the way through the season we see that Spike with a soul is good, or at least trying to be when the First isn't making him its plaything.

As for the First and the trigger - well, he was still able to bite and turn those people at the beginning of the season with it in, so even if the chip had been replaced and the First had decided to use him again it wouldn't have made a difference.

I think for Buffy, at this point, there was really no other alternative than to take it out.
 
Lindsey McDonald said:
People keep saying that since he had a soul now "he wouldn't hurt people anyway". Well, that's simply not the case. Angel hurt a lot of people, even with a soul. People with souls are responsible for most of the pain in the world. I think that has to be taken into consideration too - a soul is not a warm and fuzzy chip.
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ok... well by this reasoning, we should all get chips. Spike has a soul, his human soul, its ridiculous for him to have a chip for the same reason its ridiculous for Angel to have one.

At the end of the day Spike needs to be able to hurt humans anyway, because there are bad humans out there. Like that group of kids Spike had to fight in the new Sunnydale who wanted to sacrifice Cassie... he had to fight through the pain just to do his job.

As for the first, we all know that Spike went killing even with his chip so a chip is pretty meaningless as far as The First is concerned. Plus, if the first wanted to use Spike, the chips not gonna stop it. There are plenty of ways to kill a bunch of potentials that dont include direct contact.
 
Silum said:
ok... well by this reasoning, we should all get chips. Spike has a soul, his human soul, its ridiculous for him to have a chip for the same reason its ridiculous for Angel to have one.
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That's not what I was saying at all. I was merely pointing out that he isn't necessarily safe just because he has a soul. Obviously, it's a major consideration, but it's not at all definative like people were making out it was.
 
Plot wise, the removal of Spike's chip was necessary in order to prove that he was, indeed, one of the good guys as a matter of choice and free will as well as prove once and for all that Buffy did indeed trust and believe in him enough to give him that freedom of choice. Also, it allowed for the confrontation between him and Wood AND served as the catalyst in the beginning rift between Buffy and Giles, which I believe we will see more of in the future, especially if Giles continues to allow more of his "Ripper" personality to show.

Removal of Spike's chip made him once more his own man, and he needed that to continue developing as a character. So, yes, I do believe that Buffy made the right decision.

(And, personally, I'm really hoping for a rematch between Spike and Faith once she gets back in top fighting shape. He'll still beat her, of course, but she will at least give him more of a match)
 
It was absolutely the right decision. It is not right to take away people's free will. He has the right to decide on his own and if he goes on killing people he must be stoped and punished. (if its necessary killed)
 
Yeah, I had been dying for this moment since the time he got it. It doesn't matter if he was evil, it was weird and wrong. Plus that was a huge weakness for him. The first...or anyone could have gotten someone good to do bad things, and Spike wouldn't have a fighting chance.

Props to Buffy and Spike. Oh and I loved when he beat on Robin Wood. I don't know why just thought it was cool. hahah 😀
 
If the chip had been kept in, Principal Wood would have killed Spike in Lies My Parents Told Me.

I dunno, I just think it'd have been wrong for the chip to have been left in - at this point in the series there was no good reason. He has a soul and is actively trying to do good, the First was able to get him to kill people even with the chip, and he should have the right to defend himself if someone attacks (as we saw happen with Wood.)
 
H
Harm
yea, but Buffy would have gotten REVENGE for killing good ol spike.
I think it was the right thing to do. He had a soul, and he'd been fighting on the side of good for sometime even before he had a soul. Removing the chip made him a more effective champion for good, as it gave him the ability to help train the potentials, as one example. Being a champion for good doesn't mean you never ever ever have to hurt a human. Buffy does it all the time.

If the chip had only ever prevented him from KILLING a human, I might have been ok with it. But it prevented him from hurting at all, which meant he couldn't even restrain someone if need be. That's not helpful.
 
Well, the problem is same as with Empty Places -- you are using future to determine the right or wrong. You can't do that, that would be cheating. I do agree heavily with Lindsey about most doing very big mistake assuming souls are indication of good. I wonder Buffy logic about why she really did it, was it selfish or not. You have to remember that Spike could already hurt Buffy so it was not additional risk for her, furtheron as slayer she was capable of defending herself. So interesting question is did she think about others when did that and it is question we never shall have full answer probably.

Another interesting point is that she told noone about it, Giles found out it by accident. Kinda ironic seeing she blamed later Giles going behind her back.

Now going back to original point -- it was a gamble and i think it was right decision due to fact that chip probably was not stopping him from doing the First commands and most importantly would been useless against the First followers (as i believe working chip would have stopped him).
 
Well that's all true, I don't believe he should have been held in restraints since he had a soul now. But my biggest problem with her decision is the trigger, something that could be activated at a moments notice so at that point he seemed like more of a hindrance to the big picture than a help. Now we know he was killing even with the chip but I kind of believe it was malfunctioning. I mean he starts killing, then a few episodes later his head nearly explodes. I don't think she should have taken the risk and should have instead opted for a new chip.
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I rather doubt that inserting a new chip would have been the right choice. I suspect that the First Evil's control of him would have continued as long he Spike continued to refuse to face his personal demons. And robbing him of any control or decision is rather repulsive in my eyes . . . regardless of any danger. I've always found the Initiative's decision to put that chip in his head rather abhorrent and something close to behavorial rape. Buffy would have been guilty of the same thing if she had continued to allow Spike's free will and choices to be restrained or controlled.

If maintaining the chip was such a good idea, then behaviorial chips should have been inserted in nearly everyone inside the Summers' home. Or just about everyone. They were all dangerous to one another, anyway.
 
Atren said:
Well, the problem is same as with Empty Places -- you are using future to determine the right or wrong. You can't do that, that would be cheating.
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Well the fact that Spike was the one who saved the world is meaningless since noone knew that yes, but every other reason stated is true. Buffys reasoning if you remember at the end of Lies my parents told me, she told Wood that the mission is waht matters, she also said that Spike is the most powerful warrior we have. Why the heck do you need to muzzle the most powerful warrior you have.

Not only that but the chip is proven to be a pretty crappy piece of hardware that disintegrates after 3 measly years. Why would buffy subject someone she cares so deeply about to something so horriffic.

Its a meaningless question to me because it just seems so absurd to replace the chip. The only reason we are talking about it is because the writers wrote in the option and Giles made such a big deal about it. And the way Giles acted in LMPTM was pretty petty as well, distracting Buffy while he maliciously went behind her back to kill someone who had fought side by side with him, not to mention all he had done for Dawn.

One final thing that i'll bring up again. The chip was a product of restraining a soulless vamp. Spike with a soul is William the human, who is completely different person from William with a demon living inside him. The way its presented in the buffyverse is the demon is repressed by the soul (Angel often had lines like "ive got a demon in me that just been waitin for a good fight). So Spike has to be considered for the warrior that he is...the champion that he is. Remember, Buffy titled him champion before he ever did any hellmouth closing. From this point of view, having a chip in him makes no sense and im glad the writers gave him his free-will back because otherwise; we have a Spike on a leash and we dont see the real spike..the spike that has control because of his own accord not someone elses.
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I agree with most of your post apart from the "Spike with a soul is William" part - I don't think this is entirely true - the Spike we see in S7 is miles away from the Spike we saw in FFL. Though this is a whole other debate on what the soul does...
It was right of her to remove the chip. The chip clearly didn't stop The First from controlling Spike which would be the only legitimate reason to put a new one in Spike's head. Those who said that a soul isn't an indication that a person is good are absolutely correct. However, having his human soul back DOES make Spike a very different man than he was in season six. No, it didn't necessarily make him good, but he deserved the chance to be good and live free every bit as much as Buffy, Dawn, Xander, etc. And he'd spent a good portion of the season already proving to Buffy that he was capable of being a good man. So to muzzle him wouldn't be right.
 
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