Reparations?

[palabravampiress]

I agree, Looking Glass. I don't think any race should be legally privileged above any other.

I also don't see how reparations fix anything. You can't fix the past and you certainly can't throw money at it. The idea seems flawed to me. If my father kills a man, it is illegal to imprison, fine, or otherwise punish me for his crime unless it is proven in a court of law that I somehow assisted him. Why, then, do some argue in favor of taking money from present day taxpayers, whose ancestors may or may not have been slaves or slaveholders in the past, and then to redistribute that money solely to those whose ancestors were slaves? We're trying to punish long dead people for crimes against other long dead people. if my tax money is going to help those in need, I'd rather have it earmarked for those currently in need -- regardless of their ancestry -- than earmarked along lines that reinforce racial prejudice and divisiveness.

 

[JCC]

I don't agree with reparations, I think that communities need to work together to alleviate all property rather than working through a system of racial profiling. Compassion should not be a way of paying back debts, or feeling like you're absolved of your past sins, compassion should be for its own sake.

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------

Oh arses, I meant to say 'poverty', not 'property'.

 

[Harley]

SpoonsAreCool disagrees: I don't see America as ONE nation under GOD. Sorry.

And "I don't give a damn" doesnt even begin to describe how much I lack in care. It's in the pledge, it's what we were founded on. Find something bigger and badder to neg me about.

 

[JenniferAlice]

And "I don't give a damn" doesnt even begin to describe how much I lack in care. It's in the pledge, it's what we were founded on. Find something bigger and badder to neg me about.

Ok, I had a long think about it, and I really can't think of something "bigger and badder" than America and God, sorry.

 

[Relic]

Bad is Good, sometimes, like slang. Least thats how I see my God, good.

My country, I think tries, but it is only human after all. I love my God and the only problem I ever seem to have comes by way of God's people. Collectives of humanity are scary things.

onward and sideways......

I don't believe in reparations as I've already stated. I'm not a big fan of affirmative action either. At the same time I do see an uneven playing field and recognize certain obstacles to overcome for people, and often times those obstacles can be found in an ethnic -for lack of better word- collective.

The most obvious one's to my experience, or at least the ones I have some familiarity with are the African Americans in ghettos and slums. There are white people there too, in trailer parks etc.

Not the race, but the environment, has saw fit to be very challenging to these people. Crime, drugs,violence, poor school environments, lack of opportunity...the list goes on and on; it's what makes a bad environment a bad environment. A bad environment is not a clear cut indicator of a bad people though and those that rise above this should be rewarded by recognition.

College is not an infinite campus and not everyone can get in.

That said, I do not have a problem with a student, be they white, black, whatever coming up in such a dangerous and challenging environment and scoring on whatever arbitrary scale judges us all academically, (say a 95 percent) taking the place of of someone growing up in the suburbs and going to a private school, etc. - basically lacking the real life dangers/challenges/pedigree who scored the same, or even a point or two higher.

I don't believe in spotting points or handicapping based on race, but I do believe in giving credit where credit is due, based on environment.

I agree with points that others have said that the only true way to fix the problem is to fix the broken environment, but I honestly believe that with some individuals who succeed and go back to their neighborhoods to help build them up, that this is a step in that direction.

For those that say we are punishing success by not seating the deserving, I'd counter by saying in the big picture there is much more to consider than GPA's when it comes to rewarding success and hard work.

This topic and another back at our dorm awhile ago, has finally helped me get a handle on how I see affirmative action which is...right idea, wrong criteria. Now that i have a better grasp on my belief, feel free to talk me out of it. 🙂

 

[JenniferAlice]

College is not an infinite campus and not everyone can get in.

That said, I do not have a problem with a student, be they white, black, whatever coming up in such a dangerous and challenging environment and scoring on whatever arbitrary scale judges us all academically, (say a 95 percent) taking the place of of someone growing up in the suburbs and going to a private school, etc. - basically lacking the real life dangers/challenges/pedigree who scored the same, or even a point or two higher.

I don't believe in spotting points or handicapping based on race, but I do believe in giving credit where credit is due, based on environment.

Totally agree. Doesn't matter what race you are, if you've grown up in challenging environment, and done well academically, I think it shows that you can cope well with whatever had been thrown at you, and should be given a chance.

 

[JCC]

LookingGlass disagrees: so move...or, if you dont live here, stop complaining

I never understand this argument. Anyone complaining about the state of America whilst living in America was probably born there, why should someone be forced out of their home by the malice of others?

 

[Relic]

They should not, and bitching about the status quo is the only way the status no makes any headway. In short I agree "Love it or leave it" does not honor love at all. Love is inspite of as often as because of. You don't love it or leave it, you love it and converse with it- make it see your point if it's worth seeing.

The true trick is to let your love influence something. Wrap up that desire and passion and make a point and influence an enemy. Love can do that...change things... if it is returned in earnest. (In retrospect love might not be the best metaphore for you, JCC- talking about another topic there though.)

The truely big problem is people are as veraible as the imagination. You can't have a true consensus, a true lock. You can have what serves the most for the longest though. If that way is not to be stagnated and corupted there always must be a vocal minority to oppose the majority; give it food for thought so to speak.

Life is very much give and take- no getting around that.

 

[randiann]

I hate that Native American's get to go to college for free just because we took their land.

Meaning Native Americans go to college for free simply because they have a CDIB-A Certified Degree of Indian Blood Card. Meaning the reason I got my scholarship (which is for minority students) is simply because I have a CDIB, I am Choctaw, and has nothing to do with my intelligence. That's what I'm getting from your own words.

The reason why I don't like this remark is because it is not only inaccurate and perpetuates stereotypes, it is also inadvertantly racist. And that's not totally your fault. There is alot of underlying racism in America (think of mascots for example-Kansas City Chiefs anyone? Washington Redskins?). It's all hate. It all perpetuates stereotypes. To people like you, who I'm assuming have never had any exposure to Native cultures and derive your information from high school textbooks and hollywood, it's all "we" versus "them". That's why I'm offended by your statements.

Spoons has a right to voice her dislike of America and God: We are a country that supposedly totally distances government from God, yet we still have it in our pledge. Perhaps she sees the irony in this, and that's why she commented as she did. America's certainly got a LONG way to go before things get better here. This is certainly not the worst place to live, but it's definately not utopia either.

 

[Relic]

Each person must answer their own actions toward God one day, it's not up to me to police it. Its not up to you either. Half of my ancestry comes from a devout belief in a Christian God, just as my forefathers to this country. It has an established history and that should not be denied by reason of appeasement. That appeasement was not necessary in those times...I don't feel it is now...so why bother doing so?

It is not good or bad to my judgement for Jen to do as she has, it is mearly her prerogative or as you said her right, unless we want to start sacrificing non believers or something, in which case I'm first in line to save her.

I understand how you were offended to the implied entitlement remark, I was also, but there is such a thing as over reacting politically correct nonsense. Mascot offense falls into that category for me.

They are mascots and caricatures over accredited pasts, and this argument over mascots and other wussery is akin to picketing free speech and how the counrty views its countrymen/people.

 

[Harley]

I never understand this argument. Anyone complaining about the state of America whilst living in America was probably born there, why should someone be forced out of their home by the malice of others?

My opinion is that if you live in America and don't like things about it, try to change it but don't complain. Complaining doesnt get anyone anywhere. If you're not willing to do anything to change it, then move.

If you don't live in America, you have no right to comment about how our lives are/arent run.

 

[Blondie Bear]

^ I tend to think that if you want America to be more like another country, maybe you should just move to that country and let us keep going with the Constitution.

 

[Relic]

But American ideals were founded by France, and Greece and awhole lot of others, should those people move here or us there? Whatever happened to the real american spirit of fighting for what you believe in, shaping the destiny of democracy by way of voice and reason. Is that not why we can protest and have multiple parties etc. etc.?

No one is showing me to the door when i don't agree with George or Baraq.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in the constitution also, but a great deal of the discourse in this country is because of the different ways of interpretaing it; a document may found a country, but it is very hardpressed to define it over the course of years. The founders belivied that african americans were not men and women were not there equal, and in hemp, hemp I say!

joking aside, some of the problem is not with those that believe counter document, but rather how they view that document....militias for instance vs. the right to bear arms.... freedom of religion vs. seperation from church and state....what is point blank in your face spelled out and what is suggested. Living constituion vs. hardline constituion.

This is approaching out of thread talk, sorry.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I'm not saying that difference of opinion is bad. Mostly, I think when people try to turn us Socialist, or take away some of our Constitutionally-protected freedoms because "no OTHER countries need that" that I start to get mad and think, well then, why don't you go THERE if you like it so much!

 

[Harley]

I'm all for standing up for what you believe in and working to change things you disagree with. But there's no point in whining about something you're not gonna get off your butt to try and fix.

 

[JCC]

Complaining doesnt get anyone anywhere.

Of everything that I've heard today, this is the definitely the strangest yet.

 

[Harm]

Stupid. Get over yourselves. None of these people were even there!
I agree with LookingGlass 10000000000% 😀

 

[JCC]

Stupid. Get over yourselves. None of these people were even there!

And you think that 150 years is ample time for every social repercussion of slavery, 500-200 years for forcing out the indigenous peoples into other countries, to be wiped clean, despite the fact that they are still self-evident issues in contemporary America?

 

[randiann]

^And to add to that, civil rights are still an issue we are fighting for. Desegregation didn't occur till the 1960's, and Native Americans weren't even considered citizens of the US till 1924 (irony much?). To just say "Stupid, get over it" is being a bit naieve Harm. Many people are STILL fighting for their rights and to recieve the recognition they deserve. Or maybe we should all tell Hispanics to "get over it" and learn English, gays to "get over it" and forget about marriage, blind people to "get over it" and trust that when someone hands them a $20, it's not a $1, other disabled people to "get over it" and find their own way to drag a wheelchair up two flights of stairs, and women to "get over it" and go back to the kitchen. We cannot advocate that Blacks "get over it" and forget about racism, nor can we tell Indians to "get over it", forget about their land claims, forget about the BILLIONS of dollars of trust money the US government is still stealing, forget about their native religions (which are still discriminated against in some areas despite the Religious Freedom Restoration Act), and just assimilate already.