Resurrection from The Zeppo to Forever

[faeriegrrl27]

So, my boyfriend and I just watched Forever today, and he brought up a really good point. In Forever and several later episodes, a big deal is made about the seriousness of bringing people back from the dead and all that. Well, what about the gang from The Zeppo? They were *all* back from the dead and functioning just as they had been (presumably). So is that just a discrepancy or are there any theories as to why that might be? I think it'd be cool for there to be some mystical explanation, but I can't really think of one.

 

[Tome]

Hmm, good question. I remember how they said that Joyce could come back ''wrong''. But then, I just thought it meant she'd be a zombie, or something along that. Cause the guys in 'The Zeppo' were zombies. They acted like we'd have expected them to act when they were humans, but they were not really *alive*. On the other hand, for Buffy it was a completely different spell, considering Willow was much more powerful than Jack. She was a witch... As far as I can tell, Jack wasn't a warlock. Willow actually brought Buffy back to LIFE. And I'm guessing what Dawn attempted was something in between those two spells. It was never really clarified, though.

 

[The Unspoken]

Jack says that the spell required a specific alignment of the stars, for which he had to wait 8 months.
In 'Forever', you get to see Joyce's feet and her shadow through the window as she's walking towards them. Right as Buffy opens the door, Dawn cancels the spell and there's nobody at the door anymore.

 

[MRNewman]

As has been said - in The Zeppo they're zombie-like under very specific, mystical conditions, whereas the resurrection of others was body and all - whole people, no zombification. That's much more powerful magic.

 

[Kerri with a K]

I think the issue of resurrection is more complicated in the overall story. If you look at the episode the Zeppo, obviously Jack waited time and for the stars to align, etc before he could even think about raising his zombie friends. He may be an amateur, but he did say something about how his grandfather had raised him almost right away. Also, if you look back further, in Some Assembly required, the guy is running around like a zombie trying to find his perfect mate.

Fast forward a moment to season 6 where the Scoobies are bringing Buffy back. Clearly, there are consequences which only Willow seems to be fully aware of. Did she come back wrong? Maybe a little. She certainly wasn't herself, whether it be from the fact that she was ripped out of heaven, or just brought back period.

I think the rules of resurrection are unclear. People are still doing it. Amateurs. Those who do not understand the laws of the universe (even if it is Joss' universe) find spells or other methods to bring the dead back to life, and even though the Scoobies understand the consequences, I think it's more complicated than that.

OR, maybe it's just a continuity error throughout the series, but I have a feeling that Joss had more in mind later on.

You can even take a look back further, with Prophecy Girl. The Slayer died, and was saved, but when she came back the slayer line had already changed.

Resurrection has consequences, whether it be people coming back in zombie form and trying to blow up the school, or coming back wrong. I also think that within the buffyverse mythology there are many other belief systems, and even though the basic rules apply, not everybody believes in the same consequences.

Just a few thoughts...

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I actually think this is all explained very well.
The kids in the Zeppo are zombies, or zombie-like. They're destructive killers, anyway, that's the point. Spike explains to Dawn that resurrecting Joyce gets into "zombie territory." So yes, while it is completely possible to bring Joyce back, the concern is that she will not be herself; she will be a zombie, like the kids from the Zeppo. That's why, as tempting as it was to see her mother on the other side of the door, Dawn rips the picture and breaks the spell at the last moment. This is also why Tara can not be brought back.

It is also explained that supernatural deaths--ie those caused by magics, fall into a different category. Buffy is able to be brought back as herself because she was killed as a result of mystical energy, as Willow points out in Bargaining. Had she survived the mystical energy and been killed simply by the fall from the tower, they would not be able to bring her back.

This puts Buffy's death in Prophecy Girl in a bit of a shady area. The fact that the master kills her doesn't count as a mystical death alone--otherwise anyone killed by a vampire could be brought back as a non-zombie. Also, the draining of her blood alone didn't do it--it was the drowning, (ie non mystical). I think the only way to get around it is to say that while she was clinically dead for a minute, it was not long enough to register as a natural death according to whatever magic laws existed regarding resurrection spells. Just long enough to call Kendra, that's all.

 

[fly on the wall]

I actually think this is all explained very well.
This puts Buffy's death in Prophecy Girl in a bit of a shady area. The fact that the master kills her doesn't count as a mystical death alone--otherwise anyone killed by a vampire could be brought back as a non-zombie. Also, the draining of her blood alone didn't do it--it was the drowning, (ie non mystical). I think the only way to get around it is to say that while she was clinically dead for a minute, it was not long enough to register as a natural death according to whatever magic laws existed regarding resurrection spells. Just long enough to call Kendra, that's all.

This is my take on this:

Mystical deaths can be reversed by mystical means (resurrection spells).
Natural deaths can be reversed by natural means (CPR, medical intervention, etc).
Mixing the two is where you get zombies, or where it simply doesn't work at all.

Frankly, even though the zombies in The Zeppo were made to be humorous and light-hearted characters, the thought of Joyce coming back like them is terrifying, for the very reason that she is Buffy and Dawn's mother and means something to them, whereas the zombies were just comical secondary characters to aid Xander in some hijinks. So I don't think it's an inconsistency.

 

[Willow My Love]

I could make a point here, but I'd be saying everything that's already been said, expect for this: Willow points out in later episodes in season six that there are different kinds of magic. Different spells pull on different kinds of magics, right? She gets hooked on the black stuff and it gets a hold on her. But, as seen in Chosen, there's white magic too. I'm not saying that any resurrection spells were white magic, but maybe the spells that Jack and Dawn were using were a different kind of black magic.