Resurrections

[VisionGirl]

I am not picking on [MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION] (really, I'm not! 😉), but I was thinking about this after reading a post of his on a season 9 thread.

We Buffy fans often complain about Joss relying on the old "resurrection" storyline too much. And I admit that I have complained about it as well. But I was thinking about this: how many actual "resurrections" have we had? And I'm speaking of specifically a character who died, coming back to life. I'm not referring to ghostly appearances after the fact, flashbacks, or human characters becoming vampires.

So, honestly, we really only have 4 bonafide resurrections: Buffy, Angel, Spike, and Darla. Buffy died twice, although the death in Prophecy Girl shouldn't really have counted, she was revived by CPR not long after the fact. But it triggered the continuation of the Slayer line, so it counts in canon as a death. Obviously she was buried in The Gift and resurrected by Willow's spell. Angel was killed by Buffy and brought back in season 3 (by the PTB? Jasmine? who knows), although technically we never really did see him "die" (in quotation marks since as a vampire he's already dead). But still, it's considered a death by the other characters. Spike was "captured" into the amulet and delivered to W&H. And of course Darla is resurrected by W&H at the end of AtS season 1.

So, four. Four actual resurrections. Why are we complaining that Joss overuses this storyline? Is 4 too many in your opinion?

And just to head off any arguments, I didn't count: Jenny's appearances both as a hallucination to Giles & as The First to Angel; Joyce's almost-resurrection; the Mayor's appearances to Faith in her season 4 dream or as The First; any dead character's appearances as The First; Fred's death since it was not actually her who came back but Illyria who took over her body; Lilah's after-death appearance in Home; any characters who became vampires, since it is after all, a show about vampires; any comic resurrections (although we can certainly talk about them if you wish- the only one that really "counts" in my mind is Warren).

There you go- discuss amongst yourselves. 🙂 And please comment if I've missed any- I know you will. 😉

 

[Icarium]

So, four. Four actual resurrections. Why are we complaining that Joss overuses this storyline? Is 4 too many in your opinion?

Even one is too much in my opinion. It shows that the writers won't hesitate to bring a dead character if they find it necessary. It's a door you can't close once open. Btw, Angel wasn't killed by Buffy, he was banished to Acathla's realm, so he shouldn't count. His come back was incredibly lame but not really a resurrection.

the only one that really "counts" in my mind is Warren

Daryl from Some Assembly Required, the zombie-like gang from The Zeppo, The Master, the frat guys in Selfless, etc.

 

[VisionGirl]

Even one is too much in my opinion. It shows that the writers won't hesitate to bring a dead character if they find it necessary. It's a door you can't close once open. Btw, Angel wasn't killed by Buffy, he was banished to Acathla's realm, so he shouldn't count. His come back was incredibly lame but not really a resurrection.

I debated with myself about adding Angel, that one is questionable. However, Buffy did say that she "killed" him.

Daryl from Some Assembly Required, the zombie-like gang from The Zeppo,

I did not think about zombies. But if I'm going by "my rules" then zombies are akin to vampires, they don't "count".

The Master,

In season 8? Yes, you are right about that one, although I wasn't technically considering the comics (but I did say that you could mention it! 🙂).

the frat guys in Selfless, etc.

Yes, they would count, I forgot about them.

 

[brinkster130]

In general, I don't dislike resurrection storylines because they are over used; I dislike them because they are easy to use as a cheap plot device to bail writers out of having to commit to a certain story. If resurrection's become a common thing in any story then it lessens the significance of death.

 

[EVIL UU]

First of all, I hate it when writers resurrect the characters, the dead should stay dead. No, really. And I hate it even more when a character is resurrected because of, let's just say, non-plot reasons, like when they get their own spin-off. Or are moved to said spin-off because of fan love. Or when the show is not cancelled after all. Some thoughts about resurrections...

Buffy. OK, I can live with it, the show was meant to end with "The Gift", her death is a perfect, beautiful ending. "Oops, the show is not cancelled, we need to do something about the dead lead." And here's when it starts to suck, Buffy's trauma is caused by her getting torn out of heaven while the death and all the stress that preceded it ( she had a catatonic shock, for god's sake, she went through so much stress that her own, Slayer-enhanced body couldn't take it any more and basically told her to "sod off", in real world states like that are cured by doping the patient with drugs, and I mean drugs drugs, the kind of people take to get seriously high ) seems to be ignored. So much wasted potential. Imagine something like this - Buffy gets back, but she is wrong, not undead wrong, but more like feral, cave slayer wrong. She spends half of the season physically recovering, learning how to speak again, lacing her shoes, eating with cutlery, having nightmares and so on. What I'm saying is, I can be OK with resurrection, but it has to be worse than death, when you die and go back, you need to learn how to live again. Not how to roast burgers, god damn it.

Spike. Spike dies on Buffy. Period. And then in season 8 and also 9, he is back. Just like that. He should either STAY dead or stay with Angel, and be on Angel and Faith. It's so lame, his death and so called redemption becomes absolutely irrelevant. And cheap.

Warren. When the franchise creator admits that he forgot that the character actually died...I just, I don't know, I mean...SERIOUSLY?! Stuff like that makes me eagerly anticipate the reboot film...

Kennedy. I admit, I like Kennedy, she may be, all right, she is an annoying bitca, but she is an annoying bitca with a huge heart and she loves her girlfriend very much. She's also a really loyal soldier. Anyway, Kennedy died and was resurrected by Willow and it leads to...NOTHING. No character development, no plot importance, not even a talk with Buffy about being resurrected ( that could have been a start of a really interesting friendship, Buffy helping Ken cope with being alive... ) and the character practically disappears. Writers, really?

So, four. Four actual resurrections. Why are we complaining that Joss overuses this storyline? Is 4 too many in your opinion?

I do think so. I understand the reasons, but still. Resurrection sucks.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I'm actually not against bringing back characters once it's interesting. I felt resurrecting Buffy in season 6 was great, because it turned her into some kind of emotionally destroyed Slayer for the whole season, which made for good TV. Sometimes writers bring back characters just because they can and the stories are awful, those are the ones I have a problem with. Overall though, I don't have much of a problem with resurrections in the Buffyverse

 

[white avenger]

I am not picking on [MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION] (really, I'm not! 😉),

And I don't feel picked on. (Really. Well...no more than normal, anyhow. Sometimes I just don't get no respect) But I'm the old fashioned kind of guy, and when I'm watching a movie or TV show, or reading a book, when a character dies, no matter how important a part that character played in the story, other than a reasonable amount of flashbacks and voice-overs, they are gone on to whatever reward or punishment that they have earned in life. There shouldn't be any coming back from something like that. I can make an exception for some kind of miraculous recovery on occasion, but miracles like that aren't supposed to happen so many times that you actually begin to anticipate them automatically. (I'm still a little bit surprised that Jenny or Tara haven't made it back yet, but I still wouldn't be surprised to see either or both pop up at any moment, if only for a brief visit just to see how things are going for the Slayer and her crew)

In addition to all of that, in the case of resurrecting Giles in particular, I can only see harm coming out of it. Either we're going to have another character ripped out of heaven, or we're going to have a soulless zombie walking around because there's no magic left on earth powerful enough to re-install one. If this is supposed to be Angel's great gesture of atonement for the hundreds or thousands of lives lost because he agreed to join forces with Twilight, I can only say that, as far as I'm concerned, it's too little and too late. He went into the bargain knowing that lives were going to be lost. He agreed to it, he accepted it, and he took active part in it. It's too late now to yell "Do over!" (He's already done that twice, anyhow. Time for a new strategy, like, maybe, faceing the consequences of his actions. He's done the crime, now he needs to do the time)

I've never counted the actual number of resurrections that have occurred on the two series, but whether it be two, four, of forty, anything beyond one is just too many for my taste.

 

[Willow My Love]

What about Warren? Technically, he had to have died. He came back as the first, right? But Amy brought him back with her magic?

And I really, really hope they don't resurrect Giles. He died fighting the good fight, as he should have.

I didn't like the Darla coming back storyline, nor the Spike coming back one. Spike died heroically, I didn't want to see him come back. He had truly become a good guy in my eyes, then he comes back and he's Spike all over again, seemingly unchanged by what happened... I didn't like that. Too many people coming back from self-sacrificial deaths...

 

[dexeded]

I'm not going to count the traversty that was season 8, but I did hate the resurrection of Warren and the Master. It was really unnecessary, and just for the 'WTH' factor.

As for the show itself, I was okay with Buffy reviving by CPR (even if it was kind of a lame way to fulfill the prophecy while still living), and I unexpectedly liked her being brought back in S6, because it shows the consequences of bringing the dead back. It was the lowest point in her life, wishing for the heaven she'd been wrenched from, and a great storyline I didn't expect. One resurrection I firmly hated was Angel being brought back from Hell. I was so convinced that we were done with him (I'd only just started watching, and hadn't read any spoilers at the time), and then he came back and I was like 'Really? Really, writers?'. And I just can't live without Spike, so Spike's resurrection was A-OK in my book, but if it had been any other character resurrected from such a heroic death, I probably would have hated it. But as I said... it's SPIKE. So he gets a pass. And when I watched Angel, I had already forgotten all about Darla, so I was just 'meh' about her coming back. I don't know about the After The Fall comics, but I heard Wesley appears because he's bound to W&H or something, and that's the sort of thing I hate, even if it does sorta make plotty sense in context.

So I think the resurrections have been okay so far (but seriously, ugh to Angel--well, not the chara himself and what happened post-ressurection, but the fact that he was brought back, even if he did get good in the spinoff--and S8), but I wouldn't want to see any more.

 

[VisionGirl]

I don't know about the After The Fall comics, but I heard Wesley appears because he's bound to W&H or something, and that's the sort of thing I hate, even if it does sorta make plotty sense in context.

But he's a ghost, so I don't count that.

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

I didn't like the Darla coming back storyline, nor the Spike coming back one. Spike died heroically, I didn't want to see him come back. He had truly become a good guy in my eyes, then he comes back and he's Spike all over again, seemingly unchanged by what happened... I didn't like that. Too many people coming back from self-sacrificial deaths...

I disagree about Spike- while part of season 5 he was there for laughs and/or a foil for Angel, I do think there is some very good character development there. In contrast to your opinion, I think that we see very little regret over his past actions & ramifications of what it's like for him with a soul in BtVS season 7 (other than the craziness in the basement). Having him be with Angel gives him/us a good setting to deal with some of that (e.g. their discussion at the end of Damage, plus both of them dealing with their relationships with Buffy in AGIQ). He also gets to be a hero in his own right, rather than just Buffy's hero.