Riley and Buffy - Where does the blame lie?

Where does the blame lie?

  • I am male and I side with Riley

    Votes: 7 8.0%
  • I am male and I side with Buffy

    Votes: 8 9.1%
  • I am female and I side with Riley

    Votes: 15 17.0%
  • I am female and I side with Buffy

    Votes: 35 39.8%
  • I'm neutral

    Votes: 17 19.3%
  • I'm undecided

    Votes: 6 6.8%

  • Total voters
    88
I've discussed this topic several times with other BBers and have finally decided to make a thread out of it, because it's a subject we can never agree on: the breakdown of Riley and Buffy's relationship and their treatment of each other prior to that - and in particular, where the blame lies.

It takes two to tango.
 
S
StarSlayer
Yeah, but it only takes one to stop the dance.
NY State of Mind
NY State of Mind
i said the same line in a chat LMAO...good stuff :)
I feel like that's just a cop-out because you want to like Riley. There was no indication that Riley was doing what he was doing for her. Also... in what way can you twist cheating on her by getting suck jobs from vamp whores for her? That's ridiculous. Riley wasn't upset with Buffy for her own good. And if he was, he made no notice of it at all. Not even in his ultimatum speech.

How do you know whether or not I want to like Riley? And aren't your arguments also cop-outs because you like Buffy? Moving on...
I'm not justifying the cheating bit, that was obviously wrong. I'm justifying him wanting to be the one she can lean on and go to for emotional support. That's how a relationship works - no one should bottle everything up, that's why, you know, there's another freaking person in the relationship.
Riley was upset that he was being neglected and he had every right to. HOWEVER, Buffy keeping things to herself is unhealthy not just for the entire relationship, but for herself as well. Like I mentioned in my previous posts, we see later on in the season how Buffy even has a bit of a breakdown.
If I'm not mistaken, Buffy says or implies several times the blame lies with her (I think mostly in 'Intervention', when she questions her ability to love). This doesn't necessarily mean she was actually to blame of course, but we shouldn't dismiss it either.
 
Z
zobothehobo
I don't know whether or not you want to like Riley. That's why I said "I feel like" btw.
I think I covered most of my feelings on this in the Riley Finn thread. In this thread I suppose, it seems as though I'm siding with Riley but I'm merely defending him as he does tend to get most of, if not all the blame.

I don't actually like blaming anyone in this situation.

There are a few little bits and bobs that I wanted to quote from the thread.

Is Riley old fashioned? A little. Do I think he's a chauvanistic pig? Hardly. Do I believe Riley had an issue with Buffy being stronger than him? To a degree, but we have to look at this in context. I have no doubt that he loved being in charge when he was in the Initiative but I don't think being physically weaker than Buffy or even deferring to her, was the main problem. He lost everything in a relatively short space of time, his job, friend, world view, super strength, it's enough for anyone to struggle. Buffy began to get stronger but she also grew distant all the while Riley loses his strength and begins to focus (maybe a little too much) on the relationship.

It reminds me of the the successful woman who was really moving up in her career but puts in on hold to have kids and sees her husband move up the ladder she was. She's genuinely happy for him but it reminds her what she lost, or is losing.

Just to note here, I deliberately reversed the gender here to demonstrate this could happen with either gender. I understand Riley's plight, not as a man but as a person.

In all fairness, this would all be well and good but why does Buffy pull away from Riley? He believes because he's not strong enough for her and that is why he moves toward the crazed. People often go on about this, but they miss the point, his question for a long time is "Does she love me?"

This is another point I wanted to raise:

Quote: ....Of course she's not obligated to love him if she doesn't feel it. His ultimatum was never about "I'm in the right and you're in the wrong, so admit or I'm gone", it was "Love me or let me go" which when you think about it, is totally fair. Maybe Riley didn't explain it well enough

Actually an important question because the communication problem was the issue and yes Riley should get the blame for that.



because Buffy didn't get it until it was too late and most fans still don't get it.[/I]
 
SupportOGal
SupportOGal
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I'm female, and even though I can see both sides of this, I voted that it was more Buffy's fault than Riley's. I don't feel the need to go into the reasons since the other posters who agree with my POV have explained it very well. But I will also say that I think that this is the direction in which the writers intended: we see Buffy questioning her ability to love & her humanity throughout season 5 as she got more in touch with her Slayer-self. This is part of why she couldn't be open to Riley, but could with Angel.
 
I blame Riley and yes I am female although that has nothing to do with it. I hate him, in fact. He made a fool out of Buffy and disrespected her. I can't forgive him for that. It might be different if he had been sorry, but instead he blamed her and then gave her an ultimatum.

He was an insecure, arrogant, bullying, self-righteous assh*le who couldn't stand the idea that his girlfriend was stronger than him. I never felt bad for him and I never will. Despite his less than admirable traits, I liked him alright up until he started going behind Buffy's back and getting suck-jobs from vamp whores. There is no excuse for what he did. He blamed Buffy for his cheating. Give me a break.

I seriously hate Riley more each time I re-watch an episode featuring him. He'll do something decent, which will be promptly ruined by something completely moronic. He's a bully, cocky, macho, and patronizing. Yet, he can also be sensitive, genuine, and even admirable. In all fairness, the conclusion I've come to is that his character was just badly written. There's too many inconsistencies.

Riley ditched the Scoobies to go allow some vamp whore to get off on sucking his blood. That's not admirable or responsible or forgiveable. Then, he goes back to Buffy and spends a romantic night as if nothing is happening! UGH!

Riley even says that he allowed the vamp whores to bite him because it might help him "get" Buffy better - huh? He can't deal with the fact that she didn't need him. He is such a loser. Riley can't deal with a strong women, period.

You can't handle the fact that I'm stronger than you.

You clearly feel strongly about this so I'm reluctant to broach a discussion here but as I was reading your post it struck me how similar what Riley was doing in S5 was with what Buffy did in S6.

Both, in moments of desperation, isolation and disillusionment embarked on dangerous, violent and darkly sexual journeys in order to feel something, anything.

Were they bad calls? Absolutely. But I don't think it is right to hold Riley up as an example when he was clearly struggling, anymore than it would be right to make an example of Buffy.
 
I think Sam said it best, there are no bad guys in this. As I said, Riley's ultimatum was "Love me or let me go". If Riley was simply a douche, end of, then fine let him go, but if he's the love of her life, or at least could be, "Run, Buffy, run".
 
You clearly feel strongly about this so I'm reluctant to broach a discussion here but as I was reading your post it struck me how similar what Riley was doing in S5 was with what Buffy did in S6.

Both, in moments of desperation, isolation and disillusionment embarked on dangerous, violent and darkly sexual journeys in order to feel something, anything.

Were they bad calls? Absolutely. But I don't think it is right to hold Riley up as an example when he was clearly struggling, anymore than it would be right to make an example of Buffy.

The key difference between Riley in s5 and Buffy in s6 is that Riley and Buffy were in a relationship. Riley was so "desperate" to feel something from Buffy, and he decides the best way to do that is to go out and find vampire whores who appreciate him? Good call Riley because that'll really help the relationship. Riley struggled to feel something from Buffy, so he could feel needed. On the other hand, in s6, Buffy struggled to feel something for herself more so than anything else.
 
The key difference between Riley in s5 and Buffy in s6 is that Riley and Buffy were in a relationship. Riley was so "desperate" to feel something from Buffy, and he decides the best way to do that is to go out and find vampire whores who appreciate him? Good call Riley because that'll really help the relationship. Riley struggled to feel something from Buffy, so he could feel needed. On the other hand, in s6, Buffy struggled to feel something for herself more so than anything else.

It wasn't exactly like that though. Riley wasn't so much desperate to feel something from Buffy but desperate to understand what (he believed) she needed. And quite frankly I can't fault his motivation. If you are in love with someone you want them to feel the same way about you. He made a truly stupid move but the place he was coming from was very honest and vulnerable. And I can't fault him for wanting to feel needed either. If your in a relationship that's pretty important, IMO. Where Riley failed is not recognizing that he couldn't make Buffy feel these things if she didn't, he certainly couldn't make himself more "lovable" to her. That was his destruction; not seeing the relationship for what it was.

Who doesn't do that in their lives? Not just in relationships but anything at all. "Tomorrow will be different", "I'll change", "It will get better", "Next semester I'll do more"...he clung on to a sinking ship and it nearly drowned him. I just can't hold that against him, he had to go through it to know what he was doing was wrong.
 
I think that, ultimately, the blame for the break-up of Riley and Buffy has to be shared equally between the two. Both entered into the relationship wanting something that the other person simply couldn't give.

Let's start with Buffy. She had just left, or had taken from her, a relationship that was doomed from the beginning. She is the Slayer, Angel, soul or no soul, is a vampire. Sworn mortal enemies. To make it even worse, if they manage to overcome their differences and consummate their relationship, world destruction is narrowly avoided. Be that as it may, up until that time, Angel was the closest thing to a match, at least physically, that Buffy had ever known. But Angel, under very heart wrenching circumstances, decides to head for the bright lights and big city, putting Buffy and the temptation that she represented, behind him, at the end of Season 3. No surprise, Buffy, a normal, hot blooded young lady, decides the next year that what she needs is a normal, HUMAN boyfriend to snuggle with (I'm gonna skip Parker for the moment, but, rest assured, he will return momentarily) Enter Riley Fin, Iowa farm bot and assistant to Professor Maggie Walsh. Tall, handsome, friendly, very obviously interested, and, best of all, a normal human boy (this is before the big reveal in "Hush") Everything that Buffy could wish for, summed up in one single statement. "He's nothing like Angel." No superhuman powers, and no breakaway soul. Even after "Hush," Buffy is still working under the assumption that Riley is just a normal, if highly trained, human, with no chemical or electronic enhancements. Just what she wants. A normal boyfriend, and even better, one who could go Slaying with her.

And now, we look at Riley. Highly trained, supremely motivated. Dedicated. Devoted. All that he can be. Maggie Walsh's favorite assistant, and no doubt reminded of that by both her and his fellow commando's. Along comes this sweet, rather lost appearing blond freshman, obviously in need of a protector. Just look at how she fell for Jerko Parker's line (I told you that he would be back) Somebody like that definitely needs protecting, and Riley Finn has the perfect wing to tuck her under. Even after "Hush," he still thinks that, super strength and accelerated healing aside, he may not be her equal, but he's awful close, and, with a bit more training and experience, he's gonna get there, sooner or later. (Elite fighting forces, whether Army Special Forces, Marine Force Recon, or Navy Seals, instill that in their members.) Time goes by, and, not only does Riley NOT get closer to being Buffy's equal and protector, without his chip and mega-vitamins, he actually becomes LESS powerful than before. Riley is no longer all that he could be, he's less that he used to be. Dissatisfaction and bitterness ensues. He begins to become more and more demanding of Buffy's time, time that she doesn't have to give, and when he doesn't get it, he goes to someone who WILL give him time.

Buffy wanted Riley to be her normal, human, boyfriend, who just happened to be a demon fighter in his own right, and he wanted to be more than that. Unfortunately, he just wasn't capable of doing it.

Riley wanted Buffy to not only trust him as a lover and respect him as a fighter, but also to be looked upon as her defender and protector. Unfortunately, she couldn't do that.

Both Riley and Buffy entered into their relationship, or at least discovered it quickly thereafter, that what they had each wanted from the other just wasn't really there. To give both of them credit for the effort, both Buffy and Riley tried to fit into each other's life and to include them in their own, but, ultimately, it just didn't work out. Luckily for both, their affair ended with only pain and regret, not tragedy, death, and disaster. To Riley's credit, he did finally come to the same decision as Angel, if for completely different reasons. Neither man, because of either a cursed soul or physical and emotional incompatibilities, could give Buffy what she really needed when they were together. Only one man would ever be able to give Buffy everything that she would ever really need, and, though she had met him by that time, she had yet to see just what his potentials really were. That would come a couple of years later.

But that's a discussion for another thread.

But I will say this. I ain't talking about Parker.
 
NY State of Mind
NY State of Mind
Lmao on how you made it into a Spuffy defense
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
Love your post.
You clearly feel strongly about this so I'm reluctant to broach a discussion here but as I was reading your post it struck me how similar what Riley was doing in S5 was with what Buffy did in S6.

Both, in moments of desperation, isolation and disillusionment embarked on dangerous, violent and darkly sexual journeys in order to feel something, anything.

Were they bad calls? Absolutely. But I don't think it is right to hold Riley up as an example when he was clearly struggling, anymore than it would be right to make an example of Buffy.

I don't feel bad for Riley, sorry. I do feel bad for him in a way - in the sense that the woman he loved clearly did not love him back in the way he wanted. But in the end, he cheated on her, and then blamed her. I simply can not forgive that.

For the record, if we're comparing Buffy's treatment of Spike in S6 to Riley's treatment of Buffy in S5 - I don't blame Buffy for her actions in S6. She was depressed. Both her and Spike were to blame, absolutely. I don't see the two situations as similar as you do, though.

I just feel in Briley's case that if we have to chose someone to blame, it would be him. I beleive that Buffy gave hime everything she was capable of giving at that time. It was not her fault that she did not love him. You can not force love. I think that was supposed to be the whole "moral" of their story - that Buffy's plan to get a "safe" boyfriend backfired because she wasn't in love with him no matter how hard she tried. I don't doubt that she cared for him deeply (she showed that) but imo she was still grieving the loss of Angel and wasn't ready to be such a serious relationship yet.

I dislike Riely's character so obviously that has something to do with how I feel about their breakup.

Riley wanted Buffy to not only trust him as a lover and respect him as a fighter, but also to be looked upon as her defender and protector. Unfortunately, she couldn't do that.

This is a great point.
 
I blame Spike. Or rather the writers trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with the whoel Spuffy thing. I really don't think it's a coincidence that Riley's idiotic behaviour starts in the very same episode Spike has a wet dream about Buffy.

He was an insecure, arrogant, bullying, self-righteous assh*le who couldn't stand the idea that his girlfriend was stronger than him.

Why do people keep repeating that? Do you also think Riley is masochist too? If he couldn't stand the idea that his girlfriend is stronger than him Riley wouldn't have continued dating Buffy after Hush, period. And Sam Finn isn't exactly a weak woman either. Even after they broke up he still leaves Buffy to decide what do with Spike, instead of taking upon himself to protect her by dusting Spike. Yet somehow he can't handle strong women. Okay...

You know what? Maybe Xander can't handle them either? I mean, if we are ignoring the fact that all of his on screen relationships were with such women, we can apply this to Xander too.
 
Kana
Kana
Interesting parallel about Xander. I think that could be explored...but yeah Riley clearly states that her being stronger than him wasn't the main issue.
It wasn't exactly like that though. Riley wasn't so much desperate to feel something from Buffy but desperate to understand what (he believed) she needed. And quite frankly I can't fault his motivation. If you are in love with someone you want them to feel the same way about you. He made a truly stupid move but the place he was coming from was very honest and vulnerable. And I can't fault him for wanting to feel needed either. If your in a relationship that's pretty important, IMO. Where Riley failed is not recognizing that he couldn't make Buffy feel these things if she didn't, he certainly couldn't make himself more "lovable" to her. That was his destruction; not seeing the relationship for what it was.

Don't you think it would have been more productive to actually ask Buffy what she needed instead of jeapordizing their relationship on a hunch? (Buffy's screwed a vamp! Well, that's what she needs, then! Off I go to feel what she felt!") Or attempting to read her mind? Or comparing himself to her last boyfriend?

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------

I blame Spike. Or rather the writers trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with the whoel Spuffy thing. I really don't think it's a coincidence that Riley's idiotic behaviour starts in the very same episode Spike has a wet dream about Buffy.

What do you mean by this? Can you elaborate? It's not like Spike spilling the beans on Riely's nightly wearabouts brought Spuffy closer together. Quite the opposite. Buffy hated Spike for it.

Why do people keep repeating that? Do you also think Riley is masochist too? If he couldn't stand the idea that his girlfriend is stronger than him Riley wouldn't have continued dating Buffy after Hush, period. And Sam Finn isn't exactly a weak woman either. Even after they broke up he still leaves Buffy to decide what do with Spike, instead of taking upon himself to protect her by dusting Spike. Yet somehow he can't handle strong women. Okay...

I wasn't aware that people "keep repeating this." As far as I know, I'm one of the only fans around here who dislikes Riley with a passion.

I have to disagree. It's my opinion that Riley's insecurity with his relationship with Buffy had everything to do with his inferiority complex regarding her strength. That said, in the case of Sam, I'm not saying Riley didn't change. Maybe he did. Also, we don't know enough about the dynamics of him and Sam's relationship to really comment, imo.

You know what? Maybe Xander can't handle them either? I mean, if we are ignoring the fact that all of his on screen relationships were with such women, we can apply this to Xander too.

? What does Xander have to do with this?
 
G
GrrArghx
That's what I'm saying. He should've just talked to her instead of being a moron.
S
StarSlayer
You're not alone. I hate Riley with a passion too :)
I don't feel bad for Riley, sorry. I do feel bad for him in a way - in the sense that the woman he loved clearly did not love him back in the way he wanted. But in the end, he cheated on her, and then blamed her. I simply can not forgive that.

You view him paying to be bitten infidelity? I can't say I agree there but, hows ever.

As for him blaming her; it wasn't that black and white.

RILEY:...I wanted to know why Dracula and Angel have so much power over you.
BUFFY: (shakes her head) You so don't get it.
RILEY: I wanted to get it, Buffy. I wanted to get you.
BUFFY: So this is my fault? Hey, gee, Buffy's so mysterious, I think I'll go out and almost die. I think I'll go and let some other w... (She stops and looks down.)

RILEY: This isn't your fault. It's mine. I feel like hell for what I've put you through. (Buffy still doesn't look at him) It's just... (sighs) these girls-
BUFFY: Vampires. Killers.
RILEY: They made me feel something, Buffy. Something I didn't even know I was missing until-
BUFFY: I can't. I can't hear this.

Riley doesn't really blame Buffy but he does say that needing to understand her was part of the reason why he went down this path. In his mind he was trying to get closer to who she was. It was a really crappy way, mind you.

And lest not forget that Buffy admits to Giles a few episodes later that she wasn't there for Riley. That she shut him out. So, Riley isn't exactly without a point either.

On the issue as a whole, I'm neutral because I think the failure of the relationship was very much of both their makings.

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

Don't you think it would have been more productive to actually ask Buffy what she needed instead of jeapordizing their relationship on a hunch? (Buffy's screwed a vamp! Well, that's what she needs, then! Off I go to feel what she felt!") Or attempting to read her mind? Or comparing himself to her last boyfriend?

Yeah, I do. I've said several times that what he did was deeply stupid. He should have spoken to her but on the other hand, why was she not noticing his erratic behaviour? How didn't she notice the bite marks? How could she not see how deeply unhappy he was?

The whole relationship was mess of miscommunication.

I truly don't believe you can blame one more than the other.
 
Kana
Kana
Exactly. Riley blaming Buffy for his actions is simply not what happened. I can't believe people still misinterpret his words after all this time
white avenger said:
Riley wanted Buffy to not only trust him as a lover and respect him as a fighter, but also to be looked upon as her defender and protector. Unfortunately, she couldn't do that.
That's part of what makes me hate Riley. It's part of what makes me mad about Angel. After a certain point (I'm going to say when Angel went bad), Buffy stopped needing a "protector." Angel was in her life before and it took him a while to get used to that. But Riley was new to her life. She didn't need a protector when he met her. I get having no idea of that until Hush... but after Hush and Doomed... he still operated on the idea that Buffy needed protecting. She proved to him time and time again she didn't need his protection and instead of rejoicing and saying "My girlfriend can kick your ass!" He still operated under the delusion that that was a fluke. That she DID need his protection. Fighting a long side her wasn't an option for him. And then when he lost his super powers... fighting behind her was even more offensive to him.

Riley was jealous of Angel, though, back when he still had his super powers. Let's not forget in The Yoko Factor when Xander tells him about the curse. It's like he thought Buffy was a virgin before Parker (I know, she was pretty much a virgin before Parker because it had JUST be the one time with Angel... but still) He couldn't believe Buffy had been with another guy she actually had feelings for. I for the life of me cannot find a way to defend that in my mind. It's just too old fashioned and quite frankly stupid. And it's not just losing his super powers in season 5 that made him a jerk. He didn't believe in Briley then.

But in Riley's defense about the whole "she's stronger thing." At that point, I'm not sure it mattered who it was... but the fact Riley found someone stronger than him baffled him. I can sort of understand that because he was it in the Initiative. He was the obvious favorite and superior. It's hard to go from a place where you're superior to literally EVERYONE to an environment when there's someone right beside you who is obviously superior to you and everyone in the room, both of you included, know it. I'm not excusing Riley's behavior because honestly, I don't think it can be excused... But I do see why it's there. That doesn't make it any less Riley's fault though.

As I said before, Buffy is a strong individual emotionally. The way she deals with emotional stress is to not tell anyone or ask for help because that would make it so much worse. She would be admitting it was that bad. As someone who's had a parent that's very sick and who works very much like Buffy, I didn't ask for help. My house was a complete wreck, and I was failing out of my senior year of high school. But if I asked for help, dad would actually be so sick I couldn't handle it. I couldn't think that way. I could handle it myself. I could help my dad and it wasn't that bad. He was fine, just feeling a little under the weather. My friends all respected this and it was nice to know I had people to lean on even if I didn't want to. Especially when it DID get so bad I HAD to reach out for help. I truly believe if Riley had just held on and respected who Buffy was... when Joyce died, she would have leaned on him... even if just a little.
 
What do you mean by this? Can you elaborate? It's not like Spike spilling the beans on Riely's nightly wearabouts brought Spuffy closer together. Quite the opposite. Buffy hated Spike for it.

I mean that the writers decided to write off Riley in order to get to Spuffy and that's why Riley out of the blue decided to become suicidal ("Out of My Mind") or go seek vamp hos.

I have to disagree. It's my opinion that Riley's insecurity with his relationship with Buffy had everything to do with his inferiority complex regarding her strength.

Riley dated the strongest woman in the world for about a year. If anything her strength seemed to be a turn-on for Riley after the initial bewilderment. The first time we see them having sex, the scene is combined with another scene - of them fighting demons. It doesn't really get much clearer than that, really. Maggie Walsh is a woman too and Riley has no problem whatsoever being her subordinate. The idea that he needs to be in charge because he is a traditional man isn't exactly supported in canon. If anything, he behaves in more traditionally feminine fashion - he wants Buffy to share more info with him, cry with him, and so on. He doesn't have a life of his own in S5 and is clinging too tightly to Buffy - usually in fiction this role is played by female characters.
 
Kean
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brinkster130
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Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
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Riley dated the strongest woman in the world for about a year. If anything her strength seemed to be a turn-on for Riley after the initial bewilderment. The first time we see them having sex, the scene is combined with another scene - of them fighting demons. It doesn't really get much clearer than that, really. Maggie Walsh is a woman too and Riley has no problem whatsoever being her subordinate. The idea that he needs to be in charge because he is a traditional man isn't exactly supported in canon. If anything, he behaves in more traditionally feminine fashion - he wants Buffy to share more info with him, cry with him, and so on. He doesn't have a life of his own in S5 and is clinging too tightly to Buffy - usually in fiction this role is played by female characters.

Riley "dated the strongest woman in the world for about a year" before he had to accept the fact that, try as he might, he would never be her equal, let alone her protector. Also, sleeping with Faith in Buffy's body and her reaction to his declaration of love almost certainly didn't help Riley's feelings that she didn't really love him, no matter how much he tried to dismiss the idea intellectually. "I was making love to YOU, not her" pretty much summs that up. Maybe it was only a subconscious thought, but it was definitely there.

As for workink for a powerful woman before he met Buffy, certainly Maggie Walsh was a person of high rank and authority, but she almost certainly made it quite clear that, if anything should happen, she was depending on Riley to protect her from any Hostile Subterranean that might attack. Maggie's power never threatened Riley's self image as a man the way that Buffy's did, because, like her, he took the greatest pride in his PHYSICAL superiority over anyone else. Buffy burst his little bubble about that.
 
Z
zobothehobo
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StarSlayer
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It wasn't exactly like that though. Riley wasn't so much desperate to feel something from Buffy but desperate to understand what (he believed) she needed.

It was both. Yes, Riley said on some level he wanted to understand why Dracula and Angel had some sort of power over Buffy. But, at the same time, he did desperately want to feel something from Buffy because he felt something when he was with the vampire whores.

RILEY: No. On some basic level it *was* about me. My blood, my body. When they bit me ... it was beyond passion. They wanted to devour me, all of me.
BUFFY: Why are you telling me this?
RILEY: It wasn't real. I know, it was just physical. But the fact that I craved it ... that, that I kept going back ... even if it was fleeting, they made me feel like they had such... hunger for me.
BUFFY: And I don't ... make you feel that way? How on earth can you compare me to that? How can you tell me you understand what those vampires are feeling? You aren't a passion to them, you are a snack! A willing, idiotic snack.
RILEY: No, I know exactly what they feel when they bite me, because I feel it every time we're together. It's like the whole world falls away. And all there is is you.
BUFFY: And you think that I don't feel the same way about you? How dare you tell me what I feel?

And quite frankly I can't fault his motivation. If you are in love with someone you want them to feel the same way about you. He made a truly stupid move but the place he was coming from was very honest and vulnerable. And I can't fault him for wanting to feel needed either. If your in a relationship that's pretty important, IMO. Where Riley failed is not recognizing that he couldn't make Buffy feel these things if she didn't, he certainly couldn't make himself more "lovable" to her. That was his destruction; not seeing the relationship for what it was.

Who doesn't do that in their lives? Not just in relationships but anything at all. "Tomorrow will be different", "I'll change", "It will get better", "Next semester I'll do more"...he clung on to a sinking ship and it nearly drowned him. I just can't hold that against him, he had to go through it to know what he was doing was wrong.

Sorry, but I don't see Riley coming from a very honest and vulnerable position. The problem for me was he wanted to feel needed at a time where Buffy was dealing with more things than usual. She had her slayer duties and college studies, but her mom was also recovering from surgery and Glory was hunting Dawn. Buffy took on more responsibilities than ever before. And he feels left out? I just find that incredibly selfish. Give Buffy a break already.

And, Riley may have clung to a sinking ship, but he didn't do anything to help rescue it. He didn't discuss his feelings with Buffy, nor did he want to work things out after Buffy found out about his vampires fixes. Instead of taking responsibility for his own problems and vulnerabilities, he blames most of it on Buffy. He doesn't say, "I'll change. From now, things will be different. We can work this out." He says, "Unless you give me a reason to stay, I'm leaving." He wasn't willing to change. He believed Buffy was the one who needed to change, which wasn't the case at all.
 
P
prophecygrrl
Whoo! Team Buffy! :D
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zobothehobo
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SlayerOfVampyrs
Bree, you and your lawyering behind. I looooove youuuuu! ♥
Not to mention that Maggie Walsh was some sort of a mother figure to Riley (I haven't watched Season 4 in a while, but I do remember her calling Riley and Adam brothers, no?); by nature they are unequal. Inequality is not something they have to work through in that relationship. I don't think it's correct to compare her position with Buffy's.
 
Z
zobothehobo
[No message]
I am a female and I side with Buffy. Riley was very disrespectful to Buffy because he was always trying to be to compete with her on which one of them was stronger than the other when he took the stuff that gave him alot of strength in season 5, he was working with the Iniative (who were against Buffy), and he cheated on her with vampire prostitutes! Those are main reasons why I think he's a rude, selfish boyfriend. And I was glad when he left in season 5, because Buffy was already going through enough with Joyce being diagnosed with cancer and she didn't need to deal with anymore problems.
 
S
StarSlayer
I kind of wish Buffy didn't chase after him
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