Riley IS better then Angel/Spike!

[NY State of Mind]

Talking about Riley with a friend here on BB I discovered that Riley is more of a hero and champion than Angel or Spike will ever be.....Angel and Spike were worthless as humans and I believe if Riley was given either of those two abilities he would be better not to forget that hes the best for Buffy no matter and she doesn't deserve him after her stunts! Carry on.............

 

[Carrrrgh]

Omg finally you've seen the light!!!!!!!!

 

[Tome]

I approve of this thread.

 

[Buffy Summers]

I just think they needed to have given him a better end when he left the show the first time - his descent into "darkness" lol was beneath the character I thought.

🙂

 

[Taake]

I agree, I was never really convinced by his darker days or whatever you should call them with his vamp-chicks. But other than that I think he's swell, however I wouldn't say he's better than either Angel or Spike because they were 'worthless' humans I would just say that he was different. They're all heroes in their own right, but they're not following the same blueprint as they're vastly different and have all had vastly different circumstances to work with and against. There for I wouldn't say that either of them is better than the other, they've just all followed their own separate path.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I disagree. And not because of my Spuffy heart. For me, the question isn't who's better, the question is who's better for Buffy. And through the series, when we watched Riley (and Buffy), it was made clear to us, that they don't work as a couple. He wasn't what Buffy needed. That's what it was shown to us, that he's not the one for her.
I'm sure he can be a great boyfriend, a hero, a husband to someone else. But he's not what Buffy needs.

 

[Washburne]

Better in which way and for what? As someone fighting evil? As a boyfriend for Buffy? Or simple as a "good" human being?

Spike and Angel(us) are the "demon" version of William and Liam molded through centuries, curses and love. How should Riley's 25 (?) years compare to that. Having vampire strength don't make you less good or bad. It's how you use what you got that counts.

I'd guess I like Riley more than the average fan of the show and he gets a lot of crap he's not deserving but him and Buffy never really worked together. No matter who you want to blame that on.

 

[PassionBecoming]

I saw this thread and jumped with glee!!

While I do love Angel and Spike, I definitely agree with this statement. I didn't take this as a "who is better for Buffy", but who is a better person in general. I don't think any of the three is very good for Buffy for different reasons; I also liked all three with Buffy for different reasons.

To me, Riley is the most honest/selfless. He fights evil and helps others because he truly believes in that cause and that it's the right things to do. (As opposed to trying to right past wrongs or to get the girl. Not saying I don't like that the other two are doing it, it's just for less noble reasons.)

@NY State of Mind - For this you get: GO YANKEES! (Oh, dear goodness...)

 

[sisterofmercy]

As a man, Riley was better than both Angel and Spike I think, but that doesn't mean he wasn't incredibly dull as well 😛 It was good to see a contrast between Buffy with the vampires and then with a nice, normalish guy and it was probably what she needed at the time, but in terms of entertainment value he doesn't sustain my attention at all.

 

[FaithsFollower]

I don't think this is about who is better for Buffy, because if it were, the three stooges [Spike, Angel, and Riley] wouldn't compare. 😉

But yes, Riley is better than both Spike and Angel combined. For one thing, he's warm so he's easy to cuddle up to. 😉 For another, he can totally party in the sunlight. 😛

No, Riley is better because he understands the human psyche a lot more than Angel and Spike. Sure, Angel and Spike have been around longer than Riley but it all boils down to this: they are just demons inhabiting dead bodies. They don't think like a regular human [anymore]. Okay, sure, they both haved souls but still. That's my thought.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I like Riley a lot. He's certainly better than most humans. But better than Angel and Spike? I don't think so. But you do--I'd be quite interested to hear why! Each of the three of them were on very, very different journeys. The each experienced different challenges and responded to them in their own ways. All three of them are heroes, absolutely. They all overcame darkness in one way or another. But to say that Riley is the best is simply a matter of taste.

As for the notion that Riley is a better human being than Spike was? Pah! Ok no really, again, I'm curious as to why you think so. William was a perfectly wonderful man--loyal, loving, and honest. I'd say the two men actually shared quite a lot of their most positive characteristics. Had Spike he been exposed to the same circumstances as Riley, he could have been just as much of a hero as a human, as Riley was. You can't really compare Spike's upbringing and circumstance to that of Riley's. So again, to say that one is better is a matter of taste. Both were very good men.

 

[kittenpoker]

Interesting thread! While I don't agree that angel and spike were worthless as humans, I definitely don't think they were the heroes that riley was. Liam, though extremely self absorbed and kindof a woman chaser and a drunk, definitely showed a spark of *something* - some deeper quest of his soul, when his eyes lit up as darla told him about all the places she'd been.... you could see there was more to him then that just hadn't been expressed yet. And William, he has the soul of a poet, but lacking any self confidence and strength, yes he comes off as rather well, sad?

But riley.... he accepted buffy for who she was right from the beginning, even though everything she was about (asking questions, not following orders- just for the sake of following them). He wasn't threatened by her. Not even by her being a better fighter than he was. That to me shows huge strength of character.

And of course, he was strong enough to remove the chip even though it had rendered his body paralized (mind over matter!).

So, yes he was much more of a hero as a human than angel or spike.

I am curious how he would have been as a vampire.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I just think they needed to have given him a better end when he left the show the first time - his descent into "darkness" lol was beneath the character I thought.

🙂

Definitely... The writers almost completely ruined the character, just so they could bring Spike in. Blech.

 

[Ripper666]

well I completely disagree! I don't like Riley, sometimes he is even ridiculous! I think what did he missed in his relationship with Buffy? Don't missunderstand me I like the figure (not his character) and I think he was a good friend for Buffy(maybe the best?) but I also think that it is his fault that the relationship was going down! I can't understand his reasons to go and that's why I hate him definately more than Spike or Angel whose reasons I think are ok!

 

[Abbeycat]

I've heard this for long time and I kind of believe it. And I've said this on BB radio J4, that Riley was just too good for Buffy and that's why they didn't work out. Spike & Angel had dark pasts or use to be bad.

I agree with what some said, Riley's ending was bad. The ultimatum that he gave Buffy. And than returns for one episode.

And I don't disagree. Riley is better than Spike & Angel in many ways. But I also think Spike & Angel have come along way even though they weren't great as humans. Honestly, I don't know how different Riley would be as a vampire. He may remember he was the best for buffy but as a vampire, he may not be the best for Buffy. He'd be different. It wouldn't be like Riley being a vampire with a soul like Angel.

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 PM ----------

... or I could be totally missing the point. It seems to happen sometimes.

 

[BuffyElevated]

This thread isn't about who is a better boyfriend for Buffy.... Unless I misread the original post, it's basically comparing Riley to Liam and William. If that's the case, then Riley is 100% a better man than either of them ever were in their human lives. Riley was a true hero who did what he could to fight the demons, even though he had no "special" powers... For me, it was his loyalty, wisdom, and strength that were his special powers. He only did what he did for those vamp hoes because Buffy shut him out. Everyone has the basic human need of feeling wanted and loved by someone. If that makes Riley less of a man in anyone's eyes, I'd say they're holding him to a rather unfair standard.

 

[PassionBecoming]

This thread isn't about who is a better boyfriend for Buffy.... Unless I misread the original post, it's basically comparing Riley to Liam and William. If that's the case, then Riley is 100% a better man than either of them ever were in their human lives. Riley was a true hero who did what he could to fight the demons, even though he had no "special" powers... For me, it was his loyalty, wisdom, and strength that were his special powers. He only did what he did for those vamp hoes because Buffy shut him out. Everyone has the basic human need of feeling wanted and loved by someone. If that makes Riley less of a man in anyone's eyes, I'd say they're holding him to a rather unfair standard.

I can't rep you again, but YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kean]

OK, here's the thing: I love Riley. Genuinely, sincerely love the character. I think he had more depth, wit and heart then he will ever be given credit for. He is, without a doubt, an incredible man and unquestionably the one character in the verse I would actually want in my life. In sum: I'm a fan.

However, to compare him to Angel (and Spike, although I really have nothing say on him) is like comparing apples to oranges. Their lives and what they have done are so vastly different, so completely on different planes of existence from each other, that I really don't think they can be compared.

And as far as Buffy goes, they were terribly suited as a couple. Having heartbeat doesn't make him better for her. And to forget, she isn't right for him. She never gave him what he needed. No more than he gave Buffy what she needed.

What I would say, from what I saw of them in S6 (and S8), is that they seem to be great friends who have a supreme love and trust for one another. And it excels in its platonic nature.

So basically, I don't think we can say who is better, after all, how do you really determine the measure of a man?

 

[caritas08]

I'm sorry, but even if Riley's insecurity about Buffy being the hero and extreme neediness didn't bug me, I would never be able to forgive him for cheating on Buffy with vampires while her mother was going through cancer, sneaking out of Buffy's bed one of the many nights Buffy opened up to him in a way she hadn't been able to with anyone, and then giving her an ultimatum immediately afterwards allowing her no processing time for what had just occured. Spike and Angel are not my ideal boyfriends either but neither one of them ever betrayed her in the way that Riley betrayed her and there is no excuse for his behavior.

 

[brinkster130]

Spike and Angel are not my ideal boyfriends either but neither one of them ever betrayed her in the way that Riley betrayed her and there is no excuse for his behavior.

Really? Between the two of them they tried to kill her, killed friends, tormented her and her loved ones, tried to rape her and called her degrading names. Those were all betrayals.

I don't see how Riley letting a vamp feed on him is any worse than what the Angel and Spike have done.