Risky Business

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sisterofmercy

Ray of Sunshine..
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Sorry, I couldn't think of a better title.

What do you think was Joss' most risky plot/idea in Buffy and Angel?

Not just the thing that shocked you but the thing that made you question whether it was really a good idea. Also, do you think it worked out?
 
For me I would have to say it was Dawn and The Initiative.

With Dawn just popping out of no where and being like "Buffy My Sister~!" was quite confusing in the beginning and made me question weather it was something that was really needed or should have been added at all.

The Initiative is another thing. Adam being created by Professor Walsh was a huge iffy thing for me. It felt so...cliche with it all and how it was done. A secret government facility inside of a house/dorm (or whatever it was) which lead to a secret underground basement with this HUGE secret area.

Just my opinion~
 
Without a doubt, having the Slayer fall in love with a vampire, soul or no soul.

Followed by having one of the featured regulars engage in a gay relationship, and actually depicting it in such a loving, healthy way.
 
I'm now imagining Angel sliding through a hallway in nothing but his boxers, shirt and socks...thank you for that image (sw)

I think that Buffy's downward spiral and the whole Spike mess of S6 was the biggest risk and I really don't believe it worked or paid off. At all. A shocking revelation from me, I know. 😛
 
R
randiann
And now i'm imagining the same thing....my day just got loads better!
white avenger said:
Followed by having one of the featured regulars engage in a gay relationship, and actually depicting it in such a loving, healthy way.
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Yes. That could have put off the sponsors, there could have been Christian Fanatics boycotting the show, and Joss could have been forced to kill one of them, or make Willow "find God" and renounce her "experiment" with homosexuality and become a nun. Instead it was beautiful and nearly perfect, without resorting to sleeze.

I remember hearing Dr. Laura Schlessinger (right wing radio talk show host) talking about Buffy and her "gay friend" and questioning what kind of "message" it was sending to young women. Whatever bitca....
 
The AR. It leads to so many emotions, of many kinds. It was something really extreme in order to get Spike to do the next extreme thing (the soul). It could have (and maybe did) made many Spuffies jump the ship, which is the most popular ship in the verse along with Bangel. Joss risked the ship that might lead fans to even leaving the show. Which as I said, many fans are Spuffies. He could have lost some of them by creating this scene. It was also something we never thought would happen on BtVS.
 
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dexeded
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I think making Willow gay was one of the biggest risks he took. And I'm so glad he did, Tillow is my OTP, and it was just portrayed in such a beautiful way, and I'd love to have something like that with another person.

Also the dark Buffy storyline in season 6. However, unlike Kean, I think it was not a fail, and gave a lot of insight into her. While I don't necessarily like Spuffy anymore, I think season 6 was the season that took the most risks, some that didn't really work imo (drugs=magic), and some that were astounding (depressed Buffy)
 
W
Willow-Tree
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I thought this was about the Tom Cruise movie... I was about to go "Seriously, people?" LOL

Definitely Dawn in Season 5. I remember reading the spoilers in the Buffy magazine and going "What?! How is THAT going to work?!" and thinking Joss had lost his mind. And then I saw the season and went "Ohhhhh" and was like "Joss is brilliant!"
 
"Earshot" was sort-of a risky storyline after the fact, since it was completed before Columbine happened. However, school shootings had occurred well before Columbine, just not on that scale (that is, far fewer deaths). I think that the issue was handled well in that episode, and was definitely not exploitative, seeing as the episode was not even about school shootings (at least not directly). And I'm not sure about risky, but "Gingerbread" was rather bold to spotlight murdered children (and again handled well).
 
I think it was the Tillow relationship. Although I love it, I'm afraid it did cost the show viewers. I'm glad he did it and it was groundbreaking but I do remember the uproar when it happened. Even my sister, who normally loves gay relationships in media, didn't like it because she loved Oz so much and didn't think it was believable that Willow was "gay all along" and not bisexual. She likes Tara's character but she still doesn't find Willow's sexuality realistic.

The second most risky thing I think Joss did was exiting Angel, Oz, Cordelia and Faith all in the same season. Not to mention all the familiar sets (Buffy's house, the library, Angel's mansion, the high school). Season 4 had very little familiarity about it and I know a few people who quit watching during Season 4 because it "didn't feel like the same show anymore." Although I grew to like Tara and Anya, I really missed the old characters, sets and group dynamics of the first three seasons and it wasn't until Season 5 that I started enjoying the "new BtVS".
 
As far as over all series arcs go the Dawn story-line was very risky and had big potential to become a very corny, and very jumping the shark moment. However even people who hate Dawn continued to watch the show, so I would have to say that it worked. Having Willow be gay was also very risky and I think it worked. Killing off the main character three times (if you include the Wish) and bringing her back from the dead twice was also very risky and obviously worked out very well. The problem with this question is that Joss and company were never adverse to taking risks with the show, there is a fair argument to be made was having a show called Buffy the Vampire Slayer and expect anyone to take it seriously was the biggest risk.

As far as individual eps go: Hush, having almost thirty minutes with no dialogue? The Body, such a stark and surreal episode about a loved one dying? Once More With Feeling, are you kidding me just having a random episode that was a musical and have it fit in perfectly with plot? Yet these three episodes get more attention then any others outside of fandom.

If you think about it, it might be easier to answer what plot or storyline was the least risky or safe.
 
I think Giles puts it best: "A vampire in love with a Slayer. It's rather poetic, in a Mauldin sort of way." It was risky, it was potentially cliche. But it translated into one of the most beautiful and dynamic stories on the show. It paved the way for other impossible seeming romances on TV and even in movies.

A human group of big bads was also very risky. Its easy to have demons be the villain. Its much harder to have them be three seemingly regular guys with a dangerous taste for power. To me they're the most frightening baddies because that scenario really could play out in the real world.

The musical episode was also a very crazy idea. At the time that medium was pretty much untouched, it could have totally crashed and burned but to my understanding its one of the most popular Buffy episodes to date.

Goby said:
I remember hearing Dr. Laura Schlessinger (right wing radio talk show host) talking about Buffy and her "gay friend" and questioning what kind of "message" it was sending to young women. Whatever bitca....
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha bitca!!! Best Xander moment EVER.
 
caritas08 said:
I think it was the Tillow relationship. Although I love it, I'm afraid it did cost the show viewers. I'm glad he did it and it was groundbreaking but I do remember the uproar when it happened. Even my sister, who normally loves gay relationships in media, didn't like it because she loved Oz so much and didn't think it was believable that Willow was "gay all along" and not bisexual. She likes Tara's character but she still doesn't find Willow's sexuality realistic.
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I very much agree! I did enjoy the beautiful love between Willow and Tara, but it always had me going WTF when they were trying to make it clear that Willow was gay instead of bisexual. No matter what anyone says, Willow more than just loved Oz; she was in love with Oz, and those feelings still lingered a bit upon his guest return.
 
-The infamous AR
-Willow's sexuality
-Hush
-OMWF
-Restless
The last three didn't make me question whether it was a good idea, but they were high risk/reward episodes to undertake in the first place. I was unsure of the Willow-is-gay storyline because I couldn't buy that she was just gay and not bisexual, because I love Woz.
 
I'm gonna shock everyone by agreeing with Kean here 😉 (*gasps from the crowd* This never happens.... no wait a minute...)

Kean said:
I think that Buffy's downward spiral and the whole Spike mess of S6 was the biggest risk and I really don't believe it worked or paid off. At all. A shocking revelation from me, I know. 😛
Click to expand...

To me season 6 in general was a big risk and Seeing Red was just... no. Shouldn't have gone there.


Oh and OMWF was a big risk too! But that one certainly paid off 🙂
 
For Buffy (Risks that were actually fails)

The whole....Buffy downfall and Spike/Buffy "relationship" (If you can even call it that...And if you can, it certainly wasn't a healthy one by any means...) in season 6. That was a risk. And it failed. Hard. Failed harder than Kate Hudson's new romantic comedy, and that, my friends, is failing pretty damn hard.

Dawn. I mean..really? Just...Really? I've hit a point where I really LOVE Michelle Trachtenberg to bits, but I still can't get behind this storyline.

Dawn ending up NOT being special in the first place because for whatever reason Buffy's blood was able to close the portal that only THE KEY was supposed to be able to do. Despite my love for the episode, and the fact that Buffy's death, overall, was very touching...No one will ever be able to convince me that was a good storyline.

The Ubervamps in Chosen. It was like you put this giant army against these fluffy bunnies...And we were supposed to believe they were at some giant risk? Psh. Just no.

For Angel:

Do I even need to type this one? I think we are all under agreement that Cordy possessed/sleeping with Connor/alltheothercrap was just...beyond risky and terrible.

I think it actually may be tied with teenage/adult Connor and Holtz coming back from the hell dimension.

Risks that were successes for Buffy

Angel leaving in season 3. It was a massive risk, having someone who had been with us since the beginning leave the show. Took away our 'safety blanket,' so to speak. And it was executed beautifully.

Risks that were successes for Angel

Darla's pregnancy. Huge leap, but it ended up being a great storyline.

Bringing Darla back. Ended up being absolutely brilliant and beautiful. Brought about some fantastic episodes. Julie Benz and Darla are both wonderful.

Doyle's death mid-season 1. Such a shocker, such a risk...But I don't think it could have possibly turned out better in the end.
 
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I seem to be the complete oddball when it comes to Buffy season 6 (quite frankly, I like it like that 😉) but in my honest to Joss opinion, I loved Buffy's unhealthy relationship with Spike, and her depression throughout the season was one of the best arcs the show has done. Not only because it showed us a different and necessary side of Buffy, but because it was done so realistically. I've felt exactly like her at one point in time, and it isn't some quick process. You're up, you're down, you get up, you fall back down again. It showed the drawn out and painful process, and it worked beautifully IMO. If Buffy had came back from a heavenly place, and was the same, quippy, happy go lucky Buffy we knew before, I would've been more disappointed in that than anything else.
 
D
dexeded
honest to Joss XD
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