Romance?

[Nothing13]

Well, Dru did have a certain nutty attraction in a "This is a terrible idea, but I am still tempted..." way.

Although that may be just me...

😀

No......... it's on the same level of people that put their sexual fantasies on JM. It would be better no sexual fantasies on characters, no romance. I don't see how people can criticize fans that put their sexual fantasies on JM and want another show to put their own sexual fantasies on other characters....
Same reasoning level of:
-Spike is a killer .....a murderer......he ruined the morality of the show.
-Anya is my favorite character and i don't care if she ruined the show and the morality of main characters
........very low level




By the way, instead of romance, imagine putting the show in a totally new and realistic way 🤣 :
The first episode, a smart vampire/demon, etc explains clearly and objectively to the new Slayer that humans are scientifically primates, like humans kills animals another specie kills humans, human extinction would be useful for the planet and all the human moralities she has been indoctrinated are bullshits. She (since, she is the heroic main character, and she isn't a hypocrite like the rest of humans) changes the idea about her "mission" and let vampires and demons kill humans like humans kill other animals, that would be something really new and more realistic.

Obviously, this will never happen on tv show and movies🤣
The problem is also people prefer to consider more seriously political and religious bullshits instead of historical and scientific facts. As a matter of fact, it's interesting how the vast majority of people take more seriously "the value of human life" propaganda instead of simple scientific facts as "humans are animals" etc

 

[NileQT87]

Romance and the attraction to it is human nature. It is one of the most popular forms of drama for a reason. It has been part of storytelling since historical record began and will continue to be until the end of humanity.

This idea that it's passé, something wrong for YA audiences to even be exposed to (protect the children! coddle them like babies!) and no longer relevant for the modern viewer is INSANE.

My god, this purity culture/puritanical morality police crap needs to die an excruciating death. It's the death of storytelling.

 

[Nothing13]

Romance and the attraction to it is human nature. It is one of the most popular forms of drama for a reason. It has been part of storytelling since historical record began and will continue to be until the end of humanity.

This idea that it's passé, something wrong for YA audiences to even be exposed to (protect the children! coddle them like babies!) and no longer relevant for the modern viewer is INSANE.

My god, this purity culture/puritanical morality police crap needs to die an excruciating death. It's the death of storytelling.

Outside the bullshit rant about the purity culture/puritanical morality you are talking about. That rant is funny to read 🤣

In reality, there may be 2 different approach to the show: a more serious and horror show without romance (or minimal part) like other horror tv show, or the drama with romance, it can be okay (but not based on triangles and toxic relationships like Btvs)

Since there are many genres and not all the genres should involve romance, It would also be possible to create a new show based on more horror elements and not romance, and it would be more serious than teen dramas of vampires typical of young girls or lonely women. People can choose the genre they prefer (horror or romantic drama etc). Like fact that you are a fan of romances like Buffy-Angel and want to defend what you like.


Yes, Btvs was a show based on romance and the new show will also be based on this. I just hope it would be more realistic, less triangle and less abusive/toxic relationships, since almost all the relationships in Btvs were toxic and abusive. However, writers could also totally change the genre of show in a horror depiction (it will never happen).

 

[NileQT87]

I've literally discussed that we need more supernatural/basic genre show plotting than we got in the comics. I've also written quite a few recent posts about which villains would work and how the new cast needs to work up to hanging with the level of some of the more powerful returning characters.

And I've most certainly talked about needing a balance between a whole bunch of different elements, including romance but not limited to.

Another would be not going overboard with the Buffyspeak comedy quips and to balance it out with the tears and trauma (numerous comments on this forum about how posters ridiculously want the new cast shielded from that!) that often were preceded by whiplash-causing lighter moments or events that were too good to be true! Everyone is getting together at last! Perfect happiness! Oops. We've got Angelus. Puppets! Cavemen vs. astronauts. Blood splat. Fred's dead. That's the formula.

Family is another topic I've been going on about, including because of the situation with Buffy now having none biologically that can return unless she's given a new one (which might also fill out the new generation cast), not to mention that one of her friends can't return either. Yes, I'm a Bangel, but I also care about protecting Angel's own storyline (and AtS even existing) actually belonging to him (the Shanshu) instead of being handed off to anyone else despite all the other prophecies that ran alongside it that pointed directly at him (not to mention Darla and Connor). And I also don't really want to see Buffy having had a horrible 20+ years (lots of mentions of her being given a dystopian Logan mindset) before meeting this new Slayer protégée. A very easy fix to that is simply her being a mom now, which might lessen a tiny bit of the blow that Dawn and probably Xander are going to have to be dead.

It's a fact that things like seeing romantic relationships as a key part of the shows' formula and that the original shows had a lot more relationship dynamics than just "found family" (platonic friendship) have become controversial statements for some reason in this fandom. There are some that seemingly want core parts of the original shows entirely eliminated for the younger set of characters because any such storylines are apparently not appropriate anymore for characters in the YA age bracket (and not even just the infamous immortality age gap discourse--the umbrella is growing wider than that!).

This show should be TV-14 just the same as the original. The original was not for babies and this one can't be either. But there's a very wide gap between depicting the new Slayer in a larger-than-life romance with her own supernatural lover (which I'd prefer NOT to be a third vampire with a soul), even one who might be or has been a villain at some point, and degrading sexcapades that are miserable for the actors to shoot.

There are some that think that any "problematic" relationships or characters (which would be any flawed, imperfect character making mistakes, seeking redemption or atonement--themes that are at the heart of the original franchise) shouldn't exist and certainly shouldn't sully the new lead, because we are apparently enlightened now and only bad people like Joss Whedon would write such things.

The rant about purity culture wasn't really bullshit or a joke. Ever been on Tumblr? Scratch that. Ever read Boom!'s take on rebooting BtVS with all the supposedly "problematic" bits excised from the original?

Death of storytelling.

 

[Cohen]

Yes, Btvs was a show based on romance and the new show will also be based on this.

Was it based on romance, though? I mean, yes, there are romantic elements and subplots, but would it be fair to characterize the show as based in romance? In contrast, look at a show like The Vampire Diaries. This show is specifically set up to be about the romance between Elena and Stefan, later the triangle between Elena, Stefan and Damon, and finally the romance between Elena and Damon. With other romantic entanglements that ebb and flow, and different "big bads" of each season.

While I would agree season 2 and part of 3 is heavily involved in the Bangel plot, and season 4 got sidetracked by the Buffy/Riley plot, I don't necessarily agree the show was based on romance. The show was based on horror and heroine, with romance as a dramatic tension. As @NileQT87 pointed out, romance is used as a plot device dramatic tension between characters, but I would disagree that the premise of Buffy is based on Romance.

 

[Nothing13]

Was it based on romance, though? I mean, yes, there are romantic elements and subplots, but would it be fair to characterize the show as based in romance? In contrast, look at a show like The Vampire Diaries. This show is specifically set up to be about the romance between Elena and Stefan, later the triangle between Elena, Stefan and Damon, and finally the romance between Elena and Damon. With other romantic entanglements that ebb and flow, and different "big bads" of each season.

While I would agree season 2 and part of 3 is heavily involved in the Bangel plot, and season 4 got sidetracked by the Buffy/Riley plot, I don't necessarily agree the show was based on romance. The show was based on horror and heroine, with romance as a dramatic tension. As @NileQT87 pointed out, romance is used as a plot device dramatic tension between characters, but I would disagree that the premise of Buffy is based on Romance.

I think it is a teen drama with romance as the core. Btvs isn't a horror show, it is a fantasy teen show with romance being the core of the show. The show used monsters as metaphors of growing up from high school until college/start adulthood with jobs. It was more ridiculous than horror, romance was a big part of the show with all the soap opera and the toxic relationships of characters. For example, in season 2 the main villain was the boyfriend of Buffy and season 7 it was her "boyfriend" again that saved the day, Season 6 it was her Willow that become the "Big bad" after her girlfriend was killed.
Romance and the relationships of characters were the deep core of Btvs also with the growing up themes, the fantasy elements were just an external facade.

 

[Cohen]

I think it is a teen drama with romance as the core. Btvs isn't a horror show, it is a fantasy teen show with romance being the core of the show. The show used monsters as metaphors of growing up from high school until college/start adulthood with jobs. It was more ridiculous than horror, romance was a big part of the show with all the soap opera and the toxic relationships of characters. For example, in season 2 the main villain was the boyfriend of Buffy and season 7 it was her "boyfriend" again that saved the day, Season 6 it was her Willow that become the "Big bad" after her girlfriend was killed.
Romance and the relationships of characters were the deep core of Btvs also with the growing up themes, the fantasy elements were just an external facade.

Romance was a plot device, but not the driving factor of the show. The main premise of the show is "one girl in all the world born with the strength and skill to fight the vampires, demons, and forces of darkness; to stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their number". The premise was not "Slayer loves Vampire". Or "slayer is looking for love". Romance was used as a plot device to show the isolation of the slayer, but it was not the main driving force of the show.

 

[Taake]

Outside the bullshit rant about the purity culture/puritanical morality you are talking about. That rant is funny to read 🤣

We don’t call others opinions or posts ”bullshit”, please post with more care and civility on these boards. Your points could’ve been made, and better, without the insult.

 

[NoShip]

Romance was a plot device, but not the driving factor of the show. The main premise of the show is "one girl in all the world born with the strength and skill to fight the vampires, demons, and forces of darkness; to stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their number". The premise was not "Slayer loves Vampire". Or "slayer is looking for love". Romance was used as a plot device to show the isolation of the slayer, but it was not the main driving force of the showi

I agree with this for S1 thru S5.

S6 was Marti Noxon's and she had some different ideas. While romance was sometimes used to show the isolation of the slayer; In S6 and S7, romance was the main driving force for a majority of the show.

 

[Nothing13]

In S6 and S7, romance was the main driving force for a majority of the show.

Like seasons 2-3 weren't based on romance🤣

Seasons 6 and 7 were literally the reverse of Seasons 2 and 3 with the main focus Buffy-Spike and Buffy-Angel, for example:

Season 6

1. Season 2 - Angel turned Angelus, abused and stalked Buffy, and she fought and killed him, Season 6 - Spike (without a soul) and Buffy abused each other, and Spike (without a soul) tried to rape Buffy.

Season 7
In Season 3, Angel returned "crazy" to Sunnydale from a Hell dimension and Buffy must help him, restarting a sort of "relationship" with him. In Season 7 Spike returned "crazy" to Sunnydale because of the soul and Buffy must help him, and then she restarted a sort of relationship with him.

Season 2 was the season based on Buffy-Angel relationship and Season 7 was the season based on Buffy-Spike relationship and the final moment Buffy-Spike in Chosen was the culmination of their relationship in Season 7, as the final moment, Buffy-Angel in Becoming Part 2 was the culmination of their relationship in Season 2. Both Angel and Spike died in relation to Buffy, but in a reversed way:

• Angel got killed closing the Mouth of Achatla (the "Hellmouth") and went to "Hell"
• Spike died closing the Hellmouth of Sunnydale and got "divinized/sanctified"

Ending of seasons:

• Season 1: Buffy died
• Season 2: Angel died
• Season 3: Angel went away from Sunnydale
• Season 5: Buffy died
• Season 6: Spike went away from Sunnydale
• Season 7: Spike died

Writers basically recycled the storylines about the relationships of characters

Also, the other relationships: Willow-Oz and Xander-Cordalia replaced by Willow-Tara and Xander-Anya

The only season that wasn't really focused on romance was season 1, but the fantasy elements were a covering for the growing up metaphors of high school with high school relationship drama.

And the sort of romance that was not remotely romantic.

Are you talking Buffy and Spike supposed romance? I think so .....but they weren't were the only romance of season 6-7.... Anya -Xander??? Ah .........a murderer (Anya) with the moral Xander (that date a killer, laugh to her jokes and preach morality to others and no one question it🤣) .........oh yes.. let stupidity take the lead instead of logic🤣

By the way, all the relationships in seasons 6 and 7 were related to each others, for example:

The main couple Buffy and Spike with:

1. Xander-Anya
2. Willow-Tara
3. Faith-Robin Wood

1) Xander-Anya
-In season 6 both Xander and Buffy broke up the relationship with Anya and Spike, Anya and Spike were got depressed and comfort each other "cheating" on Xander/Buffy. Xander and Buffy instead of being indifferent, were hurt by this event.
-In season 7 Xander/Anya and Buffy/Spike tried to resume their relationship but it ended with Spike and Anya dying in Chosen.

2) Willow-Tara
-In season 6 Spike/Buffy's relationship based on sex addiction was symbolically linked to Willow's addiction to magic. This addiction was bad for Buffy and Spike and also ruined Willow's persona and her relationship with Tara. The culmination of these problematic relationships was in the episode "Seeing Red" where Tara got killed and Willow turned Dark Willow because of her magic addiction, and Spike trieed to rape Buffy.
-In season 7 Willow trieed to restart her activity with magic but she was afraid of it like Buffy and Spike were afraid of their relationship, however, all characters during the season overcomed these problems and reach the next stage: the "divine level" (according to the show representation):

• Willow in Chosen got "divinized" in her relationship with Magic
• Spike in Chosen got "divinized" in his relationship with Buffy

3) Faith-Robin Wood
Both Spike and Robin had a problem with their mothers because of trauma during their past years. Robin Wood searched a girlfriend like his mother (Nikki a Slayer) because of psychological problems like Spike's search for a girlfriend like his mother Anne.
Robin dated, in the beginning, Buffy, and after Faith, 2 Slayers, because subconsciously they remind him of his mother Nikki, a Slayer. Spike was subconsciously attracted by Buffy because she remained his mother Anne.
Spike's women in his life/unlife are symbolically related (Anne-Drusilla-Buffy):

• Drusilla and Buffy's birthdays are on the same date: January 19
• Spike mother's name Anne is the same as Buffy's second name: Buffy Anne Summers

Faith replaces and compensates Nikki to Robin like Buffy Anne Summers replaces Anne to Spike in terms of emotional need.
At the end of Season 7, Spike-Anya-Tara (the lovers of the main characters) died or are died and Robin Wood almost died.

 

[nightshade]

We've gone rather off topic, it seems we've forgotten that we're discussing the new show rather than the old one.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Let it not be said that a threesome needs that human element, and if we can say that, let it be said that a good threesome (?) should be, in the new series to have a comedic element.
So, may the threesome involve the dead Darla - Drusilla and Harmony, a comedic element might be ramped by Spike's occasional bumping into them, accidental like.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Simple Question: Should the new slayer be concerned with a romance/love triangle? Are romances/triangles played out in 2025+?

This is a hard question to answer! It seems like it'd be unavoidable to not have Buffy have a romantic interest - this is TV after all, and romance is entertaining.
Should she be concerned with it? Definitely not, lol. But will it happen? Likely.
As for if love triangles are played out - it doesn't seem like it! If we're talking vampire shows, True Blood, TVD and Twilight had them galore and were successful and kept fans interested.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

To be fair, I thought the series captured the spectrum of teen romance sufficiently. Sure, Buffy was in the weird arguably toxic but ratings grabbing relationships, but the others really weren't. I would expect the next series to be the same, with Buffy struggling with adult relationships, and the kids dealing with how to establish emotional intimacy and connect with anyone in a world that seems more isolated than ever.

Eh, Buffy was a genre straddler. Yes, technically speaking, horror is literature that seeks to invoke a sense of the sublime, and Buffy never really works at that.

 

[hoponlilmama]

This is a hard question to answer! It seems like it'd be unavoidable to not have Buffy have a romantic interest - this is TV after all, and romance is entertaining.
Should she be concerned with it? Definitely not, lol. But will it happen? Likely.
As for if love triangles are played out - it doesn't seem like it! If we're talking vampire shows, True Blood, TVD and Twilight had them galore and were successful and kept fans interested.

But for others it's not the love triangles that keeps people coming back. They're drawn out and boring. I did watch TB but I found that constant flip-flopping between Bill and Eric mostly got on my nerves. I'd like writers and studios to buck the trend and give audiences something different.

Spoiler

Also, Eric for the win! Or could've stuck to the books and Sookie ends up with Sam.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

We have had human romances and threesomes, then there were vampire romances and while most have been successful a threesome might be pushing the bounds of the viewers interest.
So how about we give it a novelty factor, how about a long term werewolf romance?

 

[NotASlayer]

This is a hard question to answer! It seems like it'd be unavoidable to not have Buffy have a romantic interest - this is TV after all, and romance is entertaining.
Should she be concerned with it? Definitely not, lol. But will it happen? Likely.
As for if love triangles are played out - it doesn't seem like it! If we're talking vampire shows, True Blood, TVD and Twilight had them galore and were successful and kept fans interested.

From my understanding - I have not watched those three, so this is based entirely on second- and third-hand impressions - they were, unlike Buffy, intended from the start to be paranormal romances; that was their fundamental role with any other factors being secondary.

Buffy, on the other hand, was intended to be a paranormal hunting show. The monsters were there to be killed. I believe that not even Angel was originally intended to be a vampire (as a side note, for a revival, a similar figure could, perhaps, be an immortal monster hunter of some, non-vampiric, kind). This is undoubtedly why, in comparison to others with vampire paramours, Buffyverse's walking corpses are, by lore, utterly unsuited to being love interests.

Other vampires use glamours and can pass for human, often after feeding, having or gaining heartbeats, being body temperature and gaining skin colour. Buffyverse vampires are pallid, room temperature monstrosities lacking a heartbeat who do not use glamour on their victims to hunt them and which would be very disturbing to be with, and which turn permanently monstrous over time. Their lore makes them completely unappealing as love interests and in reality (yes, I used "vampires" and "reality" together) just about anyone would recoil from them.

There is also the fact that without Vampagra, Buffyverse male vampires are, by lore, kind of lacking in, ah, the ability to, um, perform...

 

[NileQT87]

And this is why I lament Angel's Eternity dialog being cut where he explained to Rebecca how vampire biology isn't science, but metaphysics.

Demon parasites animate their human hosts' corpses by magic.

Vampire hearts are shrunken walnuts next to desiccated, deflated lungs (we've seen into Angel's chest cavity in Ground State). Blood isn't pumped by the heart at all anymore. Blood seems to bypass the vestigial human organs entirely and is instead part of a digestive process for the demon.

Given the state of his lungs, Angel's statement of having no breath is correct (despite a lot of antis not realizing he is 100% correct and dumb complaints about actors having to breathe), even if it doesn't make scientific sense for vampires to be able to talk or smoke. It appears to be something that can be feigned to deceive during the hunt and not give away their unnerving inhumanity, but they don't actually need to. Angel says exactly this to Connor. And for ensouled vampires, it would be to comfort those around them. And of course, Angel being at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean for a summer (and unlike Stefan's copycat version, he wasn't drowning over and over because there's no actual breathing) only hammers home the point.

Their being room temperature/cold to the touch adds to the idea that they're dead human bodies. One of Angel's quirks is how frequently he takes very hot, steamy showers. He's also shown enjoying the feel of warm clothes from the dryer. Feeling cold inside (along with his organs not being used in addition to being cold inside when that tree demon tries to use him as a feeding source) is something he mentions quite a few times, both literally and figuratively (dead and hopeless inside). And of course, it's one of the things that tips off Ford that he just shook hands with a vampire.

I should also mention that other sci-fi/fantasy franchises don't shy away from these sort of inhuman physiological traits that make them unlike the humans around them. Temperature comes up with Spock (Vulcans run hot) and the Doctor (lower body temperature, though more obscure!).

The same with their ability to have sex, even if they're not life-giving vessels in either a procreative sense (hence many a fanfic referring to "cold, dead seed") or a birthing one (this limitation of physiology was also an issue for Darla). Connor is the famous exception that broke the rules via the life granted in the Trials (definitely one of Jasmine's henchmen). This also adds an element of demonic perversion that allows these inhuman monsters to do more harm (of a sexual nature) than merely killing and feeding. These vampires absolutely do use their intact sexuality as both a seduction technique and yet another form of evil to inflict upon their victims.

Again, it's all metaphysics (magic).

Drugs and even caffeine have physical effects, but there is no nutritional value to food. Spike seems to like various food textures and Angel is shown drinking black coffee (doesn't look too pleased about cinnamon in his blood, though!), but it's canon that they really can't taste or appreciate anything outside of blood. I Will Remember You explores that. They're somewhat closer to Anne Rice's creations in this regard, except without the total inability to consume non-blood things and the newly-risen vampires not having to expel all their waste upon waking (it's a thing!). Kind of makes you wonder about Spike and all those Weetabix and bloomin' onions.

I otherwise agree 100% about Joss Whedon intentionally making his vampire species something monstrous that was not meant to be desirable. Whedon was adamant that he hated "that Anne Rice crap", then ended up with copycats of her archetypal lineup. Yep, the whole Fanged Four are bits of Louis, IwtV!Lestat, retcon!Lestat, Gabrielle and Claudia. The Master even is like a cross between Nosferatu and Akasha.

You can very much tell that he was still pulling for Xander to be the male lead (turning it into the nerdy everyman's fantasy of getting his fantasy dream girl, rather than the heroine being the one to get her fantasy instead!) by how he was presented in the unaired pilot vs. Welcome to the Hellmouth. Xander is the character who got replaced as male lead, which certainly adds an additional layer to Nick Brendon's bitterness.

David Boreanaz did in fact film his part as the mysterious guy on a motorcycle staking a vampire outside the auditorium in the full 45-minute episode that was cut down into a 25-minute presentation, and it's telling that he's one of the portions Whedon chose to cut for his studio presentation that was then rejected (because it was just plain bad and amateur with the big Willow recast needed). Most of the earliest scripts (check the dates!) written were the ones without Angel or ones where Angel was inserted in later drafts, either as an appearance or mentioned in dialog. It appears that Angel's rise to romantic lead was very late in the process, as well as the decision to make him a vampire. Do note that this had been decided pretty obviously by the time they were filming (the first episode filmed was Witch!), as Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest and the major rewrite on Never Kill a Boy on the First Date have blatant hints at him being a vampire with biting and damnation jokes. The Pack also hints at him being other than human--something dark and dangerous at that. Him being used in contrast to both Xander and Owen in those pre-1x07 episodes were all later writing additions.

David Greenwalt was the one responsible for creating the mythology for why Angel was different from other vampires and had to persuade him to include the character (with cheerleading for the Angel character and casting coming from Gail Berman, Marcia Shulman and the WB wanting the romance). Though yes, they did toy with him being something other than a vampire. Originally he was just a mysterious messenger who was going to give Buffy information and go away. They also toyed with him being an actual angel.

Greenwalt is the one who came up with the soul and gypsy curse mythology that persuaded Whedon why this one and only vampire was different from all the others in a mythology where it was designed to be impossible for romanticized vampires to exist and who would otherwise remain monstrous creatures lacking all humanity. They weren't the human whose body was stolen, but the thing that killed them.

Most of the changes to the vampire and Slayer mythology rules from the 1992 film were just to hide Angel's secret identity for seven episodes and so the Scoobies didn't have to clean up human-looking corpses, but also ended up resulting in vampires with fanciable human faces (with morphing prosthetics borrowed from The Lost Boys) that also worked against Whedon's intent for unambiguous monsters! The difference between demons became really more down to the personality and memories of the human being perverted (no matter how good they were in life), but that line between man and monster was never intended to be blurred. Whedon thus still got his stake fodder who thought only with their stomachs and were allegories for coming-of-age challenges, but the WB backed by several writers and producers got their epic romance to hype to viewers, which was the vast majority of the promotional material. The viewers outvoted Whedon utterly.

And if you bring up the Spike wrinkle, think of how Lie to Me completely falls apart as an episode if Ford is correct about achieving immortality for the human. This is why the writers had to make Spike do something so terrible that the only way he could come back from it would to essentially commit suicide and live vicariously by putting William back in the driver's seat. This was actually seen by the writers as a failure on their part to have an audience believing any vampire could be good or love (what was really obsession being confused for it) without a soul. Long before Marti Noxon fetishized James Marsters to an unprofessional degree, she actually had been instrumental in writing a lot of the romantic material (for several relationships) that Whedon had initially been quite uncomfortable writing at first.

All of this makes it very unlikely for there to be a third vampire with a soul, no matter how tempting an addition it would be for the sake of it being the romantic staple that the franchise is known for.

I should also mention that the Buffyverse never actually had a Bangel vs. Spuffy love triangle occurring simultaneously, unlike Twilight and The Vampire Diaries. It's telling that Joss Whedon described those franchises as "Choosing Boyfriends: the Movie". The majority of any love triangle happening was actually when both Bangel and Spuffy were over and Angel and Spike had just each other to bicker at. While there were love triangles of a sort with Xander and Riley, it was more a realization that, for Buffy, there was no triangle and they were never in the running at all. Bangel and Spuffy were very much in isolation from each other except for the haunting of relationships past.

As for the love triangle with Gunn and Wesley in regards to Fred, realize that it really had nothing to do with a love triangle at all. It was all about isolating Wesley from the entire group one by one in order to carry out the Connor kidnapping plot with only Holtz to turn to. Billy existed to push Fred away from Wesley (she was initially attracted to Angel). Cordy, of course, got sent to Mexico with Groo (which also acted to isolate Angel in a way that paralleled him to Wesley being the ones looking in on others' happiness--so beautifully depicted with Wesley being the only one to notice that Angel is the only one hiding in the shadows while everyone else is hugging in the sunshine). Frunn thus only was created to isolate Wesley for that one plot. But Fred was indeed inching towards Wesley before Billy spooked her off, and then Professor Seidel ended Frunn. And then, of course, Wesley went down a very self-destructive path. Fresley essentially existed only as a precursor to destroying Wesley completely with Illyria. Note that Illyria came about not because of Whedon's treatment of female characters, but actually his favoritism of Amy Acker. That was all about showing off the range of one of his favorites.

 

[Nothing13]

Again, it's all metaphysics (magic).

It's not only all metaphysics. Simply writers didn't even think enough about these problems (like the problems of vampires that shouldn't have erections, smoke etc); the metaphysics is partially a convenient answer since they didn't even think the division of science and metaphysics, and didn't establish a consistent and coherent lore and mythology for vampires, magic, and other supernatural elements. Everything changed from seasons to seasons just for the sake of plot convenience.

Also, what science we are talking about? What science are we referring to? Are we talking about the scientific level of elementary school or that of the 18th century? ........where humanity didn't even recognize that humans are primates, nor did we understand our role as predators in ecosystems or consider humanity as an invasive species. Where no one questioned the problem that as humans kill and predate other species, other species (scientific of metaphysical) can kill or predate humans? The concept of humanity as the "center" of existence or value is deeply anthropocentric and biased—similar to depicting God as a white male figure.

Who decides which aspects of science to adhere to and which to ignore? Is it based on convenience or personal biases? For instance, if one were to cling to the outdated notion of anthropocentrism, they might argue that humans are the most important species in the universe and, consequently, endorse geocentrism. Why don't vampire TV shows ever place Earth at the center of the cosmos? Or follow other outdated scientific ideas? Why are there no stories where the heart, rather than the brain, is portrayed as the center of thought and consciousness, as was believed in ancient times?




By the way, it would be better for shows like Btvs/Angel to establish a consistent lore from the start. Hope the new show will be more coherent in its lore and mythology though this might be challenging, given that writers must navigate the inconsistent lore of the Buffyverse, which changed from season to season, or even episode to episode.

 

[NoShip]

This is a hard question to answer! It seems like it'd be unavoidable to not have Buffy have a romantic interest - this is TV after all, and romance is entertaining.
Should she be concerned with it? Definitely not, lol. But will it happen? Likely.
As for if love triangles are played out - it doesn't seem like it! If we're talking vampire shows, True Blood, TVD and Twilight had them galore and were successful and kept fans interested.

The show should never be completely lacking in romance. I think what we are discussing is a continuum from all romance all the time to no romance ever.

In S1 to S5 the struck a decent balance, but, after Noxon took over, the show focused way too much on the romances at the cost of so many aspects that made Buffy great.

I hope the current team keeps everything in perspective and we get the horror adventure comedy romance coming of age stories that we are all looking forward to.

For some reason, a group of writers believed that Buffy needed a "love interest" each and every season. And that love interest had to run a big chunk of the season. I don't think the writers wrote romance well