Romancing Cordy

[Wesley Pryce]

It has come to my attention that there are some fans who would rather Angel and Cordy had stayed friends instead of becoming romantically involved. With that in mind,if the writers had not put Angel with Cordy(which never really happened anyway) then who would you have liked to see Cordy with in a romantic relationship? Personally I'd like to see Cordy with Gunn,i think it would've been interesting. Tell me what you think. 🙂

 

[Blaze]

My OTP for Cordelia is Doyle, it's the only person on AtS that I can see her with.

 

[white avenger]

Too bad she wasn't here in Season 5. Bust think of the Cangel/Spordy (Coke?) debates that we could have had.

Anyhow, I think that Angel and Cordy made a great couple with great potential for a romantic relationship. There's nothing wrong with best friends becoming lovers, if the writers hand properly. And it would be a relationship between a man and a woman, not a man and a teenager (I know, Buffy and Cordy are supposed to be the same age, but can anybody deny the fact that Cordy was much more mature in Season 2 than Buffy was on her show before the last season, if then?)

 

[VisionGirl]

Doyle first and foremost. I loved their bickering and he absolutely adored her. I would have liked to see his character develop and I think that her admiration for him would've grown too. I know that some people may make this comparison, but I think it would've been very different from Xander. As I said on the other thread, I don't mind the Cangel friendship evolving into a romantic one, if it had been handled better. They mean/meant so much to each other.

Wouldn't it have been interesting if they had developed Cordy and Wesley in a way that would've brought them closer?

 

[thetopher]

Too bad she wasn't here in Season 5. Bust think of the Cangel/Spordy (Coke?) debates that we could have had.

Anyhow, I think that Angel and Cordy made a great couple with great potential for a romantic relationship. There's nothing wrong with best friends becoming lovers, if the writers hand properly. And it would be a relationship between a man and a woman, not a man and a teenager (I know, Buffy and Cordy are supposed to be the same age, but can anybody deny the fact that Cordy was much more mature in Season 2 than Buffy was on her show before the last season, if then?)

Why must every female be somehow romantically linked with Spike? 🙄

I honestly think Angel and Cordelai were better as friends, and I'm not saying that as a Bangel, their chemistry was more geared that way. (Though I did like the 'You're Welcome' kiss, I think that overall their S3 romance was badly handled.)

Cordelia with Doyle was very nice to see, and I actually think Cordy and Wes could've had something, I mean that chemistry they had on Buffy must've gone somewhere.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I must admit, in "Waiting in the Wings", we get a good idea of what a Cordelia / Angel pairing would look like. Every bit as sexy as vampires are supposed to be.

 

[white avenger]

Why must every female be somehow romantically linked with Spike? 🙄

You keep rolling your eyes like that, you're gonna get a headache.

But, it's a perfectly logical assumption that, knowing how competitive Angel and Spike are for their women (Dru and Buffy that we know of, and I have little doubts that Darla got into the act occasionally when Angel wasn't around) why should Cordy be the only exception?

(And, no, I am NOT saying that the only reason that Spike was interested in Buffy was just to steal Buffy. Obviously, Spuffy was just Buffy coming to her senses)

 

[thetopher]

You keep rolling your eyes like that, you're gonna get a headache.

But, it's a perfectly logical assumption that, knowing how competitive Angel and Spike are for their women (Dru and Buffy that we know of, and I have little doubts that Darla got into the act occasionally when Angel wasn't around) why should Cordy be the only exception?

(And, no, I am NOT saying that the only reason that Spike was interested in Buffy was just to steal Buffy. Obviously, Spuffy was just Buffy coming to her senses)

Yep, S6 was all about Buffy 'coming to her senses', was that one of the big themes of the season? I can't remember.

Angelus and Spike were competative about Dru, not Angel, so your logic/reasoning doesn't stand.
Also Spike fell in love with Buffy entirely independent of Angel, they're not even on the same screen with Buffy after 'Lover's Walk'. (Where Spike mocked them both at every oppurtunity, no competativness there.)

And Darla having a thing for Spike? Where are you getting that from, mostly what I got from Darla about Spike was contempt. After all, he butchered that gypsy family before they could (maybe) undo Angel's curse, I can't believe she was best pleased about him after that.

So Buffy is the only girl they've fought over, I don't see Cordelai giving Spike a second look. 🙂

 

[white avenger]

Yep, S6 was all about Buffy 'coming to her senses', was that one of the big themes of the season? I can't remember.

Angelus and Spike were competative about Dru, not Angel, so your logic/reasoning doesn't stand.
Also Spike fell in love with Buffy entirely independent of Angel, they're not even on the same screen with Buffy after 'Lover's Walk'. (Where Spike mocked them both at every oppurtunity, no competativness there.)

And Darla having a thing for Spike? Where are you getting that from, mostly what I got from Darla about Spike was contempt. After all, he butchered that gypsy family before they could (maybe) undo Angel's curse, I can't believe she was best pleased about him after that. So Buffy is the only girl they've fought over, I don't see Cordelai giving Spike a second look. 🙂

Buffy didn't tell Spike that she loved him until Season 7, when he had a soul. Season 6 was forgiven and forgotten, as far as Buffy was concerned.

Someone, especially a soulless amoral vampire, wouldn't have to be in love with someone to have sex with them. True, it was Angel-US who was competitive with Spike concerning Dru, but, from the conversation that they had about, "Yeah, I guess it was you she was thinkin' about all those times..." sounds like they, or at least Spike, were still competitive as far as Buffy was concerned.

Spike didn't kill the Gypsy to keep him from undoing Angel's ensouling spell, he did it because he was drunk and wanted a snack. His attitude when he came out of the wagon made that pretty clear.

And Darla wouldn't have to have a "thing" with Spike any more than Faith had a "thing" with Xander. Darla could have been in the mood, Spike would have been there, available, (maybe with Dru to make it more interesting) so, why not? As human, Darla was a prostitute. If anyone saw sex as a recreational activity, it would have been her. And I never said that it was a certainty, only that I had little doubt that it could have happened.

And as for Cordy "giving Spike a second look," well, maybe she wouldn't. But it wouldn't be the first time we've had a discussion here about the merits a canon relationship vs a non-canon one.

 

[thetopher]

Buffy didn't tell Spike that she loved him until Season 7, when he had a soul. Season 6 was forgiven and forgotten, as far as Buffy was concerned.

Someone, especially a soulless amoral vampire, wouldn't have to be in love with someone to have sex with them. True, it was Angel-US who was competitive with Spike concerning Dru, but, from the conversation that they had about, "Yeah, I guess it was you she was thinkin' about all those times..." sounds like they, or at least Spike, were still competitive as far as Buffy was concerned.

Spike didn't kill the Gypsy to keep him from undoing Angel's ensouling spell, he did it because he was drunk and wanted a snack. His attitude when he came out of the wagon made that pretty clear.

And Darla wouldn't have to have a "thing" with Spike any more than Faith had a "thing" with Xander. Darla could have been in the mood, Spike would have been there, available, (maybe with Dru to make it more interesting) so, why not? As human, Darla was a prostitute. If anyone saw sex as a recreational activity, it would have been her. And I never said that it was a certainty, only that I had little doubt that it could have happened.

And as for Cordy "giving Spike a second look," well, maybe she wouldn't. But it wouldn't be the first time we've had a discussion here about the merits a canon relationship vs a non-canon one.

Spuffy started in S6 though, I don't see how that is that Buffy 'coming to her senses.' And also, Buffy told Spike she loved him, but he didn't seem to believe her.

Anyway, the point is we're talking about rivalries here, as in some sort of relationship.
Sure Darla might've given Spike a whirl or two, but I think Spike loved Dru far more than Angelus loved Darla, and I'm not sure Angelus would've cared who Darla was seeing on the side.
Angelus sleeping with Dru was at least partly motivated by just messing with Spike's head/establishing the pecking order.

Again, I only see the Spike/Angel romantic rivalry thing happening with Buffy, she's kinda unique that way.

You seem to be saying that Spike would go for Cordelia just to screw with Angel, if you think that, you have a lower opinion of ensoulled Spike than I do.

I think Spike is fairly consitent is his affections for Buffy...Harmony not-withstanding. 🙂

 

[white avenger]

Spuffy started in S6 though, I don't see how that is that Buffy 'coming to her senses.' And also, Buffy told Spike she loved him, but he didn't seem to believe her.

Anyway, the point is we're talking about rivalries here, as in some sort of relationship.
Sure Darla might've given Spike a whirl or two, but I think Spike loved Dru far more than Angelus loved Darla, and I'm not sure Angelus would've cared who Darla was seeing on the side.
Angelus sleeping with Dru was at least partly motivated by just messing with Spike's head/establishing the pecking order.

Again, I only see the Spike/Angel romantic rivalry thing happening with Buffy, she's kinda unique that way.

You seem to be saying that Spike would go for Cordelia just to screw with Angel, if you think that, you have a lower opinion of ensoulled Spike than I do.

I think Spike is fairly consitent is his affections for Buffy...Harmony not-withstanding. 🙂

Actually, Spuffy started in the Bronze the first moment that Spike laid eyes on Buffy, just like Bangel started the first moment that Angel laid eyes on her. James played it that way from the very first, by his own statement.

As far as "rivalries" between Angel and Spike, they don't actually have to exist to be debated. Fuffy has been the subject of more than a few debates here, as it compares with Bangel, Spuffy, or Briley.

I haven't said that it actually Coke actually exists, or ever would. I only said that the subject could be debated.

Just like we're doing right here and now.

 

[thetopher]

Actually, Spuffy started in the Bronze the first moment that Spike laid eyes on Buffy, just like Bangel started the first moment that Angel laid eyes on her. James played it that way from the very first, by his own statement.

As far as "rivalries" between Angel and Spike, they don't actually have to exist to be debated. Fuffy has been the subject of more than a few debates here, as it compares with Bangel, Spuffy, or Briley.

I haven't said that it actually Coke actually exists, or ever would. I only said that the subject could be debated.

Just like we're doing right here and now.

Yeah, I've heard that argument. The problem is when Buffy and Angel meet for the first time, there's mutual attraction, right from their first meeting. Buffy says Angel's tall, gorgeous...annoying, and Angel fell for her from the off.
Buffy doesn't seem to feel anything but hate for Spike until S5, 'Intervention', and certainly nothing like attraction until S6, so it's like saying that Willow/Xander ship started in S1 when Willow says that she finds Xander attractive, and no S3 when they kissed.

Debating's fine, but some evidence would be nice. And, although there's plenty of evidence Fuffy isn't actually an 'official' ship (I can admit that much), it exists because of onscreen chemistry between the actresses (which is way stronger than say, Briley) and because Eliza played that attraction up for all it was worth, (plus a couple of the writers added the subtext), we can only debate wheter Buffy was attracted to Faith or not, but the evidence is there.
I mean, I could debate that Faith and Cordelia could have a thing for each other, but since they're barely onscreen together and I see zero evidence of anything, its kind of hard to debate. Same with Spike/Cordelai.

Again, I get that Spike/Angelus had a rivalry over Dru, and that the same, now ensoulled pair had a romantice rivalry over Buffy, it doesn't follow that Spike would nessesarily have a 'thing' for Cordelia.
Maybe he would, they played up a friendship between Fred and Spike that was actually quite sweet. But... I don't just don't see Cordelia falling for him, she's never fallen for a badboy type.
She likes them kinda funny/goofy (Xander/Doyle) or tall hunks of gorgeous (Grue/Angel).
Plus, their interactions in 'You're Welcome' did seem to suggest clashing personality types.

 

[janas]

That's funny, I always saw many similarities between Cordelia and Spike. Same contemptuous sarcasm, same egocentricity and selfishness, same personality type. They would be a really nice couple.

 

[white avenger]

I mean, I could debate that Faith and Cordelia could have a thing for each other, but since they're barely onscreen together and I see zero evidence of anything, its kind of hard to debate. Same with Spike/Cordelai.

I don't just don't see Cordelia falling for him, she's never fallen for a badboy type.
She likes them kinda funny/goofy (Xander/Doyle) or tall hunks of gorgeous (Grue/Angel).
Plus, their interactions in 'You're Welcome' did seem to suggest clashing personality types.

As I originally said, "Too bad she wasn't there in Season 5." If she had been, how could we say that there wouldn't have developed an attraction between Spike and Cordy once she got to know him? Both were essentially different people than the ones who knew each other only slightly in Sunnydale. No one could say for sure that Cordy might not have been attracted to Spike in Season 5. Any interaction between them in "You're Welcome" was very brief, and based entirely on Cordy's memory of soulless Spike. She never got to know him with a soul.

And, judging by Angel and Riley, Buffy also seemed to prefer the "tall hunk type" before Spike. If Buffy could change her mind, so could Cordy.

 

[thetopher]

That's funny, I always saw many similarities between Cordelia and Spike. Same contemptuous sarcasm, same egocentricity and selfishness, same personality type. They would be a really nice couple.

I think you're describing Cordy on Buffy, but she changes and grows a lot on Angel. Her faults are lessened considerably.

Good description of Spike though. 🙂

But seriously it would've been great to see Cordelia and Spike interact in Season 5 for more than one episode. I could see comic potential there if nothing else.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Actually, Spuffy started in the Bronze the first moment that Spike laid eyes on Buffy, just like Bangel started the first moment that Angel laid eyes on her. James played it that way from the very first, by his own statement.

Thats irrelevant.

Just cuz the actor played it hat way doesn't mean thats how it is. If that were the case, the Buffy-Angel-spike love triangle is over, Buffy chose Angel, SMG has always made it clear she wanted Buffy with Angel not Spike.

The actors having an opinion, is nice and fun, but they don't decide story.


I wish we got to see a Cordy/Angel pair up more, I loved what we got starting out. They had a great foundation for a great relationship, Cordy and Angel were much better than Cordy and Doyle.

No way Cordy would even look at Spike. Spike needs women dumb or vulnerable to like him, Corsy was neither.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Hello 'shipmates!

Here's an idea:

Draw a table like a spreadsheet table with all the actor / actress names on successive rows. Repeat the same names in the same order in the column direction left to right. Each cell in the spreadsheet represents a relationship. There will be a diagonal line where the names are both the same. That's all right, a lot of the characters are in love with themselves, so it's a valid 'ship. 😉 The table is symmetrical around the diagonal, so one triangular half can be discarded. Each remaining cell is the possible ship, even for unlikely ones like Faith and Clem (although Dawn and Clem is an intriguing possibility and Dawn and Sweet - well that was going to happen until Sweet was stopped in OMWF).

Then start a thread about each cell, even if the people involved never met or died before the other came on the scene (a Fred and Illyria cell would be interesting). Then start a thread about the rapturous nature of the ship, how they swept each other of their feet and so on. Or how they got along like sodium and water, exploding on contact.

Sexual orientation would not matter, but if you want a break from trendy same-sex hookups, you could put male names on the rows and female on the columns or vice versa for a smaller table. Conversely, if you are only interested in same sex hookups, you can have separate male and female tables. Think we ought to do this?

 

[white avenger]

I wish we got to see a Cordy/Angel pair up more, I loved what we got starting out. They had a great foundation for a great relationship, Cordy and Angel were much better than Cordy and Doyle.

No way Cordy would even look at Spike. Spike needs women dumb or vulnerable to like him, Cordy was neither.

So do I. In Season 5. Then we would actually know whether or not Cordy would have liked Spike with a soul or not. We know that she didn't like Angelus, but she did like Angel. If she ever met and got to know Spike with a soul, it might have been the same thing, but we'll never know unless Joss decides to bring Cordy back. Until then, it's all guess, theory, and conjecture. You can drag out every example of past behavior of Cordy, Spike, and any other character or group that you might care to, and none of it would change the fact that trying to outguess Joss Whedon is a crap shoot. If I had said in Season 2, or even Season 5, that Spike would ever even consider regaining his soul, or if I said halfway through Season 3 that Angel would leave town and Buffy would get a human boyfriend, or that Darla would be resurrected and that she and Angel would have a son, there would be someone who would have been adamant that I had no idea what I was talking about and that there was no evidence or precedent for such a thing happening.

My original statement was "Too bad she wasn't here in Season 5. Just think of the Cangel/Spordy (Coke?) debates that we could have had." I never said that it would happen, I just said that we could debate it. It seems pretty obvious here that Cordy didn't even have to be there to get the debate started.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

So do I. In Season 5. Then we would actually know whether or not Cordy would have liked Spike with a soul or not. We know that she didn't like Angelus, but she did like Angel. If she ever met and got to know Spike with a soul, it might have been the same thing, but we'll never know unless Joss decides to bring Cordy back. Until then, it's all guess, theory, and conjecture. You can drag out every example of past behavior of Cordy, Spike, and any other character or group that you might care to, and none of it would change the fact that trying to outguess Joss Whedon is a crap shoot. If I had said in Season 2, or even Season 5, that Spike would ever even consider regaining his soul, or if I said halfway through Season 3 that Angel would leave town and Buffy would get a human boyfriend, or that Darla would be resurrected and that she and Angel would have a son, there would be someone who would have been adamant that I had no idea what I was talking about and that there was no evidence or precedent for such a thing happening.

My original statement was "Too bad she wasn't here in Season 5. Just think of the Cangel/Spordy (Coke?) debates that we could have had." I never said that it would happen, I just said that we could debate it. It seems pretty obvious here that Cordy didn't even have to be there to get the debate started.

She didn't like Angelus but did like Angel cuz they were actually different people, it actually would have been nice for Cordy to see Spike, she would have instantly called him on his bull and been asking why he is still the same as before he got a soul.
No one bother pointing out the "subtle" ways he was different, his attitude was the same in general and towards Angel, and as soon as he could he was hooking up with Harmony, all that behaviour isn't different to what he was like before, Spike was lucky Cordy wasn't around as she wouldn't have put up with his crap, whereas the other, like Fred, fell for it, they only met him that one time in season 1, any of them that were around and he was a little more like Angelus in that, they probably thought this was a softer Spike, they just didn't know he was very similar pre-soul

 

[white avenger]

She didn't like Angelus but did like Angel cuz they were actually different people, it actually would have been nice for Cordy to see Spike, she would have instantly called him on his bull and been asking why he is still the same as before he got a soul.
No one bother pointing out the "subtle" ways he was different, his attitude was the same in general and towards Angel, and as soon as he could he was hooking up with Harmony, all that behaviour isn't different to what he was like before, Spike was lucky Cordy wasn't around as she wouldn't have put up with his crap, whereas the other, like Fred, fell for it, they only met him that one time in season 1, any of them that were around and he was a little more like Angelus in that, they probably thought this was a softer Spike, they just didn't know he was very similar pre-soul

And we fall back on the old saw again. Angelus and Angel are actually two different people because Angel has a soul, and Angelus doesn't. Spike(us) and Spike are the same person and have to be constantly judged that way because, soul or no soul, it's the same low life, scum sucking, baby eating pig vampire.

So, when Buffy saw the difference in the two beings, that Spike could be, and was, a better man, she is the only one in the entire Buffyverse who could ever possibly see that change. That Cordelia Chase, after having only a slight interaction with soulless Spike, can take a single glance at ensouled Spike and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is the same monster she knew in Season 2 Sunnydale. That a vengeance demon can take a single glance at Spike and know that he now has a soul, that a Slayer is capable if giving Spike a second chance, but a Higher Being is incapable of the same things.

Please forgive me, I now see the logic and total truth in all of your arguments. How could I have ever been so misled into thinking that Spike had ever changed or made any improvements in the person that he became after regaining his soul? Of course, Spike is a monster, always has been, always will be, the issue is settled, there is no possibility for error. Let's get the tar and feathers out, folks, cause we've got a lying, unrepentant monster pretending to be an ensouled vampire, and there's just no way we're gonna allow him to hang around here.