Roseanne Cancelled!

RomanticSoul said:
I still have to appreciate (meaning I laugh a lot) how a show gets cancelled and all reruns of it on every other station/streaming service gets pulled for a freaking tweet but Smallville is still on the air and no one bats an eye. One of the main stars involved in sex slavery, branding, brainwashing, abuse etc. but that's all fine and dandy. Oh what's that? The show and actress aren't big enough to make a media fuss about? Oh well alright then.

America. LMAO.
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The show Roseanne is centered around the CHARACTER and BELIEFS of the star, and her behavior is current and directly impacts the show and its very prominent politics. It is the ROSEANNE show. Yes, that prominence does matter. Just as the COSBY show name matters. Probably why it's off the air in most markets now too.

Also, its production and airing is still a risk & a cost to the network. Old shows are not.

If we take every show off the air where an employee (actor, writer or crew) is arrested or convicted, we'd have to take a good many shows off the air. Humans do bad stuff all the time. Some do very bad stuff. I'm glad people aren't interested in 'loving and worshiping' people like Bill Cosby anymore, but the various shows are actually a separates entities, particularly when the cast member is not the titular character.

Smallville is not centered around whatsherface, though her role becomes pretty important. But... Smallville is centered around Clark Kent and the show's themes were in no way involved with the actress's behavior many years later. Also, like other shows with problematic stars, the show is complete. It is not a risk for anyone. I will suggest to you that if there is an outcry or advertisers refuse to make buys, it will find it harder to continue being syndicated. I suspect for non-rabid fans, many people don't even associate the woman who got arrested with that 'blond girl' in Smallville. I can't remember her name. I can't remember the actor's name... even though I've heard both recently. Unlike 'clark kent' 'lois lane' and 'lana lang', 'chloe' really can start to fade into the woodwork... Most people don't really remember Pete either.

Several supporting cast actors from major shows have been arrested, some have actually gone to jail. People mostly forget them b/c they stop showing up in new material. The shows they were in 10 or 20 years ago will remain popular, if the shows were drawing audience. After a while, new people find the shows and have no idea who those 'old time' actors were.

If she goes to jail for a long time, no one will remember she was a star from Smallville 5 or 10 years from now. What is likely, is that her career is done, even if she doesn't get convicted or spend a minute in actual prison.

Also, one more thing: people who've been arrested aren't 'guilty', just charged...
By contrast, what Roseanne and other hate tweeters have done is documented and public... so that action has occurred in response is actually not that surprising. Some venues that carried the Cosby show, removed it as soon as his conviction came down, btw.

We still live in a place where people are 'innocent until proven guilty'. As vile as the charges against the Smallville actress are, nothing has yet been proven.

And to be cynical. Every choice to broadcast or not is a BUSINESS decision. The choices are predicated on that, not on morality or honor or decency. I'm gonna go with 99% business, 1% doing the right thing in theyes of the public. huge communications corporations are like all huge businesses. They don't care AT ALL about HUMANITY or MORALITY. It is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is their duty to shareholders... to make PROFIT -- and that is actually a legal obligation. Being nice and doing right are not legal obligations.

So, I find these outrages about ANY of this kind of silly. The corporate structure does what is in ITS interest. If 'siding with us' is in their interests, they will. If not, they won't.
 
DeepBlueJoy said:
The show Roseanne is centered around the CHARACTER and BELIEFS of the star, and her behavior is current and directly impacts the show and its very prominent politics. It is the ROSEANNE show. Yes, that prominence does matter. Just as the COSBY show name matters. Probably why it's off the air in most markets now too.

Also, its production and airing is still a risk & a cost to the network. Old shows are not.

If we take every show off the air where an employee (actor, writer or crew) is arrested or convicted, we'd have to take a good many shows off the air. Humans do bad stuff all the time. Some do very bad stuff. I'm glad people aren't interested in 'loving and worshiping' people like Bill Cosby anymore, but the various shows are actually a separates entities, particularly when the cast member is not the titular character.
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There is no such thing as 'pick and choose'. There is such a thing as values which supposedly most companies stand for and so do their products. When their own properties or employees are in direct violation of those values, the company needs to act. But they don't get to pick and chose which one to get rid of and which one to keep. Violation is violation. But these companies in fact do want to 'pick and choose' to keep their business going. At the end of the day, none of those companies actually care since it's all about the bottom line...MONEY. Pedophiles amongst their staff, no problem. Child abuser in general, sign up here. Rapists and violent asshats...please sign the contract. The only time they 'out' any dirty laundry and then try to spin it, is to serve a political agenda. Not because they suddenly grew a moral spine and decided to clean house.

Smallville is not centered around whatsherface, though her role becomes pretty important. But... Smallville is centered around Clark Kent and the show's themes were in no way involved with the actress's behavior many years later. Also, like other shows with problematic stars, the show is complete. It is not a risk for anyone. I will suggest to you that if there is an outcry or advertisers refuse to make buys, it will find it harder to continue being syndicated. I suspect for non-rabid fans, many people don't even associate the woman who got arrested with that 'blond girl' in Smallville. I can't remember her name. I can't remember the actor's name... even though I've heard both recently. Unlike 'clark kent' 'lois lane' and 'lana lang', 'chloe' really can start to fade into the woodwork... Most people don't really remember Pete either.
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But Clark Kent and Superman stand for something for the public, don't they? This character basically became the hero's sidekick. And while you might not remember her name, online Chloe was the most beloved female character and I have seen many members come out of the woodwork on forums who haven't been on since Smallville went off the air, just because they have heard about this. Now while 'online presence' says nothing, it has been in the news (took the news long enough IMO to out this crap) so the casual viewer sure as heck remembers her. And in this day and age of social media, #meetoo etc. it might not be the best business decision to be associated with anything she has been in. But as long as it doesn't become a huge enough issue for them (aka social media shitstorm), companies don't really care.

If she goes to jail for a long time, no one will remember she was a star from Smallville 5 or 10 years from now. What is likely, is that her career is done, even if she doesn't get convicted or spend a minute in actual prison.
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What's your point? I watched Rosanne forever ago, didn't even remember she and her show used to exist and didn't know there was even a revival before the Twitter shitstorm. But a tweet was still enough to cancel something that I almost completely forgot about. Allison and Smallville are still remembered and will be still in 5-10 years. Shouldn't something worse than what happened with Rosanne get equal similar treatment via cancellation of all reruns?

Also, one more thing: people who've been arrested aren't 'guilty', just charged...
By contrast, what Roseanne and other hate tweeters have done is documented and public... so that action has occurred in response is actually not that surprising. Some venues that carried the Cosby show, removed it as soon as his conviction came down, btw.

We still live in a place where people are 'innocent until proven guilty'. As vile as the charges against the Smallville actress are, nothing has yet been proven.
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Have you even read up on the Mack case? There is plenty documented evidence. It's not a question of guilty or not, because she is. The question is only what the punishment will be. Hell, she even refused to see a de-programmer not that long ago so the brainwashing done on her could be dealt with. That will only make it worse for her sentence. So why is Smallville still on the air?

And to be cynical. Every choice to broadcast or not is a BUSINESS decision. The choices are predicated on that, not on morality or honor or decency. I'm gonna go with 99% business, 1% doing the right thing in theyes of the public. huge communications corporations are like all huge businesses. They don't care AT ALL about HUMANITY or MORALITY. It is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is their duty to shareholders... to make PROFIT -- and that is actually a legal obligation. Being nice and doing right are not legal obligations.

So, I find these outrages about ANY of this kind of silly. The corporate structure does what is in ITS interest. If 'siding with us' is in their interests, they will. If not, they won't.
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Then the entertainment industry should just be freaking honest about who they are right up front. And then it's no problem for me. Let the world know if they employ/hire/support pedos, rapists, racists, abusers etc. because these people turn in great product for them. And then never open their mouth or voice any fake moral outrage over anything. But of course that wouldn't be good business. They rather pretend to have any sort of moral high ground and values so they can continue to enforce the mass' brainwashing into complete cognitive dissonance. Tolerate abhorrent behavior here, fake outrage there, confuse the masses. And if any of their disgusting behind the scenes shenanigans happens to be outed, spin it or use it to their advantage dependent on the current political or social climate.
 
Spanky said:
Not to get you off on another tangent but... they don't care. Case in point the Jeepers Creepers franchise.
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Well, yeah. Hence shut your trap. Safe your fake moral outrage for the braindead who are the only ones who believe you and support you. But don't ever try to tell the world via your media how to life their life, what we should be or aspire to be, what is politically correct to say and what isn't and don't pretend to believe in freedom of speech. And go away with your fake feminism sprouted by fake feminists while you are at it.
 
@RomanticSoul Documentation in the press is not the same thing as proven in a court of law.

By your standards, anyone who has ever done anything bad should either have their show canceled/pulled even 20 years later or NO one should ever have show canceled, no matter how bad they behave.

The world is simply not that neat.

There is a reason it's called Show Business, not Show Church or Show Justice or Show Ethical Society.

They aren't moral agents or legal systems nor should they be.

Companies will always make business decisions that make the most sense for them and their customers.

Sometimes they will get it right, sometimes they will get it wrong.

More and more, when show leads are shown to be sleazy and particularly if they are convicted of violating others, their shows will get cancelled or taken off the air, though it may not happen in a totally linear manner. Each situation is unique, and the risks and exposure of the companies involved is not the same either.

It is to a large extent going to be up to us to hold their feet to the fire. If we don't like what they do and if we care about how they handle the rapists, murderers, pedophiles and other exploiters, we will outcry and they will respond b/c our business matters to them..

Not so long ago, they were giving prizes to and lionizing very bad guys... now, that is slowly beginning to change. Roman Polanski is now persona non grata and so is Cosby, Spacey and Rosanne... and yeah, they aren't equally bad people... but our tolerance for people's misbehavior is less than it was, and racism, crimes against women, and kids in particular are being counted as important enough. finally.

Ironically, they are more responsive than some churches.

One day at a time.
 
DeepBlueJoy said:
@RomanticSoul Documentation in the press is not the same thing as proven in a court of law.

By your standards, anyone who has ever done anything bad should either have their show canceled/pulled even 20 years later or NO one should ever have show canceled, no matter how bad they behave.

The world is simply not that neat.
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And by your standards they are free to do whatever they want. They can pull a show for a tweet and keep shows with known rapists or pedophiles. Or hire such people for their movies without those movies getting pulled, ever. Even if there are victims in said shows/movies. Nice to see your support for criminals over anything else.

And since Rosanne's tweet is in bad taste but not a crime (as far as I know), you advocate that it's ok to yank shows just for that. But keep shows and movies on that were made by actual criminals. Interesting.

They aren't moral agents or legal systems nor should they be.

Companies will always make business decisions that make the most sense for them and their customers.

Sometimes they will get it right, sometimes they will get it wrong.
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And yet they love to pretend they are moral agents. Hell they pretend to know 'the only way of life'. You seem to be in full support of the entertainment hoopla that turns peoples brain into mush. They are NOT just companies and you should be fully aware of that. If they were they wouldn't voice their opinion on anything, just make movies/music/shows for profit and that's it. They wouldn't have actors or musicians push any political or social agenda to influence the masses. Since when is it an entertainment company's job to tell you who to vote for?

It is to a large extent going to be up to us to hold their feet to the fire. If we don't like what they do and if we care about how they handle the rapists, murderers, pedophiles and other exploiters, we will outcry and they will respond b/c our business matters to them..
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Right. I see the outcry (NOT) in a lot of these cases. The only outcry I see is towards the men in the business. No outcry towards women like Allison Mack. Rosanne is an exception rather than a rule (and didn't even commit a crime). Nuff said.

Not so long ago, they were giving prizes to and lionizing very bad guys... now, that is slowly beginning to change. Roman Polanski is now persona non grata and so is Cosby, Spacey and Rosanne... and yeah, they aren't equally bad people... but our tolerance for people's misbehavior is less than it was, and racism, crimes against women, and kids in particular are being counted as important enough. finally.

Ironically, they are more responsive than some churches.

One day at a time.
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Polanski as your example. Really? It was only a month ago that the Academy removed him. How many decades did it take? And a lot of men have done some crap over the years and most of them have managed to continue in the business. Polanski continued to make movies. Mel Gibson came back. Weinstein was in the business forever and his practices silently accepted by everyone. And now they act all outraged? Way too late as their silence lead to more and more victims. Considering that almost anyone can come back after a while (because people do forget), nothing ever changes in the entertainment industry.
 
@RomanticSoul Polanski is actually a real sign of change within the academy. Those decades of ignoring the problem only occurred because of the power structure that protected him.

Now, some of those people are gone, and those left are forced to change the comfortable "protect the other boyz no matter what club" They change because more diversity is finally entering the academy & because in the world we live in, people refuse to be shamed into silence because someone powerful forced himself on us or into us. When I was young, like every other sex crime victim, i blamed ONLY myself and believed I was a dirty little seductress. I was 10 & 12. The two men knew each other. I now know I wasn't to blame.

And now we survivors are talking to each other, and to 'normal' people who haven't really understood before... That is why people are saying "me too" & "time's up". The power structure will not fold on its own, so change will be piecemeal.

It is hard to explain to people who love us why we, messed up, homeless, drug addicted and utterly broken should be believed over the rich, shiny, sane and charming men (and some women). Because sex crimes eat out a person's substance.

Why do you think even Polanski's victim still blames herself and not him? She was a child. Children do not give consent to be USED. They cannot! Of course, the academy wasn't looking for a reason to believe a crime occurred. Even our own families often believe priests, teachers and charming powerful people instead of us... Because (especially when the victims are young or powerless) the perpetrators choose (cull) those most needy, most outsider, most troubled -- ideal victims for powerful men.

Who will believe the neophyte actress? The teenage boy with a drinking problem? Why do you think they are only talking 20 and 30 years of therapy and career advancement later -- the only way to talk and be HEARD is to make yourself a 'credible' victim. Get successful, powerful, sober.

It took testimony from 60 other women (5 in court) for ONE celebrity to lose his halo (Bill Cosby). Over 200 for that team doctor in Michigan. One of us just isn't enough. Our (female) word still is only valid in aggregate, overwhelming the lies with so much truth that no one dare ignore it!

Just as black lives only matter b/c our deaths lynchings by cop are being captured on cell phone. Before that, 'he had a gun' was enough lie for cops to skate home free!

Powerful people are only getting their feet held to fire b/c the tools of modern lives allow victims and allies to band together and fight.

Responding to these events is not an easy thing, even when a company wants to do the right thing. Because the complaining intern may really just be after money! (She is just a woman, after all, and women are often lying gold diggers!!) (Sarcasm)

...Until she becomes a successful actress many years later and has the power to talk. Of course, by then hundreds of victims may have had their souls destroyed.

And yes, I know what it is like from personal experience. From the isolation of secrets kept & eventual disbelief from family that caused permanent distance from one of my parents, to the church that encouraged me to ask for forgiveness from god for my 'sin'. (But they also kept me alive, because they helped me believe god loved me, when i felt unlovable and alone)
Finally, healing really started with a sponsor who cried for my suffering, and (the same week) a lover who laughed at the idea he would reject me for being 'soiled'.

I finally escaped my cage of shame.

Because of love and support. And being believed.

Slowly, I learned how what happened to me could help others. My broken pieces have become weapons in healing.

As to why consequences were so swift for Roseanne even though it was 'just' words and not a 'crime'?
1) It was public and on the record. The proof is on tape.
2) she is female. No woman has gotten away with being a shock jock.
3) racism = vile. Even (some)men get fired for that!
4) hate speech is dangerous.
That last one is vitally important. In places like Rwanda and where there has been genocide, it all began with TALK. Mostly in the media. Dehumanizing your target is the first step to being able to hurt and kill someone and to justify it to your peers. Racists and rapists both know this.
 
They should bring in Joss Whedon to write it. It would make some much sense in multiple levels.
 
GraceK
GraceK
Didn’t he used to write a few episodes for the original show back in the day?
@GraceK That's where he first broke into the business. I mean, aside from being born into it, but that was his first professional job; writing for Roseanne. It would be symmetrical if he were to return. Plus then all the witty Trump hatred he spews on Twitter he could have an outlet for.
 
DeepBlueJoy said:
@RomanticSoul Polanski is actually a real sign of change within the academy. Those decades of ignoring the problem only occurred because of the power structure that protected him.
It is hard to explain to people who love us why we, messed up, homeless, drug addicted and utterly broken should be believed over the rich, shiny, sane and charming men (and some women). Because sex crimes eat out a person's substance.
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Thank you so much for sharing, all the points you make in your post are so important.
I worry about trial by twitter but understand it as the official law process fails so often it is heartbreaking. And am also concerned that things like kicking Polanski out of the film club decades after he committed his crime is like giving the victims a placebo, they can appear like they're doing something without actually dealing with the here and now of sexism and abuse within the industry.
 
RomanticSoul said:
Well, yeah. Hence shut your trap. Safe your fake moral outrage for the braindead who are the only ones who believe you and support you. But don't ever try to tell the world via your media how to life their life, what we should be or aspire to be, what is politically correct to say and what isn't...
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Oh. Hi. That's some post you got there. 😜

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They are trying to make another "Archie Bunker's Place" which was the Archie Bunker show where Edith was only in five of the 14 episodes of the first season and died early on. It worked well in the first season but gradually faded away and only ran for four seasons. But a Rosaenneless Roseanne show would be even more extreme. The title character would be gone. The viewers will tune in to see how they can make it work and will tune out when they see that it doesn't.
 
November
November
Yeah
RomanticSoul said:
Because you can separate art from artist. But in the case of Rosanne you can't? Do people honestly don't get it how much they don't make sense?
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In a nutshell, this is the situation:

The tree-hugging, PETA-loving, Hollywood ass kisses (AKA Democrats) refuse to accept the fact that Trump won the election. So to make themselves feel better, they go after ANYONE who dares show support for him. If Roseanne had been a gutless, flag-waving liberal, they'd have found a way laugh it off.

These are the same idiots who fully endorse Sarah Huckabee being asked to leave a restaurant...over politics. Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters even urged people to harass Republican figures in public! (Now she's getting death threats. Stupid cow!)

What I'm saying is, the Roseanne situation is a glaring example of the hypocrisy (and idiocy) which surrounds Hollywood. What happened to Roseanne was a biased and very public media lynching. You get what I'm saying? There was NOTHING fair or just about what happened here.
 
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You kids are STILL talking about this? I'm gonna guess the number of Buffyboard members who were watching is probably close to zero lol

@Amber Bunny Slippers , I think the people in show business tend to be Democrats because they are the few in that income bracket, who go from a quarter million dollar salary and higher, to remembering what it is like to not be able to pay 400$ rent just a few months or years before. Which is a rare situation. I do not think Hollywood as a industry is as liberal as people think it is, it is quite conservative, still a very is exclusive club for white men on the business end and everything comes down to the bottom line.
 
I'm going to use this quote from a TV show (about behind the scenes of a tv show) cause it's pretty much true: Hollywood isn't run by liberals, it's run by companies, and you can look for a pretty long time before finding a liberal on the board of directors of any of those companies.
 
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