Round 2: Raiden vs Merrick
- Thread starter Flannen
- Start date
Tara was more important than Oz to Willow's journey.
Merrick: For
Throughout the first 3 and a bit seasons of Buffy Willow was always portrayed as a victim of sorts. Whether it be through Cordelia bullying her, her puppy dog crush on Xander or her even the more obvious things like being captured all the time. In season 4 Oz made her a victim again when he cheated on her. Willow was always the one being betrayed. That creates a sort of "untouchability" for a character, even when they do wrong it isn't really remarked upon because worse has been done to them. Basically they find themselves in a King Lear situation where they are "more sinned against that sinning". What this all translates into is a stunting of growth.
When Willow met Oz she was clearly uncomofortable in her own skin and self conscience. Oz was amazing in bringing Willow out of her shell but there was certainly an imbalance in the relationship because Oz didn't need Willow to validate him like that. He was Oz, simple as that.
When Willow meets Tara they are both going through a sort of growth period and discovering who they were as people. This time Willow got to share this experience and it was a relationship based on a level foundation. Willow's abilities and confidence flourished, she found her purpose in life. However she also discovered that she was not just the victim and that she had a deep darkness all of her own. Her confidence turned to arrogance and conceit and had fatal conscequences. The experience humanises Willow though, she finds a way to be confident in her abilities while remembering to be humble in her position within magic and the world itself. By being with Tara Willow learns of the greatest highs and the greatest lows life has to offer.
Tara's death threw Willow off the deep end. She couldn't regain control of herself, because her soul had almost literally been ripped from her body, and the darkness she found within herself forced her to look at herself as a whole and see the person she would become if she didn't learn how to control herself. Tara showed Willow that she could learn to have that sort of power, and without Tara, and even Tara's death, Willow never would have had the strength and power that was needed to cast the Scythe Spell and activate all the Potentials into their power.
Had Oz stayed, and Willow stayed with him, she never would have had the confidence to tap into the power that was indicated in 'Becoming'. And ultimately, that's where Willow found her true purpose and her true sense of self.
When Oz first met Willow, he opened her shell, showed to the world what Willow could be had she had the confidence. Without Oz, she never would have felt like she could be that person and choose Tara.
But it was Tara who really helped her out of her shell, and showed to the world what a wonderful woman Willow really was. Willow didn't feel the need to hide behind Tara the way she sometimes did with Oz. She found the strength to stand next to Tara.
Merrick: For
Throughout the first 3 and a bit seasons of Buffy Willow was always portrayed as a victim of sorts. Whether it be through Cordelia bullying her, her puppy dog crush on Xander or her even the more obvious things like being captured all the time. In season 4 Oz made her a victim again when he cheated on her. Willow was always the one being betrayed. That creates a sort of "untouchability" for a character, even when they do wrong it isn't really remarked upon because worse has been done to them. Basically they find themselves in a King Lear situation where they are "more sinned against that sinning". What this all translates into is a stunting of growth.
When Willow met Oz she was clearly uncomofortable in her own skin and self conscience. Oz was amazing in bringing Willow out of her shell but there was certainly an imbalance in the relationship because Oz didn't need Willow to validate him like that. He was Oz, simple as that.
When Willow meets Tara they are both going through a sort of growth period and discovering who they were as people. This time Willow got to share this experience and it was a relationship based on a level foundation. Willow's abilities and confidence flourished, she found her purpose in life. However she also discovered that she was not just the victim and that she had a deep darkness all of her own. Her confidence turned to arrogance and conceit and had fatal conscequences. The experience humanises Willow though, she finds a way to be confident in her abilities while remembering to be humble in her position within magic and the world itself. By being with Tara Willow learns of the greatest highs and the greatest lows life has to offer.
Tara's death threw Willow off the deep end. She couldn't regain control of herself, because her soul had almost literally been ripped from her body, and the darkness she found within herself forced her to look at herself as a whole and see the person she would become if she didn't learn how to control herself. Tara showed Willow that she could learn to have that sort of power, and without Tara, and even Tara's death, Willow never would have had the strength and power that was needed to cast the Scythe Spell and activate all the Potentials into their power.
Had Oz stayed, and Willow stayed with him, she never would have had the confidence to tap into the power that was indicated in 'Becoming'. And ultimately, that's where Willow found her true purpose and her true sense of self.
When Oz first met Willow, he opened her shell, showed to the world what Willow could be had she had the confidence. Without Oz, she never would have felt like she could be that person and choose Tara.
But it was Tara who really helped her out of her shell, and showed to the world what a wonderful woman Willow really was. Willow didn't feel the need to hide behind Tara the way she sometimes did with Oz. She found the strength to stand next to Tara.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Tara was more important than Oz to Willow's Journey.
Raiden: Against
After careful consideration, House Raiden has come to the conclusion that Oz was far more important to Willow's overall development as a character based on several reasons:
1.) Oz gave Willow her initial confidence, supported her independence, and have her the opportunity to experience loving someone. Most importantly, by supporting her individual interests and her as an individual, Oz fostered a self-love in Willow that she had previously been lacking in.
2.) On a grander scale, Oz's unfaithfulness to her was the catalyst which inspired her to develop her ability to be magic, which ended up being the source of what she felt was her individual talent in the Scooby Gang. In short, without the anger that resulted from Oz's infidelity to Willow, she arguably would not have developed her magical abilities to such a degree which would eventually allow her to due the spell in 'Chosen' which ultimately saved (and changed) the world.
3.) Oz played a big role in the development of how Willow both viewed and handled her personal romantic relationships. Without Oz as her love interest, Willow would have continued to have romantic feelings for Xander, and her romantic options would have been stunted. Without her relationship with Oz as the "transitional period", Willow would have never been in the mental state to fall in love with Tara. Oz helped her to take control of her life and stop doubting herself. This new-found self-confidence helped her transform into the empowered woman she is today.
4.) Lastly, unlike her parents and even on some level, Buffy and Xander - Oz loved Willow for who she truly was and had no desire to change her. He only wanted her to see herself in the way he did. Oz improved her capacity to love another. It wasn't until Willow was in college, had been dating Oz for a while, and no longer being watch-dogged by Giles that she was able to explore her use of magic, which was always an analogy for her self-empowerment and self-discovery.
Willow was so devastated by what Oz did to her with Veruca that she used magic irresponsibly in an attempt to end her pain. It could be said that Oz "helped" her on her road to improving her ability to do magic. It was because of the pain he caused her that she started to do serious spells, like the one she did in "Something Blue" which turned Giles blind and had Buffy and Spike get engaged. Only by making this mistake did she learn the possible destructive consequences of magic.
To summarize:
Oz was more important to Willow's personal journey as a character because he increased her self-confidence, supported her independence, and gave her the initial and unique opportunity to truly be in love with someone. Oz's actions - although not in the happiest context - were the catalyst which set in motion Willow's exploration of magic, which helped develop her individual talent in the area. Due to practice and talent, her ability to do magic eventually became a large aspect of her identity, as well as source of pride for her. Oz, by engaging in an overall healthy and loving relationship with Willow, helped her learn the nature of love, allowed her to move on from her feelings for Xander, and eventually, empower her to feel self-confident enough to transform into the extraordinary woman she is today. Without Oz, and the experience of loving him and losing him, Willow would have no perspective or standards for what she wanted out of a relationship. Arguably, she wouldn't have in been in a place to realize how perfect Tara was for her.
Raiden: Against
After careful consideration, House Raiden has come to the conclusion that Oz was far more important to Willow's overall development as a character based on several reasons:
1.) Oz gave Willow her initial confidence, supported her independence, and have her the opportunity to experience loving someone. Most importantly, by supporting her individual interests and her as an individual, Oz fostered a self-love in Willow that she had previously been lacking in.
2.) On a grander scale, Oz's unfaithfulness to her was the catalyst which inspired her to develop her ability to be magic, which ended up being the source of what she felt was her individual talent in the Scooby Gang. In short, without the anger that resulted from Oz's infidelity to Willow, she arguably would not have developed her magical abilities to such a degree which would eventually allow her to due the spell in 'Chosen' which ultimately saved (and changed) the world.
3.) Oz played a big role in the development of how Willow both viewed and handled her personal romantic relationships. Without Oz as her love interest, Willow would have continued to have romantic feelings for Xander, and her romantic options would have been stunted. Without her relationship with Oz as the "transitional period", Willow would have never been in the mental state to fall in love with Tara. Oz helped her to take control of her life and stop doubting herself. This new-found self-confidence helped her transform into the empowered woman she is today.
4.) Lastly, unlike her parents and even on some level, Buffy and Xander - Oz loved Willow for who she truly was and had no desire to change her. He only wanted her to see herself in the way he did. Oz improved her capacity to love another. It wasn't until Willow was in college, had been dating Oz for a while, and no longer being watch-dogged by Giles that she was able to explore her use of magic, which was always an analogy for her self-empowerment and self-discovery.
Willow was so devastated by what Oz did to her with Veruca that she used magic irresponsibly in an attempt to end her pain. It could be said that Oz "helped" her on her road to improving her ability to do magic. It was because of the pain he caused her that she started to do serious spells, like the one she did in "Something Blue" which turned Giles blind and had Buffy and Spike get engaged. Only by making this mistake did she learn the possible destructive consequences of magic.
To summarize:
Oz was more important to Willow's personal journey as a character because he increased her self-confidence, supported her independence, and gave her the initial and unique opportunity to truly be in love with someone. Oz's actions - although not in the happiest context - were the catalyst which set in motion Willow's exploration of magic, which helped develop her individual talent in the area. Due to practice and talent, her ability to do magic eventually became a large aspect of her identity, as well as source of pride for her. Oz, by engaging in an overall healthy and loving relationship with Willow, helped her learn the nature of love, allowed her to move on from her feelings for Xander, and eventually, empower her to feel self-confident enough to transform into the extraordinary woman she is today. Without Oz, and the experience of loving him and losing him, Willow would have no perspective or standards for what she wanted out of a relationship. Arguably, she wouldn't have in been in a place to realize how perfect Tara was for her.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
take that, lyri! 😉
With relationships, it is rare when both people serve the same purpose to each other, especially with first loves. With Ozlow, Oz as you say, brought her out of her shell and increased her self-confidence (but so did Buffy and Xander) - cheating on her didn't break that and it did not make her a victim, it strengthened it. The anger she had fueled the fire. For Oz, Willow accepted him for who he was, despite the wolf inside. Despite how it ended, Oz did much good for Willow.
Basically, if Oz had never cheated on Willow and never left her, I find it impossible to believe that Willow's life would have been much different having never met Tara.
One person isn't responsible for creating Willow's self-empowerment. Tara is not the source of her. The desire to explore magic was always a part of Willow. Yes, magic is the source of her true sense of self and of her identity, but Willow reached her own potential on her own, with the initial influence of Oz, and with the continuing influence of Tara and her other friends.
Willow happened to meet tara at a time in her life when Willow was already developing who she was. She was newly independant from her parents, in college, and experimenting with magic. Tara was simply a part of that growth, she was not the sole source of Willow's subsequent empowerment.
Not necessarily. The strength Willow gained from this experience taught her what to look for in a relationship, what to avoid in the future, and what not to tolerate, in this case, men who do not have control over their inner impulses. This was always the analogy that the wolf inside Oz going for.
Oz did not stunt Willow's growth by cheating on her. Wilow's self-confidence was stunted early on as a result of her parent's lack of interest in her life. Great reference to Shakespeare and to the parallel with King Lear, but I'm unsure what Willow's "untouchability" has to do with Oz. I feel Oz developed, not stunted her growth.
Yes, Oz didn't need Willow to lift his self-confidence, but I wouldn't say that's what caused the "imbalance" in their relationship. I don't feel there was an imbalance, I feel there was a problem they were unable to fix together. With Oz's help, Willow learned to love and have faith in herself. The imbalance to speak of was caused by the fact that Oz was a werewolf. This caused a rift between them. Oz was having a hard time controlling the wolf within him. He needed time away from her in order to take control of the wolf inside. Willow couldn't help him there, and it wasn't because she was deficient - she just couldn't understand what he was going through.
With relationships, it is rare when both people serve the same purpose to each other, especially with first loves. With Ozlow, Oz as you say, brought her out of her shell and increased her self-confidence (but so did Buffy and Xander) - cheating on her didn't break that and it did not make her a victim, it strengthened it. The anger she had fueled the fire. For Oz, Willow accepted him for who he was, despite the wolf inside. Despite how it ended, Oz did much good for Willow.
Tara, like everyone Willow has ever met and been involved with, had a hand in Willow's development, but Oz was the first to nurture it. If Tara had been around at SH, maybe things would be different. Oz put her in the position to be open to all Tara had to offer. Without the confidence Oz gave her, Tara would have been too timid to approach Tara.
True. When Oz cheated on her, she was arguably as devastated, but she didn't try to end the world. he storyline of Willow's addiction was planned far in advance. I can say with complete confidence that with or without Oz or Tara's death in her life, she would have still went off the "deep end" and realized in some way she needed to make a change. If Oz and Willow had stayed together, Oz probably would have been killed off, and the same thing would have happened. If Oz had been shot by Warren, the same thing would have happened.
If Oz and Willow had stayed together, Oz would have played the same role in fostering and nurturing her confidence in her powers.
We can never know, if given the chance, if Oz could have filled the role that Tara did for Willow. I see no reason why he couldn't have if he hadn't left.
Basically, if Oz had never cheated on Willow and never left her, I find it impossible to believe that Willow's life would have been much different having never met Tara.
One person isn't responsible for creating Willow's self-empowerment. Tara is not the source of her. The desire to explore magic was always a part of Willow. Yes, magic is the source of her true sense of self and of her identity, but Willow reached her own potential on her own, with the initial influence of Oz, and with the continuing influence of Tara and her other friends.
Willow happened to meet tara at a time in her life when Willow was already developing who she was. She was newly independant from her parents, in college, and experimenting with magic. Tara was simply a part of that growth, she was not the sole source of Willow's subsequent empowerment.
Flannen
Great job hun!
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Closing Statement:
We'll never know what would have happened if Oz had stayed, and if Tara has never been a part of Willow's life. We do know, though, that all the people Willow has met have had a lasting impression and influence on her, whether it be for good or for bad. Some were more important then others. One of those important people was Oz. He was her first love, and he accepted her and loved her for exactly who she was. Without him, she wouldn't have been given the chance to explore a healthy, long-term loving relationship that was based on mutual trust and friendship. Having ended so badly based on irreconcilable differences, Willow learned that Oz wasn't what she wanted. Yet, the support Oz gave her helped her to get through life's challenges at the time. Later, with the confidence Oz gave her, she would learn to love herself and embrace her power and to respect her power in relation to the world around her.
We'll never know what would have happened if Oz had stayed, and if Tara has never been a part of Willow's life. We do know, though, that all the people Willow has met have had a lasting impression and influence on her, whether it be for good or for bad. Some were more important then others. One of those important people was Oz. He was her first love, and he accepted her and loved her for exactly who she was. Without him, she wouldn't have been given the chance to explore a healthy, long-term loving relationship that was based on mutual trust and friendship. Having ended so badly based on irreconcilable differences, Willow learned that Oz wasn't what she wanted. Yet, the support Oz gave her helped her to get through life's challenges at the time. Later, with the confidence Oz gave her, she would learn to love herself and embrace her power and to respect her power in relation to the world around her.
*dun dun duuuuhh*
The second house going through the final is....Raiden!
This round was scored as:
Raiden: 35
Merrick: 31
Again, congratulations to both houses! Great job!
The second house going through the final is....Raiden!
This round was scored as:
Raiden: 35
Merrick: 31
Again, congratulations to both houses! Great job!
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Woot!
