S4 thoughts.

whitewolf

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I just finished S4. I have to say it wasn't as good as the first three seasons. I just didn't find the overall plot very interesting. The initiative plotline was boring and Adam wasn't near as good as the previous 3 big bads. There were several episodes that saved it in my eyes, but I'll discuss them after I discuss the characters.

One theme I did want to give its own section was the division of the Scooby Gang. It started off low key with Giles and Xander feeling left out because Buffy no longer needed a Watcher and Xander was the only one not in going to college. When Riley came into the picture the group fractured even further which is one of many reasons I do not like him. He unintentionally isolated Buffy from her friends, which honestly was probably the most significant thing he did. This isolation was even highlighted in "Where the Wild Things Are" they do nothing, but have sex which parts her friends in danger. I can't blame them for that, because no one expects that to happen, but the fact that she didn't even notice what was going on really shows how out of touch she can be at times.

During Buffy's isolation Willow met Tara and their relationship developed. Willow does deserve some of the blame here, because she put a lot of her energy into her and Tara's relationship, but I can't blame her as much, because like Buffy said Willow was going through a huge change in her life.

All of these divisions were exploited by Spike who played off each of the group's fears. He played on Xander's feelings of uselessness, which is something Cordy did in "Zeppo." His manipulation of Giles was fairly similar to what he did with Xander. His work with Willow, was brilliant. He saw that she and Tara were a couple and framed his comments in such a way that it made it seem like Buffy and the others were attack both Willow's relationship and her studying Wicca. That being said, I don't think Spike created these problems, he merely brought them to the surface. In "New Moon Rising" I got the feeling that while Buffy tolerated Willow's relationship with Tara she did not accept it and there is a rather large difference between those two things. Xander showed signs of fears of being useless a lot in this season and the others didn't do enough to help him realize how much they cared. Now on to individual characters.


Willow- She's still my favorite. I really enjoyed her development throughout this season and she was one of the things that really helped it along. Seeing her break up with Oz, get past him and meet Tara was great. She is also growing into a very powerful witch. Watching her get over Oz was very well done and felt authentic.

Giles- Sadly he and Xander don't have much of a role this season, but he did have a few moments. Him being turned into a demon was great episode and I loved hearing him sing (was that his actual voice?)

Buffy- She kind of annoyed me this season, mainly because of her choice in men. I do not like Riley and she was with him way too much. However, I did enjoy watching her grow and move on beyond Angel.

I do feel like she wasn't the best of friends this season. Once again, her attitude towards Wilow and Tara seemed to be more one of uneasy tolerance than acceptance, and while that may be all that we can ask of society as a whole, I think we deserve better than mere tolerance from our closest friends.

Tara- I'm really liking her so far and am going to enjoy watching her and Willow's relationship grow. Count me firmly in the Tillow camp.

Riley- I hate you, that is all. Seriously, he is dull and boring. If he stays around much longer I'm going to turn into a Bangel fan.

Spke- He and Willow saved this season. He was so funny. There are so many great scenes of him I can't list them all. Character wise he is very slowly developing from a villain into an reluctant anti-hero.

Xander- He was in a similar boat as Giles. He didn't play much of a role and was underused in my opinion.

Faith-It was great seeing her again. One thing I don't get though, in the church fight why does she call Buffy sick and murderous? Is she losing herself to whatever part of Buffy's mind remained in her body?

Oz- I hated seeing him leave, I wish he could have stuck around just as a friend to Willow, but I understand why he had to go.

Adam- He was boring and dull. I really didn't like him. He had no charisma and wasn't frightening either. Sure none of the other villains have been scary really, but they had a lot of charisma.

As to individual episodes there were a few that stood out.

Hush- It was great from an artistic standpoint. I love the poem at the start of it. It also was the first sign of Tillow.

Wild at Heart- This was a great episode and was a great way to end Willow and Oz's relationship. You could tell Willow was really hurt when Oz left and he was too. I hated Veronica or whatever her name was.

Something Blue- This episode had me laughing the entire time. Seeing Buffy and Xander plan their marriage was so funny.

Yoko Factor- This was great. I really liked watching Spike manipulate the gang. Also seeing Xander and (drunk) Giles's reaction to finding out Willow was gay was kind of funny. "Bloody Hell."

New Moon Rising- I'm sorry Hush fans, but I enjoyed this one more. It isn't as artistic, but it was had great character moments. Willow telling Buffy her feelings for Tara, Oz trying to win Willow back. Willow talking about meeting Oz in Istanbul. My favorite scene was at the end though. I loved when Willow brought Tara the extra flamey candle and told her she loved her. It was very emotional.

Overall if I had to sum up the theme of this season in one word "growth" The characters all had to grow and accept things about themselves and their friends they may not have wanted to.

I hope you all enjoyed reading my thoughts and I'm looking forward to reading what you all have to see. I'm especially curious to know if you all agree or disagree with me on my character analysis and spillting of the Scooby Gang. Anyway I hope you all enjoyed it.
 
I just finished S4. I have to say it wasn't as good as the first three seasons. I just didn't find the overall plot very interesting. The initiative plotline was boring and Adam wasn't near as good as the previous 3 big bads. There were several episodes that saved it in my eyes, but I'll discuss them after I discuss the characters.

One theme I did want to give its own section was the division of the Scooby Gang. It started off low key with Giles and Xander feeling left out because Buffy no longer needed a Watcher and Xander was the only one not in going to college. When Riley came into the picture the group fractured even further which is one of many reasons I do not like him. He unintentionally isolated Buffy from her friends, which honestly was probably the most significant thing he did. This isolation was even highlighted in "Where the Wild Things Are" they do nothing, but have sex which parts her friends in danger. I can't blame them for that, because no one expects that to happen, but the fact that she didn't even notice what was going on really shows how out of touch she can be at times.

During Buffy's isolation Willow met Tara and their relationship developed. Willow does deserve some of the blame here, because she put a lot of her energy into her and Tara's relationship, but I can't blame her as much, because like Buffy said Willow was going through a huge change in her life.

In "New Moon Rising" I got the feeling that while Buffy tolerated Willow's relationship with Tara she did not accept it and there is a rather large difference between those two things. Xander showed signs of fears of being useless a lot in this season and the others didn't do enough to help him realize how much they cared. Now on to individual characters.

Giles- Sadly he and Xander don't have much of a role this season, but he did have a few moments. Him being turned into a demon was great episode and I loved hearing him sing (was that his actual voice?)

Buffy- She kind of annoyed me this season, mainly because of her choice in men. I do not like Riley and she was with him way too much. However, I did enjoy watching her grow and move on beyond Angel.

I do feel like she wasn't the best of friends this season. Once again, her attitude towards Wilow and Tara seemed to be more one of uneasy tolerance than acceptance, and while that may be all that we can ask of society as a whole, I think we deserve better than mere tolerance from our closest friends.

Riley- I hate you, that is all. Seriously, he is dull and boring. If he stays around much longer I'm going to turn into a Bangel fan.

Xander- He was in a similar boat as Giles. He didn't play much of a role and was underused in my opinion.

Oz- I hated seeing him leave, I wish he could have stuck around just as a friend to Willow, but I understand why he had to go.

Adam- He was boring and dull. I really didn't like him. He had no charisma and wasn't frightening either. Sure none of the other villains have been scary really, but they had a lot of charisma.

As to individual episodes there were a few that stood out.

Yoko Factor- This was great. I really liked watching Spike manipulate the gang. Also seeing Xander and (drunk) Giles's reaction to finding out Willow was gay was kind of funny. "Bloody Hell."

New Moon Rising- I'm sorry Hush fans, but I enjoyed this one more. It isn't as artistic, but it was had great character moments. Willow telling Buffy her feelings for Tara, Oz trying to win Willow back. Willow talking about meeting Oz in Istanbul. My favorite scene was at the end though. I loved when Willow brought Tara the extra flamey candle and told her she loved her. It was very emotional.

Overall if I had to sum up the theme of this season in one word "growth" The characters all had to grow and accept things about themselves and their friends they may not have wanted to.

I hope you all enjoyed reading my thoughts and I'm looking forward to reading what you all have to see. I'm especially curious to know if you all agree or disagree with me on my character analysis and spillting of the Scooby Gang. Anyway I hope you all enjoyed it.

Most of what you said is echoed by a lot of Buffy fans. S4 is...different. It's not bad, but it has a very unique theme from the previous three. It's very realistic, beyond S6 probably the most realistic of any of the seasons to be honest. Friends do break apart after high school. There really is this very real sense of drifting. You don't want it to happen so you work harder to reconnect with people, even though you aren't even really the same people anymore. Describing it as a season of "growth" is very accurate in my books.

I also think that losing Angel and Oz hurt the season a lot more than most people consider. Two of your male leads are just gone, and while Spike does a great job at filling in, Riley flops in replacing Angel (or at least, I thought he did). The only two Riley moments I really like are when he lays out Parker (who I despised) and when Angel just beats the hell out of him 🙂. But then again, I loved Buffy and Angel together, and Angel is my favorite character after Buffy, so I was just kinda sad for most of S4. I like Tara, and she's a very popular character, but I always liked Oz more. And I think a big part of it was I just missed them in high school too. Kind of a reflection of my own life that way I suppose 🙁.

There was just too much of Buffy and Riley together. Again, that is realistic, but it got a bit annoying as well. The Initiative was, I thought, a good idea in theory, but it just didn't...mesh. They were just useless, Riley's whole arc with them didn't make a whole lot of sense ("I'm an anarchist!" Um...okay Riley, we also call that a prison term) and Adam is by far the worst big bad of the series.

I don't think that Buffy wasn't accepting of Willow being gay. She never acts as if she has a problem with it. I think she was just surprised is all (and remember, the season aired in the late 90's, not today).

Xander and Giles...yeah. I've said it before, they're always good characters, but in my eyes their best days are behind them on Buffy.

There are however, some amazing single episodes. Hush is fantastic, and the two Oz-starring ones are great as well. Giles as a monster was hilarious. I loved "Pangs" and the crossover it had on Angel with "I will remember you". That was probably my favorite episode of the season.

Are you still watching Angel too?
 
Season 4 is the weakest season of the show, IMO. I like the college theme and seeing how the Scoobies each grow and change in their new role as adults in the world, but I didn't like the whole "the government is evil" plot. Bluh.
I LOVE Riley and his relationship with Buffy. I don't get why people keep calling Riley boring; I thought he was charming and super sweet to her. Just because he's not a mysterious vampire doesn't mean he isn't worthy of being a love interest/good character.
Faith wasn't talking to Buffy when she called "her" sick and murderous... She was pulling a Fruedian slip and talking to herself while she beat her own body up.
 
Season 4 is the weakest season of the show, IMO. I like the college theme and seeing how the Scoobies each grow and change in their new role as adults in the world, but I didn't like the whole "the government is evil" plot. Bluh.
I LOVE Riley and his relationship with Buffy. I don't get why people keep calling Riley boring; I thought he was charming and super sweet to her. Just because he's not a mysterious vampire doesn't mean he isn't worthy of being a love interest/good character.
Faith wasn't talking to Buffy when she called "her" sick and murderous... She was pulling a Fruedian slip and talking to herself while she beat her own body up.

I know it isn't fair to the character, but I think the issue I had with Riley is that it just made me miss Angel with Buffy. Sure, not the most mature way of thinking, but the Riley scenes just made me kind of sad. Maybe I care about Buffy more than I should 🙂 but every time there was a scene with her and Riley I just thought: "That should be Angel". I just couldn't enjoy watching him.

Plus, over on Angel he was just...sad about Buffy the entire first season. He talked about her all the time, he came back to Sunnydale (in great episodes) twice, and then they had "I will remember you". Even late in the season when Buffy comes to L.A., he tells her he can't get over her. I mean, as a fan I loved that, but if they were trying to get me into Riley at the same time it failed. After IWRY Riley I was checked out on Riley. I hope I'm explaining it right.

But no, Riley isn't that bad (I like complaining about him though), and after some time had passed I liked the next guy with Buffy (trying to avoid spoilerage). And the way he decked Parker? Awesome.
 
I LOVE Riley and his relationship with Buffy. I don't get why people keep calling Riley boring; I thought he was charming and super sweet to her. Just because he's not a mysterious vampire doesn't mean he isn't worthy of being a love interest/good character.

I hated S1-3 Angel, so I really wanted to like the new love interest--Riley. I did like him at first, when they were dancing around each other and stuff, because there was all the suspense on how they would discover the other's identity (Slayer, Initiative soldier). But after they found out, and after they got together, it was just... way too much screentime. I mean, I'm not really someone who totally loses interests when the romantic leads get together, but there was just too much of them. Like I loved Woz, and it worked because their scenes were cute and pertinent. Briley wasn't. And Riley is bland--he's basically a Nice Guy, and that's it.
 
Excellent stuff! I agree with absolutely everything you said, especially summing up the theme in one word, Adam being an awful Big Bad and Captain Whitebread being dull as ditch water 🙂

I am really looking forward to some of your reactions to events in season 5. Not to give anything away but there are some doozies* in there



*Giving my self bonus point for using the word 'doozy' in the plural and not in relation to watching that first step 🙂
 
I just finished S4. I have to say it wasn't as good as the first three seasons. I just didn't find the overall plot very interesting. The initiative plotline was boring and Adam wasn't near as good as the previous 3 big bads. There were several episodes that saved it in my eyes, but I'll discuss them after I discuss the characters.

One theme I did want to give its own section was the division of the Scooby Gang. It started off low key with Giles and Xander feeling left out because Buffy no longer needed a Watcher and Xander was the only one not in going to college. When Riley came into the picture the group fractured even further which is one of many reasons I do not like him. He unintentionally isolated Buffy from her friends, which honestly was probably the most significant thing he did. This isolation was even highlighted in "Where the Wild Things Are" they do nothing, but have sex which parts her friends in danger. I can't blame them for that, because no one expects that to happen, but the fact that she didn't even notice what was going on really shows how out of touch she can be at times.

During Buffy's isolation Willow met Tara and their relationship developed. Willow does deserve some of the blame here, because she put a lot of her energy into her and Tara's relationship, but I can't blame her as much, because like Buffy said Willow was going through a huge change in her life.

All of these divisions were exploited by Spike who played off each of the group's fears. He played on Xander's feelings of uselessness, which is something Cordy did in "Zeppo." His manipulation of Giles was fairly similar to what he did with Xander. His work with Willow, was brilliant. He saw that she and Tara were a couple and framed his comments in such a way that it made it seem like Buffy and the others were attack both Willow's relationship and her studying Wicca. That being said, I don't think Spike created these problems, he merely brought them to the surface. In "New Moon Rising" I got the feeling that while Buffy tolerated Willow's relationship with Tara she did not accept it and there is a rather large difference between those two things. Xander showed signs of fears of being useless a lot in this season and the others didn't do enough to help him realize how much they cared. Now on to individual characters.


Willow- She's still my favorite. I really enjoyed her development throughout this season and she was one of the things that really helped it along. Seeing her break up with Oz, get past him and meet Tara was great. She is also growing into a very powerful witch. Watching her get over Oz was very well done and felt authentic.

Giles- Sadly he and Xander don't have much of a role this season, but he did have a few moments. Him being turned into a demon was great episode and I loved hearing him sing (was that his actual voice?)

Buffy- She kind of annoyed me this season, mainly because of her choice in men. I do not like Riley and she was with him way too much. However, I did enjoy watching her grow and move on beyond Angel.

I do feel like she wasn't the best of friends this season. Once again, her attitude towards Wilow and Tara seemed to be more one of uneasy tolerance than acceptance, and while that may be all that we can ask of society as a whole, I think we deserve better than mere tolerance from our closest friends.

Tara- I'm really liking her so far and am going to enjoy watching her and Willow's relationship grow. Count me firmly in the Tillow camp.

Riley- I hate you, that is all. Seriously, he is dull and boring. If he stays around much longer I'm going to turn into a Bangel fan.

Spke- He and Willow saved this season. He was so funny. There are so many great scenes of him I can't list them all. Character wise he is very slowly developing from a villain into an reluctant anti-hero.

Xander- He was in a similar boat as Giles. He didn't play much of a role and was underused in my opinion.

Faith-It was great seeing her again. One thing I don't get though, in the church fight why does she call Buffy sick and murderous? Is she losing herself to whatever part of Buffy's mind remained in her body?

Oz- I hated seeing him leave, I wish he could have stuck around just as a friend to Willow, but I understand why he had to go.

Adam- He was boring and dull. I really didn't like him. He had no charisma and wasn't frightening either. Sure none of the other villains have been scary really, but they had a lot of charisma.

As to individual episodes there were a few that stood out.

Hush- It was great from an artistic standpoint. I love the poem at the start of it. It also was the first sign of Tillow.

Wild at Heart- This was a great episode and was a great way to end Willow and Oz's relationship. You could tell Willow was really hurt when Oz left and he was too. I hated Veronica or whatever her name was.

Something Blue- This episode had me laughing the entire time. Seeing Buffy and Xander plan their marriage was so funny.

Yoko Factor- This was great. I really liked watching Spike manipulate the gang. Also seeing Xander and (drunk) Giles's reaction to finding out Willow was gay was kind of funny. "Bloody Hell."

New Moon Rising- I'm sorry Hush fans, but I enjoyed this one more. It isn't as artistic, but it was had great character moments. Willow telling Buffy her feelings for Tara, Oz trying to win Willow back. Willow talking about meeting Oz in Istanbul. My favorite scene was at the end though. I loved when Willow brought Tara the extra flamey candle and told her she loved her. It was very emotional.

Overall if I had to sum up the theme of this season in one word "growth" The characters all had to grow and accept things about themselves and their friends they may not have wanted to.

I hope you all enjoyed reading my thoughts and I'm looking forward to reading what you all have to see. I'm especially curious to know if you all agree or disagree with me on my character analysis and spillting of the Scooby Gang. Anyway I hope you all enjoyed it.

S4 is defintely one of the lesser seasons, mainly for the reasons you listed (Plot being boring, Adam not as good as the previous 3), but yes, it does have some gems.

Yes, as far as I know, that is Anthony Stewart Head singing in those episodes. I believe he also has a few albums out in real life.

As for your opinion on Riley, I one-hundred percent agree. Welcome to the "We Hate Riley" club 😛 Go Bangel, you know you want to 😛

Regarding Faith, the reason she called Buffy that is because she was seeing her own body, and the feelings of guilt that *SPOILER* later coming out during Angel S1 *SPOILER ENDED* are already starting to overtake her.
 
[MENTION=11975]Always Bangel[/MENTION] I am watching Angel, I'm on episode 21 right now. I'll make a thread about it when I get done, but I'll say briefly that I didn't like it as much as Buffy and that I think episode 9 and beyond are in general a lot better than the ones before that.
 
Giles- Sadly he and Xander don't have much of a role this season, but he did have a few moments. Him being turned into a demon was great episode and I loved hearing him sing (was that his actual voice?)
[...]
Xander- He was in a similar boat as Giles. He didn't play much of a role and was underused in my opinion.
I think the scenes with Giles and Xander are mainly for the comedic elements of the show. There's not much character development but some of the scenes are hilarious! And yes, that's his real voice. He's an awesome singer!

Riley- I hate you, that is all. Seriously, he is dull and boring. If he stays around much longer I'm going to turn into a Bangel fan.
I think he was okay at the beginning, when we didn't know he was with the Initiative. He was actually a pretty normal guy. But then he became annoying.

Adam- He was boring and dull. I really didn't like him. He had no charisma and wasn't frightening either. Sure none of the other villains have been scary really, but they had a lot of charisma.
He's a piece of crap. Worst thing of the series, seriously. I hate him.
 
[MENTION=10438]JCoatsworth[/MENTION] You highlight the biggest problem with Riley. I didn't mind him when he was just a normal guy. He was kind of boring, but it was okay and what Buffy needed. She didn't need a commando and he had no excuse for being that boring when he was a commando.
 
JCoatsworth
JCoatsworth
What did you think about professor Walsh? I hated her.
Its one of those seasons (to me) that as a whole its just not very good. However, once you zoom in at all the characters, and how far the story has come, and the episodes themselves, the season is really great. However, I think most people are either side-swiped or overwelmed with the Government/Military invovlement in the show. While, it was probably a pretty cool idea on paper or during the pre-stages of the show.. it isn't that great. And honestly, it took a second time around for me to like Riley 🙂
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
[No message]
R
Robb Stark
Maybe the sum is less than the value of the parts
Someone asked me about Walsh. I thought she was a lame villain, and a really bad professor. I'm in college and I've never heard of a professor telling a student who missed a single class to never come back and failing them. I know its a minor crime of hers, but still she should not be teaching.
 
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