S7E15 Potentials, Death and Buffy

[Nix]

Just watching this episode now and it's got me thinking. The First succeeds in making one of the potentials hang themselves and then you see Buffy digging her grave (well finishing it anyway). What about notifying the poor girls family? Do the potentials have family? How does Buffy get away with burying them without anyone knowing? Is what she does right or wrong?

Sorry I has a few questions and I'm sorry if it has already been discussed.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

How does anything resembling normal occur in Sunnydale? Someone dies a violent death and the police are usually not called unless it is part of the drama of a story, no autopsy is performed and as Mr. Trick noted earlier, the death rate is high and nobody is doing boo about it. People who are family members disappear nad nothing seems to happen. Going back to the beginning, Jesse had parents - did they not notice he was gone?

I think you have to take it as part of the suspension of disbelief that is part of any story that has no way to be real.

 

[Lyri]

We know from Kendra - and possible Vi and Norah - that Potentials are sometimes taken from their families when they're really young, so I would imagine that the Council have to tell them something to get access to their daughter, and they'll need to take legal guardianship away from the parents. Maybe it's 's magic, a spell that makes the families forget they had a daughter altogether.

As for Buffy and Chloe, I'm not really sure she was in the right frame of mind to be thinking of the girl's parents or family. They weren't girls to her at that point, weren't children - they were soldiers in her army, disposable. It never occurred to her that there would be people missing these girls if they died.

 

[EVIL UU]

Buffy is a like horror B-movie, nothing ever makes any sense but that's OK because it's a B-movie, right? Grab some pop-corn and turn off your brain. The nonsense is part of the charm as the story after all is not meant to be taken seriously, it's just silly, brainless fun. There's just one problem, at some point the writers became pretentious enough to write stories that were expected to be taken seriously ( I'd say somewhere in season 5 ) and that's when the show stopped being a B-movie and turned into garbage, because when you write drama you can't get away with stuff you could in a B-movie, you can't expect your audience to use their brains and to keep them turned off at the same time, you know, have the cake and eat the cake.
[MENTION=208]Nix[/MENTION]

Do the potentials have family?

Of course they do. Here's what happens. On day, Chloe disappears without a trace. Her family spends years trying to find her and one day they finally succeed. Another girl tells them that some idiot with superpowers tried to turn their daughter/sister/etc. into a soldier in her private army and sadly, because of all the stress the poor kid took her own life. Then said idiot with superpowers threw her body into an unmarked grave, in a town that doesn't exist anymore, without notifying her loved ones.

Is what she does right or wrong?

Pretend for a second that Chloe is your kid. What do you think?

 

[Robb Stark]

Buffy is a like horror B-movie, nothing ever makes any sense but that's OK because it's a B-movie, right? Grab some pop-corn and turn off your brain. The nonsense is part of the charm as the story after all is not meant to be taken seriously, it's just silly, brainless fun. There's just one problem, at some point the writers became pretentious enough to write stories that were expected to be taken seriously ( I'd say somewhere in season 5 ) and that's when the show stopped being a B-movie and turned into garbage, because when you write drama you can't get away with stuff you could in a B-movie, you can't expect your audience to use their brains and to keep them turned off at the same time, you know, have the cake and eat the cake.

I don't know if this is totally fair. I think for the vast majority of the first five seasons or so, BTVS makes sense, and I think, with the exception of the brief trainwreck at the end of S4, Angel always does. I think that a big part of the problem is that Joss, while good, isn't that good, and he proved that with some of his decisions in S6-7. Most of the time, particularly in the early seasons, I felt like BTVS dealt expertly with tough topics, metaphor and the like. They didn't overreach and they were rarely preachy (although certainly they were at times, but I never felt like it was overbearing). But in S6 and 7, while I DID like those seasons, things changed, as you said.

I'm not sure why they changed, but suddenly it felt at times like BTVS was a soap-box for Joss' views on life, and he wasn't intelligent enough to portray them well or keep the story intact and logical. The story in the early seasons flowed and made sense, 99 percent of the time. Later on, it didn't. Joss seemed so intent on getting his own personal message across at times that he didn't always bother to have things make sense. In turn he obviously didn't realize that all that approach does it make your writing seem ham-handed.

Of course they do. Here's what happens. On day, Chloe disappears without a trace. Her family spends years trying to find her and one day they finally succeed. Another girl tells them that some idiot with superpowers tried to turn their daughter/sister/etc. into a soldier in her private army and sadly, because of all the stress the poor kid took her own life. Then said idiot with superpowers threw her body into an unmarked grave, in a town that doesn't exist anymore, without notifying her loved ones.



Pretend for a second that Chloe is your kid. What do you think?

Really good points. Perfect example of the overreaching.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Giles wanted Buffy to be a general, maybe she was starting to be and let her administration people deal with that ... Giles.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]

I think for the vast majority of the first five seasons or so, BTVS makes sense

The plots may make sense but the characters and more importantly, the setting does not. Sunnydale cannot possibly function as a town because of the combination of the low population and obscenely high death rate. I mean, there's more than 1 cemetery per 1000 people in Sunnydale, about 1000 times more than in the rest of the country. Ridiculous, but in a B-movie horror with B-movie horror inspired stories a B-movie horror setting is OK. The setting determines what kind of stories you can tell. For example, you can't just take My Little Pony and write a realistic, erotic thriller in that setting, it doesn't even matter how good the story is because man, they're freaking ponies just like you can't write stories that are meant to be grounded in reality and taken seriously in a setting that's not serious and not grounded in reality at all. Take Buffy's financial problems for instance. Willow can conjure balloons and shit but she can't conjure money? Or a ton of gold? In the setting the story takes place this is the most obvious, most simple solution. So I guess, Willow is a complete idiot or alternatively, the show expects us, the viewers to be not very bright. And this is why a chunk of season 5, season 6, 7 and the comics are mostly garbage, they try to tell stories that simply cannot work and make sense in the show's setting.

Most of the time, particularly in the early seasons, I felt like BTVS dealt expertly with tough topics, metaphor and the like.

Yes, by utilizing stories that worked in the setting.

 

[Robb Stark]

[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]


The plots may make sense but the characters and more importantly, the setting does not. Sunnydale cannot possibly function as a town because of the combination of the low population and obscenely high death rate. I mean, there's more than 1 cemetery per 1000 people in Sunnydale, about 1000 times more than in the rest of the country. Ridiculous, but in a B-movie horror with B-movie horror inspired stories a B-movie horror setting is OK. The setting determines what kind of stories you can tell. For example, you can't just take My Little Pony and write a realistic, erotic thriller in that setting, it doesn't even matter how good the story is because man, they're freaking ponies just like you can't write stories that are meant to be grounded in reality and taken seriously in a setting that's not serious and not grounded in reality at all. Take Buffy's financial problems for instance. Willow can conjure balloons and shit but she can't conjure money? Or a ton of gold? In the setting the story takes place this is the most obvious, most simple solution. So I guess, Willow is a complete idiot or alternatively, the show expects us, the viewers to be not very bright. And this is why a chunk of season 5, season 6, 7 and the comics are mostly garbage, they try to tell stories that simply cannot work and make sense in the show's setting.



Yes, by utilizing stories that worked in the setting.

You know, excellent point. I hadn't really thought of it in that light. I know for the first part of your post, I rationalize it by saying that the government (as we see in S3 and 4) obviously knows about Sunnydale, and that's why the U.S. National Guard hasn't stormed into the place and eradicated all the vampires around. Not really sure why they haven't, but you get my point. Similarly with Willow, her powers for the first three seasons, other that special occasions where she exceeds what everyone expects her to be capable of, are pretty limited.

But you raise a really good point.

 

[Cohen]

But in S6 and 7, while I DID like those seasons, things changed, as you said.

I'm not sure why they changed, but suddenly it felt at times like BTVS was a soap-box for Joss' views on life, and he wasn't intelligent enough to portray them well or keep the story intact and logical. The story in the early seasons flowed and made sense, 99 percent of the time. Later on, it didn't. Joss seemed so intent on getting his own personal message across at times that he didn't always bother to have things make sense. In turn he obviously didn't realize that all that approach does it make your writing seem ham-handed.

To be fair, Marti Noxon was running the show on a much larger scale in s6 and 7. She was the day to day showrunner. Joss got the final say on things, but it was largely up to Marti.