San Bernardino shooting

ILLYRIAN

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There is a politician in Australia who is calling for America to be placed on the list of places not suitable for tourists to go.
If it does happen, how many other countries will follow suit.
It might help convince the NRA to keep its mouth shut.

News coming in about who and what the shooting is about.
 
There is something really fishy about it.. there certainly is more to it than is being reported.
 
Yes, for God's sake, PLEEEEEEEEASE let's not start another useless debate about gun control and the nasty ol' NRA and its millions of law abiding, gun owning members. It's worse than astronauts and cavemen, and Spuffy and Bangel all rolled into one tangled up package.
 
Sad. I hope they find the shooters.
I dont think they will find the shooters. They were heavily armed, riding in black SUVs, planted a bomb and wore body armor. They wont find the shooters; they were professionals and this is clearly a false flag. They may find someone to call the shooters though to appease the public.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
What do you mean by false flag? Like this is different than the typical mass shootings?
This is starting to get ridiculous and out of control. It's like every week there is a shooting. My mom was there at the hospital and luckily she is ok, but she's shaken up a bit. It's like it's not safe to go anywhere any more.
 
Blaze
Blaze
thank god your mom is safe xx
Sad. I hope they find the shooters. I hope our country does something besides argue about gun control.

This is starting to get ridiculous and out of control. It's like every week there is a shooting. My mom was there at the hospital and luckily she is ok, but she's shaken up a bit. It's like it's not safe to go anywhere any more.

Demonizing the opposition, whichever side of the gun control debate you're on, isn't going to solve the problem, as should be pretty obvious by this late date. At some point, the two sides are going to have to sit down together and honestly try and find a solution to the problem, and it is going to have to be one that has an honest chance of working without violating the rights of law abiding citizens. Until that happens, we're going to continue to debate, argue, complain, and whine, while sick individuals continue to make names for themselves by killing innocent people.
 
There is a politician in Australia who is calling for America to be placed on the list of places not suitable for tourists to go.

Now, there's a really terrifying thought. How long could our economy survive without Australian tourism?

I wonder if he's also wanting to do the same thing to the 5 countries who have higher per capita gun deaths than we do, despite all 5 of them having extremely restrictive laws dealing with the private ownership of firearms?

If You Look at This Chart of Top 10 Nations in the World for Mass Shootings - One Thing Jumps Out
 
Was it some politician trying to get noticed/remembered? That is what politicians do best isn't it?

Anyone know anything about what happened at where the shooting was?
 
Anyone know anything about what happened at where the shooting was?

From what little that I have heard, this wasn't the typical nut case spraying bullets in a random fashion until someone kills him. This was an organized, well planned attack. The shooters better equipped, with flack jackets (there's no such thing as a real bullet proof vest), a vehicle with designated driver, and a well planned, though not totally successful, escape plan.

Whatever Obama and the news media might say, this was apparently an actual terrorist attack, not just some whacko with an AR15.
 
I am so upset over the state of this country and all the mindless violence, and political fighting. I was born and raised in Lake Arrowhead in the San Bernardino Mountains, the same town that the father of 6 lived that was killed in this event. My sister knew his current wife in high school. San Bernardino has been struggling for a long time. The city is bankrupt, large homeless population, and a long history of gang related violence. My main frustration is that we can't even have a debate or research gun violence to come up with possible ways to prevent or curb the trend of massive gun related deaths. Our country is so divided, there is no more progress, only bickering.
 
Until the mainstream media starts to report the positive examples of 'gun violence' I don't see where the two sides will ever see eye to eye. When you only show one side of the story, it makes the people that support the other side less likely to acquiesce.
 
My main frustration is that we can't even have a debate or research gun violence to come up with possible ways to prevent or curb the trend of massive gun related deaths. Our country is so divided, there is no more progress, only bickering.

A lot of the problem is that the liberals keep hammering away at the proliferation of guns in our country, and emphasizing how so much of the problem can be blamed on the so called "assault" rifles, while the gun owners insist that there is no mechanical difference between an AR-15 or an AK-47 than any other more politically acceptable semiautomatic hunting rifle. If they can't reach an agreement on this one issue, why not just back away from that can of worms, and try and find some other course of action that everyone can agree and act upon? Sometimes, the solution isn't either to tunnel through the mountain, or climb over it, but to simply ignore the mountain altogether, and go around the damn thing.

Even if some agreeable alternative only works half as well as the liberals claim that the gun legislation would, that is still an improvement over what we we have now, and any improvement can be further refined to become even more effective. This single mindedness is killing more innocent people than all the guns in anybody's arsenal.

Why not do a referendum on gun laws? That'd be democratic and productive.

Mainly because, unlike almost every other country in the world, the United States recognizes, formally, in its Bill Of Rights, that all law abiding American Citizens have the guaranteed right to own firearms for the purpose of self defense. As long as that document and that article exists, our government can't just arbitrarily decide, or even call for a vote to determine, to require all firearms, or even all firearms of a particular type, to be either turned in or confiscated. The closest that the government can do is to ban any further production or import of certain type, such as the so called Brady Bill did. Everything already owned or or in dealers' inventory remains perfectly legal to sell or own. The closest thing to an exception to that law is that the individual states may, within their borders, apply certain regulations, as long as they don't violate the general language of the Bill of Rights (that was determined just recently, when Washington D C's total ban on civilian ownership of handguns for the purpose of self defense was overturned as being unconstitutional. D C still has the authority, however, to require gun owners to require a license to carry a handgun concealed outside someone's own personal property)

It has been argued that, because of he specific wording of Article 2 (A well regulated MILITIA being necessary to a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed) this specifically refers to either the standing Militia (National Guard) and not civilians, but the Bill of Rights recognizes the rights of the American people, and not any part or section of the State. Further, the term "militia" as of 1794, names "every able bodied man between the ages of 17 and 54, and all able bodied veterans, regardless of age, as being part of the militia, subject to being called to either state or federal service at any time." As long as Article 2 remains in effect, American citizens will have the right to own firearms. That is a fact, not an opinion, and a guarantee that laws such as exist in England and Australia can not be enacted here, and as long as the Bill of Rights exists, Article 2 will be a part of it.

Whether we approve of it or not, the Bill of Rights, and each of its Articles, are acknowledged rights given to all citizens by a Higher Power than even our government ("All men are created equal, and are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with certain INALIENABLE, or irrevocable, rights...") not just a list of government granted privileges.

(See, I told you not to get me started on the subject of gun control)
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Except for that Aussie politician that wants the UN to force us to alter our constitutional amendments to better please the rest of the world.
But isn't it rather silly to abide by an unalterable law that was written over two hundred years ago?

Back then the United States was a completely different place, a land of frontiers where it was actually very wise for every citizen to have a weapon, since there weren't even any proper armed forces or police.
 
Why not do a referendum on gun laws? That'd be democratic and productive.
Has been done a number of times at the state level. Problem being, people that want gun reform only gets campaign money from the people from the state. With the NRA that would oppose the issue, they can get money from the state and national with the campaign. If they lose at the state level (NRA), then they have to fight in all states: so they spend vast amounts of money to kill the issue. And if they do lose, they have the ability to fight in the federal courts for decades. By the time it is settled law, peopled have moved on.

Remember in 2004 a number of states changed their state laws to ban same sex marriage. Now, people have moved on and more or less accepted same sex marriage. If you asked a voted in a stated that supported one man and one woman marriage in 2004 why they were upset back in 2004 to support it they may come up with I changed my mind.

We can be upset with what happened in California, but, in a few days we will have a new mass shooting and forget about California. Do you recall what happen with the mass shooting a few weeks ago? If not, your not alone.
 
But isn't it rather silly to abide by an unalterable law that was written over two hundred years ago?

Back then the United States was a completely different place, a land of frontiers where it was actually very wise for every citizen to have a weapon, since there weren't even any proper armed forces or police.

If you really read the second amendment from a slave states point of view it makes more sense. Not all of the founding fathers were religious but they did understand the Bible. Say your in a slave state, you have studied the Bible, and some day President Washington will turn over power to the next president of the United States of America. What if that president wanted to be the next Moses and free the slaves from the south? All he has to do is call up the militia from the slaves states, and only asks for slaves from birth to death to be placed into the army. Then, order that army out of the slave states just to be posted in a free state. Then disband the army and tell them they are free to live were ever they want.

Recall the words "regulated militia" and "free state" in the amendment. If the president of the United States of America wanted to call up troops, before World War I, he had to get the approval of the state governors. In fact, it was not till during World War II, that troops were assigned to their state.
 
Wildfly
Wildfly
Thank you, it was very informative.
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