Saudi Witch

[nerd4hire]

I wonder what Willow would make of this one?

Pleas for condemned Saudi 'witch'

Human Rights Watch has appealed to Saudi Arabia to halt the execution of a woman convicted of witchcraft.

In a letter to King Abdullah, the rights group described the trial and conviction of Fawza Falih as a miscarriage of justice.

The illiterate woman was detained by religious police in 2005 and allegedly beaten and forced to fingerprint a confession that she could not read.

Among her accusers was a man who alleged she made him impotent.

Human Rights Watch said that Ms Falih had exhausted all her chances of appealing against her death sentence and she could only now be saved if King Abdullah intervened.

'Undefined' crime

The US-based group is asking the Saudi ruler to void Ms Falih's conviction and to bring charges against the religious police who detained her and are alleged to have mistreated her.

Its letter to King Abdullah says the woman was tried for the undefined crime of witchcraft and that her conviction was on the basis of the written statements of witnesses who said that she had bewitched them.

Human Rights Watch says the trial failed to meet the safeguards in the Saudi justice system.

The confession which the defendant was forced to fingerprint was not even read out to her, the group says.

Also Ms Falih and her representatives were not allowed to attend most of the hearings.

When an appeal court decided she should not be executed, the law courts imposed the death sentence again, arguing that it would be in the public interest.

 

[palabravampiress]

Wow. A modern day witch hunt. Haven't heard of one of these in awhile... at least not one involving an actual claim of witchyness. This is just weird. I feel sorry for the lady.

I wonder what the real scoop is. I wonder who came up with the witch idea and why the government types are promoting the idea.

 

[Joyce Summers]

I wonder what the real scoop is. I wonder who came up with the witch idea and why the government types are promoting the idea.

I suspect it's for the same reasons as it was back in the middle ages. If one had a political enemy, simply accuse them of witchcraft and they are out of the way. It's one of the main reasons fear and accusationss of witchcraft spread so quickly. Hate to get all Conspiracy Theory but maybe she knew something or too much as regards to the government and this is a silencing act. Don't know what goes on behind closed governments after all....

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I suspect it's for the same reasons as it was back in the middle ages. If one had a political enemy, simply accuse them of witchcraft and they are out of the way. It's one of the main reasons fear and accusationss of witchcraft spread so quickly. Hate to get all Conspiracy Theory but maybe she knew something or too much as regards to the government and this is a silencing act. Don't know what goes on behind closed governments after all....

I don't believe an illiterate poor woman would have 'political enemies' as such.

I think this is more a way for the Gov't types to keep the society she is from in line.

This is, however, the most despicable of crimes.

I cannot even begin to understand what this poor woman must be going through, in prison since 2005 for crimes she really didn't commit(lets be honest).

 

[nerd4hire]

This caught my eye...

The illiterate woman was detained by religious police in 2005 and allegedly beaten and forced to fingerprint a confession that she could not read.

Oh yeah, gotta get us some of that there Sharia Law.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

This caught my eye...



Oh yeah, gotta get us some of that there Sharia Law.

Move to England, the Arch Bishop of Canterbuty is trying to intergrate Sharia Law with our own.

 

[palabravampiress]

Move to England, the Arch Bishop of Canterbuty is trying to intergrate Sharia Law with our own.

I heard something to that effect before, but I also heard that it a slim-to-none chance of ever happening. I hope, for the sake of non-Muslim/non-Abrahamic British folks that that doesn't happen.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think it's fine to follow the laws of your religion. I think it's wrong to try to force those laws on the general public. Religion should be optional. When you start legislating it, then you start legislating thought... and then you start burning witches or engaging in other such terrorist nonsense, as history as proven time and time again. Private religious practice is often a vehicle for good. It encourages people to give to the poor and engage in other socially beneficial practices. Public religious practice, however, almost always becomes about political power and control, and that leads to some of humanity's worst recorded atrocities. It seems to me like people are generally safer and more free if their government shies away from religion than they are if their government actively supports or legislates it.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I heard something to that effect before, but I also heard that it a slim-to-none chance of ever happening. I hope, for the sake of non-Muslim/non-Abrahamic British folks that that doesn't happen.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think it's fine to follow the laws of your religion. I think it's wrong to try to force those laws on the general public. Religion should be optional. When you start legislating it, then you start legislating thought... and then you start burning witches or engaging in other such terrorist nonsense, as history as proven time and time again. Private religious practice is often a vehicle for good. It encourages people to give to the poor and engage in other socially beneficial practices. Public religious practice, however, almost always becomes about political power and control, and that leads to some of humanity's worst recorded atrocities. It seems to me like people are generally safer and more free if their government shies away from religion than they are if their government actively supports or legislates it.

To be fair to the AB of C(ohh I like that) I think he was trying to say that certain things we don't necessarily understand from other religions shouldn't be put into context of our laws if they don't fit.
Is it not wrong to judge one mans religious beliefs in a court of law solely on yours, especially when your land is a vastly multicultural society?

Having said that, the key issues that would be taken here are the kind of thing that are detrimental to the structure of the law in this country.
Where I believe the AB of C was trying to bring forth integration he only furthered the segregation.

I mean who decides which laws are ok and which aren't from a religion?

 

[palabravampiress]

To be fair to the AB of C(ohh I like that) I think he was trying to say that certain things we don't necessarily understand from other religions shouldn't be put into context of our laws if they don't fit.
Is it not wrong to judge one mans religious beliefs in a court of law solely on yours, especially when your land is a vastly multicultural society?

Having said that, the key issues that would be taken here are the kind of thing that are detrimental to the structure of the law in this country.
Where I believe the AB of C was trying to bring forth integration he only furthered the segregation.

I mean who decides which laws are ok and which aren't from a religion?

It's a juggling act, that's for sure. The problem with trying to integrate a little bit of each groups' traditions into one common law, however, is that you then start to either encroach on the rights of others who do not claim membership in that group or segregate groups out into something like a "separate but equal" policy. While I agree that the AB of C's (I like that, too!) intentions were probably good, I don't really see how that idea can be implemented in a manner that promotes equality and harmony.

Also, I believe that outside groups that enter one society from another owe the new society a reasonable degree of assimilation. It's one thing to practice sharia law in one's own home or religious community. It's another to ask the majority to adopt sharia law in order to assimilate to the culture of a minority. Plenty of countries currently employ sharia law to varying degrees. Why, then, demand it from a country that does not employ sharia law instead of simply moving to a country that has your desired legal system? If sharia law is gradually adopted in England or in other nations as a result of the intermingling of two distinct groups as they meld into one another, then that's fine. Well, I don't think it's "fine," as I tend to think that the implementation of religious law almost always ends very, very badly. It is preferable to the alternative, though, which is to try to force the issue within a few generations. That, to me, seems bound to create conflict.

Basically, I think that if you're playing in someone else's house, you can't be too upset when they follow different house rules. I know it's a lot more complex than that, which is why I think the key is time. If English people want to adopt sharia law, they will do so voluntarily over time. The best way for supporters of that to achieve that result is to lead by example in their homes and religious communities rather than to attempt to force their beliefs on an unwilling majority. To do so by other means, well, that's just inviting danger and political strife.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Again Palabra, I find myself agreeing with you.

And your simplified 'someone elses house rule' is actually spot on.

I don't believe in tolerance, you shouldn't tolerate others beliefs and ways of life, you should accept and appreciate them for what they are (unless it is killing a woman because she is a 'witch' then still no tolerance but definitely no acceptance and appreciation) but then you shouldn't force yours or others on someone.

I am actually a religious person but I also believe that religion and law should be two separate things, just like religion and politics.

Religion only governs those who believe law/politics governs everybody.

When you start to mix them up, you go down a slippery slope we have seen far too often which starts as well meaning do-gooders turning into huge differences between peoples creating animosity, civil unrest and then war.