Scarier villain: Caleb or Angelus:
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Fuffy Baith
2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member
Hmm. S2 Angelus is scarier or creepier than S4 Angelus. So S2 Angelus is a better villain than Caleb. But I admit Caleb had a lot of good scary moments but we just get so little of him too late, and not enough back story to really build him up as a scary villain.
Angelus.
It's not even a question for me.
Caleb might be a misogynistic jackass, but at the end of the day, he didn't have any actual powers. He had to be 'merged' with The First before he became an actual threat to Buffy and the others. Angelus was a threat from the get go. He had Buffy beat multiple times and the only reason he didn't go through with it was because he wanted to make her suffer.
He almost ended the world, for crying out loud!
It's not even a question for me.
Caleb might be a misogynistic jackass, but at the end of the day, he didn't have any actual powers. He had to be 'merged' with The First before he became an actual threat to Buffy and the others. Angelus was a threat from the get go. He had Buffy beat multiple times and the only reason he didn't go through with it was because he wanted to make her suffer.
He almost ended the world, for crying out loud!
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
Hmn, tricky.
The thing is Angelus is basically a coward. He only goes after somebody if they're weak/unpowered, or if he knows he has the advantage over them (like he often did with Buffy in S2- Angelus knew on some level that he she was unable to kiil him unless the stakes were changed. Or like with Faith when she was badly injured).
Angelus likes to stalk his prey, sadistically, and then kill them.
But if there's even a chance they could turn the tables on him (in his opinion) then he'd stear well clear.
Caleb is similar in some ways (sadistic, stalker of innocents, possibly a rapist) but he isn't a coward. He was quite content to revel in taking on Buffy, Spike and Faith in the wine cellar, savouring all the terror he caused before gouging Xander's eye out.
He is far, far stupider though, since unlike Angelus, he doesn't take an opening when he's clearly given it- he'll just gloat and walk away and draw it out. Dumb.
So really, its down to personal preference, which performance you find creepier. If you want the guy who will get you at your weakest, or the guy who will overpower you with brute strength.
Myself, I'd say Angelus, just from DB's performance really. Most people in the Buffy-verse are just normal people, and if he targeted you, you really were screwed.
Plus, Angelus is his own boss, not a glorified flunkie. 🙂
The thing is Angelus is basically a coward. He only goes after somebody if they're weak/unpowered, or if he knows he has the advantage over them (like he often did with Buffy in S2- Angelus knew on some level that he she was unable to kiil him unless the stakes were changed. Or like with Faith when she was badly injured).
Angelus likes to stalk his prey, sadistically, and then kill them.
But if there's even a chance they could turn the tables on him (in his opinion) then he'd stear well clear.
Caleb is similar in some ways (sadistic, stalker of innocents, possibly a rapist) but he isn't a coward. He was quite content to revel in taking on Buffy, Spike and Faith in the wine cellar, savouring all the terror he caused before gouging Xander's eye out.
He is far, far stupider though, since unlike Angelus, he doesn't take an opening when he's clearly given it- he'll just gloat and walk away and draw it out. Dumb.
So really, its down to personal preference, which performance you find creepier. If you want the guy who will get you at your weakest, or the guy who will overpower you with brute strength.
Myself, I'd say Angelus, just from DB's performance really. Most people in the Buffy-verse are just normal people, and if he targeted you, you really were screwed.
Plus, Angelus is his own boss, not a glorified flunkie. 🙂
YummySushiPJs
Scooby
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2011
- Messages
- 543
I'm not into Caleb at all to be honest, and I don't get what Joss "sees" in him (you just know he'd have made Caleb a bigger character given more time). To be totally honest, he kinda ruined the latter half of season 7 for me. After the intrusion of the potentials, and then Principal Wood, he was yet one more character taking way too much screentime away from the scoobies.
Angelus was an *excellent* villain. Probably one of the best in the whole series, and this is coming from someone who prefers season 4 onwards in general.
Angelus was an *excellent* villain. Probably one of the best in the whole series, and this is coming from someone who prefers season 4 onwards in general.
white avenger
white avenger
Angelus was just another vampire, though more diabolical and cruel than the others, who played Buffy's affections for Angel to his advantage. With all of that, however, he was, still, one of the things that Buffy routinely fought. Nothing new, once she got past the, "Yes, but he used to be my snuggle puppy," phase. Heart breaking, possibly, but still, just a very evil vampire who tried to psych the Slayer out. Not really super scary.
Caleb, however, was something entirely new and totally unexpected. A super powered human, commanding an army of Seekers, who could mystically bond with the most powerful enemy they had ever faced. Add to that, he managed to for all practical purposes destroy the Watchers' organization, kill the last Guardian, and very nearly annihilate the Slayer line and steal the Slayer's mystical weapon, the Scythe. That's the stuff of recurring nightmares.
Caleb, however, was something entirely new and totally unexpected. A super powered human, commanding an army of Seekers, who could mystically bond with the most powerful enemy they had ever faced. Add to that, he managed to for all practical purposes destroy the Watchers' organization, kill the last Guardian, and very nearly annihilate the Slayer line and steal the Slayer's mystical weapon, the Scythe. That's the stuff of recurring nightmares.
Ethan Reigns
Angel was a known quantity whereas Caleb was something no one had seen before.
Fuffy Baith
2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member
I agree that Caleb took up too much time. There were a lot of scenes with him and The First, I think trying to show how crazy and evil he is, but just reminded me of the boring Adam monologues in S4. I'm thinking Caleb would have been better if they either spent more time building him up, or cut some of those boring scenes. With Angelus, he was always interesting and engaging even when he's just talking to Dru and Spike.
MarlieTheSlayer
Bangel shipper
Angelus was way scarier in my opinion, but I am a Bangel shipper so Angelus torturing Buffy was a nightmare to me.
I watched season 2 for the first time when I was 10 years old and remember being scared that he would never get his soul back.
Caleb also frightened me, but not as much as Angelus. Sure he was stronger and was a real threat, but with Angelus I was scared that A: He would kill the scoobies, B: Buffy would kill him.
Do I even make any sense at all lol? Sorry for my bad English 😳
I watched season 2 for the first time when I was 10 years old and remember being scared that he would never get his soul back.
Caleb also frightened me, but not as much as Angelus. Sure he was stronger and was a real threat, but with Angelus I was scared that A: He would kill the scoobies, B: Buffy would kill him.
Do I even make any sense at all lol? Sorry for my bad English 😳
YummySushiPJs
Scooby
- Joined
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Not at all, it makes perfect sense. That is another reason he made an interesting villain, because we cared about Angel and were worried he would die. This makes him unique in a sense compared to villains like Caleb.
TotallySpiked
Slaying
I loved them both as villains. Angelus was definately a scarier option because of a few reasons for me.
1. Angelus had a backstory- we knew that originally he was liam, he was Angelus, he was angel and then Angelus again. We knew how he used to be and what he had become. Makes the end result (Angelus) a lot scarier due to knowing the comparison between Angel.
2. Because of his love/obsession with Buffy- because his love turned into obsession when he turned into Angelus and knowing how monotonous he was with Dru, you know he wasn't joking around. It was makes him more human too because he cares about something. He's not a two dimensional which makes him unpredictable which is exciting.
3. Because of how Buffy felt about Angel. Buffy's love for Angel still lingered when he became Angelus and her heart was broken. This makes him a scarier villain because our heroin was tied to him. She had a personal interest in it and that makes you as an audience more invested.
4. That laugh. Seriously though. The evil Angelus laugh. I love it and it is terrifying all at the same time. I'm thinking more about Angel (the show) as opposed to Buffy. But yes, the laugh.
1. Angelus had a backstory- we knew that originally he was liam, he was Angelus, he was angel and then Angelus again. We knew how he used to be and what he had become. Makes the end result (Angelus) a lot scarier due to knowing the comparison between Angel.
2. Because of his love/obsession with Buffy- because his love turned into obsession when he turned into Angelus and knowing how monotonous he was with Dru, you know he wasn't joking around. It was makes him more human too because he cares about something. He's not a two dimensional which makes him unpredictable which is exciting.
3. Because of how Buffy felt about Angel. Buffy's love for Angel still lingered when he became Angelus and her heart was broken. This makes him a scarier villain because our heroin was tied to him. She had a personal interest in it and that makes you as an audience more invested.
4. That laugh. Seriously though. The evil Angelus laugh. I love it and it is terrifying all at the same time. I'm thinking more about Angel (the show) as opposed to Buffy. But yes, the laugh.
RomanticSoul
Frell Me
Caleb only scared me in so far as that I was afraid for my eyeballs. Every time he opened his mouth they were rolling so far into the back of my head I was sure they would pop out. And having to look for your eyeballs when you can't see is a frightening concept.
Angelus never scared me. I was a little creeped out by his effective stalking in Passion but that was the point of the episode. I usually just find him hilarious.
So I guess neither one scared me at all.
Angelus never scared me. I was a little creeped out by his effective stalking in Passion but that was the point of the episode. I usually just find him hilarious.
So I guess neither one scared me at all.
AnthonyCordova
By suffering, learning
The scariest things for me are rooted in the psychological somehow.
Caleb is straight forward. Angelus is manipulative and wants to break you down and make you truly fear first before killing you (psychology). That's part of the 'art' for him. So I'm much inclined to say Angelus.
To @RomanticSoul I would say, I am thinking of the question in terms of existing in the show. I find Angelus very amusing sometimes too, but that is with the distance of being outside the show and just being a part of the audience as spectator. Inside the show? Angelus would be scarier to have to deal with than Caleb, especially without powers, for the psychological factor that I mentioned (for me).
Caleb is straight forward. Angelus is manipulative and wants to break you down and make you truly fear first before killing you (psychology). That's part of the 'art' for him. So I'm much inclined to say Angelus.
To @RomanticSoul I would say, I am thinking of the question in terms of existing in the show. I find Angelus very amusing sometimes too, but that is with the distance of being outside the show and just being a part of the audience as spectator. Inside the show? Angelus would be scarier to have to deal with than Caleb, especially without powers, for the psychological factor that I mentioned (for me).
RomanticSoul
Frell Me
It's true but I know I'm outside the story. So fictional villains don't tend to scare me at all anymore. When I was younger sure. But certainly none on Buffy that I can remember. There are real world villains that have given me serious nightmares (Ariel Castro for example being a more recent one...and please if anyone reads this and doesn't know who he is...don't go looking too much into the story specially if you are young). Compared to that I find fictional villains a cakewalk.
If I think about it from the characters POVs I'm sure Angelus is scarier. He wears the face of someone they know and the psychological terror is more frightening than brute force punches of a preacher who got his strenght from a windbag.
AnthonyCordova
By suffering, learning
@RomanticSoul I agree, fictional villains aren't scary because we know they are not real, but then there is no point to asking the question of the thread, because I doubt anyone is literally scared when they watch Buffy (and we all know they are not real). I thought the thread was an exercise in imagination. If we try to really imagine ourselves inside the show as characters, than we both agree it seems, Angelus would be scarier.
SiegePerilous02
Potential
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2014
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- 288
Angelus all the way. The psychological factor of such a brilliant sadist wearing your lover's face can't be topped, plus his killing of Jenny is probably the most painful main character death in the entire series.
Caleb and the First lost all credibility when they unearthed the one weapon Buffy needed to defeat them and then told her exactly where it was. There's overconfidence and then there's eligibility for the Darwin Awards. This was the latter. And the over-the-top misogyny Caleb embodied was played out with Warren.
Caleb and the First lost all credibility when they unearthed the one weapon Buffy needed to defeat them and then told her exactly where it was. There's overconfidence and then there's eligibility for the Darwin Awards. This was the latter. And the over-the-top misogyny Caleb embodied was played out with Warren.